HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Sabres announce coaching changes (Sacco, Forton, Numminen, Corsi)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-16-2014, 03:31 PM
  #51
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leelee Phoenix View Post
I think work ethic matters. Beyond that, I disagree with many Buffalo fans.

Just because Nolan mentions working hard and compete level often, doesn't mean that translates to the team on the ice. And this year, I see zero proof of them working harder. There's still a lot of passengers on this team. And don't start with 'accountability', that's just bloviating loser talk that I've had more than enough of with the other Buffalo pro team. Want to be accountable? Win. None of you are, so shut up.

When we get to "blue-collar", "lunch pail", then we're hitting idiot talk that I openly mock. Meaningless garbage comparing yourself to people with awful jobs, and not-so-thinly veiled racism.

The fact that you "see zero proof" is all the proof I need to know it's the exact opposite. But to support that I can remember alllllll the way back to the Rolston era and compare it to the last few months. But hey, nothing and no one will convince you otherwise so keep chugging along day after day with that tired blind opinion.

ZZamboni is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 03:31 PM
  #52
CriminallyVu1gar
LGBTerrific
 
CriminallyVu1gar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeThatTootoo View Post
Most people see what they want to see or what they've been told.

I still maintain that Nolan is/was no better than Rolston.
I'll take on the challenge of proving something somewhat definitively. It won't be certain because people will insist on things like effort that will be seen a million different ways, and the rosters were certainly different, but an in depth analysis should be illuminating.

CriminallyVu1gar is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 03:32 PM
  #53
dire wolf
be cool
 
dire wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cali
Country: United States
Posts: 4,462
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeThatTootoo View Post
Most people see what they want to see or what they've been told.

I still maintain that Nolan is/was no better than Rolston.

I also do find it genius that Buffalo has been sold on "compete" and "grit", and eventually Nolan will be the savior of the Sabres when he is let go or the contract not renewed.

When in fact any Joe Schmo could drive this dumpster fire to the bottom of the standings.
I'm sorry, but that's just bizarre to me. I can't understand how you can possibly make that observation.

dire wolf is online now  
Old
04-16-2014, 03:39 PM
  #54
TakeThatTootoo
Gare's "Partner"
 
TakeThatTootoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dire wolf View Post
I'm sorry, but that's just bizarre to me. I can't understand how you can possibly make that observation.
Why?

He was 4-15-1 the first 20 games of the season. Of those 20 games, how many were against non-playoff teams? Thats right, 4. Darcy made this team bad, not the coach.

TakeThatTootoo is online now  
Old
04-16-2014, 03:42 PM
  #55
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeThatTootoo View Post
Why?

He was 4-15-1 the first 20 games of the season. Of those 20 games, how many were against non-playoff teams? Thats right, 4. Darcy made this team bad, not the coach.
so do you not take roster into account at all? If Nolan coached the Blackhawks, would the record be close to the Sabres? Of course not, right?

ZZamboni is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 03:48 PM
  #56
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 35,547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeThatTootoo View Post
Most people see what they want to see
demonstrate please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeThatTootoo View Post
I still maintain that Nolan is/was no better than Rolston.
Thank you!


Jame is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 03:49 PM
  #57
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 35,547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeThatTootoo View Post
Why?

He was 4-15-1 the first 20 games of the season. Of those 20 games, how many were against non-playoff teams?
I know when I look at the ice, a win/loss record is what I see

Jame is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 03:50 PM
  #58
TakeThatTootoo
Gare's "Partner"
 
TakeThatTootoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
demonstrate please?



Thank you!

Demonstrate to me that Nolan is a better coach. Then you can laugh all you want.

TakeThatTootoo is online now  
Old
04-16-2014, 03:52 PM
  #59
Connor McDavid
Generational Poster
 
Connor McDavid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 12,079
vCash: 436
Does anyone have the advanced metrics handy for Rolston v Nolan

Connor McDavid is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 03:54 PM
  #60
1point21Gigawatts
hell's a gigawatt?
 
1point21Gigawatts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The future
Country: United States
Posts: 1,389
vCash: 500
Just jumping in here, but let's assume that Nolan is/was no better than Rolston. Then Rolston's biggest transgression is agreeing to make an all rookie (mostly) NHL team. Rushing youth development is a great way to ruin your prospects and become Edmonton Oilers 2.0. Nolan at least had the sense to recognize that youth players should be playing in their appropriate leagues (be it juniors or AHL).

1point21Gigawatts is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 03:55 PM
  #61
TakeThatTootoo
Gare's "Partner"
 
TakeThatTootoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1point21Gigawatts View Post
Just jumping in here, but let's assume that Nolan is/was no better than Rolston. Then Rolston's biggest transgression is agreeing to make an all rookie (mostly) NHL team. Rushing youth development is a great way to ruin your prospects and become Edmonton Oilers 2.0. Nolan at least had the sense to recognize that youth players should be playing in their appropriate leagues (be it juniors or AHL).
That wasn't Rolston's decision. That was Darcy's.

I agree that the youth/rookie NHL team was a disaster and Rolston paid dearly for it. He was elevated to an NHL head coach position too soon and Darcy ruined him.

TakeThatTootoo is online now  
Old
04-16-2014, 03:55 PM
  #62
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 35,547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeThatTootoo View Post
Demonstrate to me that Nolan is a better coach. Then you can laugh all you want.
demonstration : the 2013/14 season

Jame is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:01 PM
  #63
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 35,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
Right, and I'm referring to a fan mentality that has existed for a long time that Nolan fans. That's (I think) largely what SBA is referring to as well, the lightning rod just happens to be Ted Nolan himself at this point.
I'll try one more time. We (sba and I) have been arguing over Nolan for months. Thats what this is about. He's been trying to hide behind the fans in recent attacks but its always about Nolan.

As proof his last post with the sign off that he is very excited about Murray's plans. What would that be you ask? Well it would be to suck for a franchise player because Nolan sucks as a coach but will keep the apes happy with effort. Then Murray will hire a real coach. Yes he said real coach.

Maybe now you will understand we have a long standing back and forth and you will stop trying to explain to me what its about

joshjull is online now  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:03 PM
  #64
La Cosa Nostra
FIRE MURRAY
 
La Cosa Nostra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre the Win View Post
and look what he did for Sabres goaltending. Why the hate man?
What "he did" for Sabres goaltending ? NOTHING. The 2 main starters throughout his whole tenure were Hasek; best goalie ever and Miller, elite Vezina winner. Not hard to look good when you got elite goalies. What did Corsi do for Mika Noronen, the One time voted best prospect in the NHL? What has he done for Enroth? Biron was nothing more then a top 20-25 goalie with Corsi. Bye Corsi, lets get a much better goalie coach.

La Cosa Nostra is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:06 PM
  #65
Buffaloed
Administrator
Webmaster
 
Buffaloed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 24,956
vCash: 1738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibbler View Post
Right, but our goaltenders were pretty good with him around...
I don't think he did a good job developing Biron and Noronen. I think everyone expected more from those two. He failed big time with Dwayne Roloson.

Buffaloed is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:08 PM
  #66
sba
....
 
sba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Islip Terrace, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,528
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to sba
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I'll try one more time. We (sba and I) have been arguing over Nolan for months. Thats what this is about. He's been trying to hide behind the fans in recent attacks but its always about Nolan.

As proof his last post with the sign off that he is very excited about Murray's plans. What would that be you ask? Well it would be to suck for a franchise player because Nolan sucks as a coach but will keep the apes happy with effort. Then Murray will hire a real coach. Yes he said real coach.

Maybe now you will understand we have a long standing back and forth and you will stop trying to explain to me what its about
I don't think Nolan is a very good coach, true. I don't like his blue collar horsecrap, true.

I'm not really hiding behind that. There's plenty of evidence to why he's a bad coach...He's a former Jack Adams winner who couldn't keep consistent NHL jobs. That's a big red flag on him. Maybe I sensationalize some of the faults he has...but firing a guy like Corsi, who's coached the hell out of the goalies we've had come through here so he can (probably) bring in Arturs Irbe - one of his Latvian buddies - reeks of classic Nolan to me.

There's something to be said about him though, players seem to love him. Even his former guys are enamored with him to this day.

It's fine, he's not going to hurt anything for this team. He's going to help a lot, he's going to guide us to a great chance at McDavid/Eichel and instill work ethic into the younger guys.

It's a win/win. But I guarantee when they turn the corner, Murray is done with him.

sba is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:09 PM
  #67
Beerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Beerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 14,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leelee Phoenix View Post
I think work ethic matters. Beyond that, I disagree with many Buffalo fans.

Just because Nolan mentions working hard and compete level often, doesn't mean that translates to the team on the ice. And this year, I see zero proof of them working harder. There's still a lot of passengers on this team. And don't start with 'accountability', that's just bloviating loser talk that I've had more than enough of with the other Buffalo pro team. Want to be accountable? Win. None of you are, so shut up.

When we get to "blue-collar", "lunch pail", then we're hitting idiot talk that I openly mock. Meaningless garbage comparing yourself to people with awful jobs, and not-so-thinly veiled racism.
That's one strange observation.

Beerz is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:09 PM
  #68
sba
....
 
sba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Islip Terrace, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,528
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to sba
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed View Post
He failed big time with Dwayne Roloson.
Former all-star, consistent NHL starter for like a decade after Corsi coached him?

sba is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:11 PM
  #69
Beerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Beerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 14,895
vCash: 500
i didn't even know this Forton guy was an Ass. Coach...

Beerz is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:12 PM
  #70
Sabresfansince1980
Registered User
 
Sabresfansince1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: from Wheatfield, NY
Country: Germany
Posts: 3,259
vCash: 500
Why bother arguing over who was better between Rolston and Nolan?

Rolston was given a rookie roster, and made things worse with a passive game plan that nobody enjoyed playing. It made for the most noncompetitive Sabre team I ever watched.

Que Nolan, a more likable guy for sure, but lacking in game planning and/or in-game tactics. The guys want to play hard for him for sure, but they were barely any better the rest of the way, and much of the small difference can be attributed to sending rookies down in favor of signing vets.

If Nolan can bring in a bunch of savvy assistants and get a sound technical game plan in motion on the ice, then great. If not, I figure he doesn't deserve to stay long and probably won't. We'll see.

Sabresfansince1980 is online now  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:13 PM
  #71
Rob Paxon
⚔Z E M G U S⚔
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 20,720
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
I don't think Nolan is a very good coach, true. I don't like his blue collar horsecrap, true.

I'm not really hiding behind that. There's plenty of evidence to why he's a bad coach...He's a former Jack Adams winner who couldn't keep consistent NHL jobs. That's a big red flag on him. Maybe I sensationalize some of the faults he has...but firing a guy like Corsi, who's coached the hell out of the goalies we've had come through here so he can (probably) bring in Arturs Irbe - one of his Latvian buddies - reeks of classic Nolan to me.

There's something to be said about him though, players seem to love him. Even his former guys are enamored with him to this day.

It's fine, he's not going to hurt anything for this team. He's going to help a lot, he's going to guide us to a great chance at McDavid/Eichel and instill work ethic into the younger guys.

It's a win/win. But I guarantee when they turn the corner, Murray is done with him.
I don't think Nolan's a great coach either but I don't get grinding him down while pumping Corsi up. Buffalo had two exceptional goaltending talents, one of whom was already the best goalie in the world before Corsi came here and the other developed into an above-average starter. What happened to every other goalie who played here while Corsi coached? Not a single one of them was any good. Is that on Corsi? Who knows. He's probably at worst a decent goaltending coach, perhaps a good one, but the track record in Buffalo doesn't prove he's a good one.

Rob Paxon is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:15 PM
  #72
Beerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Beerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 14,895
vCash: 500
in an odd tid-bit ... Myers attributed his turn around this year to Corsi..

Beerz is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:16 PM
  #73
Connor McDavid
Generational Poster
 
Connor McDavid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 12,079
vCash: 436
It's mystifying that having a Vezina winning decade-long starter is evidence against Corsi

Connor McDavid is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:17 PM
  #74
sabrefan27
Registered User
 
sabrefan27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,887
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
I'm not really hiding behind that. There's plenty of evidence to why he's a bad coach...He's a former Jack Adams winner who couldn't keep consistent NHL jobs. That's a big red flag on him. Maybe I sensationalize some of the faults he has...but firing a guy like Corsi, who's coached the hell out of the goalies we've had come through here so he can (probably) bring in Arturs Irbe - one of his Latvian buddies - reeks of classic Nolan to me.

Oh god, the horror of a coach wanting to bring in his own guys. Giving Nolan crap about that reeks of such an agenda and bias that it's impossible to take seriously.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
It's fine, he's not going to hurt anything for this team. He's going to help a lot, he's going to guide us to a great chance at McDavid/Eichel and instill work ethic into the younger guys.
A lack of talent will do that, not Nolan. Ridiculous statement.

sabrefan27 is offline  
Old
04-16-2014, 04:17 PM
  #75
La Cosa Nostra
FIRE MURRAY
 
La Cosa Nostra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by drinking bleach irl View Post
It's mystifying that having a Vezina winning decade-long starter is evidence against Corsi
Because Miller was dominant ever before Corsi. He was going to be that good irregardless of his goaltending coach. Do you forget Miller was the most dominant goalie in recent NCAA history? And was a 40 win starter on the Amerks.

La Cosa Nostra is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:36 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.