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Old
03-04-2007, 03:29 PM
  #26
YOUTH OF HABS
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...

we are in our 11th year with Koivu on this team and 7th with Koivu as captain. we have made the playoffs 6 times will he has been on this team but never making it past the second round. there comes a time when you gotta look at the captain and the face of the team.

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03-04-2007, 03:38 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
Problem is, maybe that has something to do with the type of players habs management brings in, year after year, and the same inexerienced rookie coaches, every two years.

Carbs obviously has zero clue how to counteract whats happening on the ice. He hasn't been able to adjust to the oppositions game plan. The proof is on the ice. They play the same style whether they are desparate or not and roll 4 lines. Then to bring in questionable attitude, and inconsistent forwards like Kovalev, Samsonov, Czerkawski, Johnson, Dagenais, etc, a inconsistent goalie like Abby or over pay for a useless piece of crap like Theodore, and trade away a guy like Weinrich on the backend who was stabilizing force.

You can blame Koivu solely, but you have to look at the players brought in. And then to replace the captaincy with say Souray, well guess what Souray is already an assistant, with these types of conditions its not gonna all of sudden better with a C instead of an A on his jersey.
Great post. I was talking to one of my bros about this and has everyone has underacheived this season? Souray is the only one to exceed expectations. No one has even met expectations. Koivu is hovering around it but everyone else, even Markov have been a dissapointment. This is a good team if they could just do what is expected of them but we can't do it. We're stuck in a rut. Every year we barely make or miss the playoffs. Our defense is mediocre and our top 6 talent bare. I'm also not enamoured with the continuation of rookie french-canadian coaches. Carbop has been a huge deception this year. For a supposedly x and o guy, he hasn't adjusted our strategy once, even after the other team's funnel defense negated our offense night in and night out.

I've never been a fan of tanking it but we need a defense that can actually breakout effectively. An offense that doesn't depend on one line. What's the point of keeping an on the bubble team when if you could get a marquee player.

However this team could surprise everyone next year if they suddenly play up to their capabilities. That's what so frustrating. But I highly doubt it.

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03-04-2007, 03:48 PM
  #28
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When Koivu was putting up points, we were winning. And now, when he doesn't, we lose... Koivu is a great player, worth the money and a worthy captain, but he's not a superstar, so it's to be expected that he's going to have some rough patches... especially on THIS team. We have nobody that can step up and lead us to a win when when he hits these stretches. It sucks.

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03-04-2007, 03:52 PM
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Koivu is on pace for a 68 point season. And that'll make him our leading point getter this year. A lack of top end talent certainly is the problem.

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03-04-2007, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Koivu is on pace for a 68 point season. And that'll make him our leading point getter this year. A lack of top end talent certainly is the problem.
thats it right there, ON PACE for 68 !?

1 SIDNEY CROSBY PIT C 61 27 71 98
2 MARTIN ST. LOUIS TBL R 67 39 50 89
3 VINCENT LECAVALIER TBL C 67 42 46 88
4 DANY HEATLEY OTT R 65 40 44 84
5 MARC SAVARD BOS C 64 21 63 84
6 MARIAN HOSSA ATL R 66 36 46 82
7 JOE THORNTON SJS C 65 16 66 82
8 ALEXANDER OVECHKIN WSH L 66 38 42 80
9 DANIEL BRIERE BUF C 64 27 51 78
10 TEEMU SELANNE ANA R 66 38 39 77

Won't find a Montreal player in the TOP 50.

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03-04-2007, 04:06 PM
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Go defensive system go.

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03-04-2007, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUTH OF HABS View Post
we are in our 11th year with Koivu on this team and 7th with Koivu as captain. we have made the playoffs 6 times will he has been on this team but never making it past the second round. there comes a time when you gotta look at the captain and the face of the team.
By all means look at the captain and the face of the team. But you'd better be taking more than a passing glance at the rest of the team if you choose to look in the captains direction. He may not have got us past the 2nd round, but I can think of a couple of series against the Bruins where we wouldn' have got past them if it wasn't for Koivu (as well as a few other guys on certain occassions). He didn't get us past the 2nd round last year either. Then again, he is lucky he can still lead a normal life let alone play hockey after last year. The team had barely anything in the tank without Koivu. Sure the Canes got some fantastic goaltending from a kid, but it's not like the Habs made his job as difficult as it could have been.

And correct me if I'm wrong here, but the point of the playoffs is when the team has to work well together in order to succeed, right? And from what I've always been told, the most important guy in the playoffs is your goalie. Did Saku lead us to success in the playoffs? Clearly not. Is he the sole reason for that fact? IMO no and I can't think of a logical arguement for pinning all playoff successes and performances on the captain. Of course, you could argue that it's the captains job to make guys play their best and all pull together, but that likely only counts for so much when you consider all the other attributes that go into winning playoffs games. A teams players will still have their limitations regards how good a captain is at leading.

Could Koivu have done more to lead the Habs to greater successes during his time as team captain? Maybe - although in some situations I think he has done everything within his powers to help the team and gone far beyond expectations every now and again. But in reality the captain doesn't shoulder all the blame or responsibilty for what goes on out there. What about the other players? What about the coaching staff? What about the quality of the opposition? As I said at the top of the post, if you want to look at the captain in regards to playoff performances of the team, fair enough, but there is a great deal more to look at than solely a captain. And considering some of the teams he has captained in Montreal, I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone involved in the game or an expert on the game that would tell you that Saku had all the tools around him he needed to lead a team to the Stanley Cup.

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Won't find a Montreal player in the TOP 50.
Doesn't that say more about a team than about an individual?

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03-04-2007, 06:02 PM
  #33
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...

I just really think this team needs to step in a different direction is basically what i'm trying to get at.

If that is with or without Saku Koivu is up Bob Gainey.

The question I ask is how long do you stand by your captain if these are the results year after year ?

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03-04-2007, 07:18 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUTH OF HABS View Post
I just really think this team needs to step in a different direction is basically what i'm trying to get at.

If that is with or without Saku Koivu is up Bob Gainey.

The question I ask is how long do you stand by your captain if these are the results year after year ?
Again a lot of its up to Koivu who has a no trade clause.

The question is, how long does a player stand by his management if they don't bring in help year after year. You wonder why players don't come to Montreal, well, when you see the good ones leave is one reason to start with.

You are blaming Koivu for mismanagment of a team, which is not his job. Does Montreal need another Patrick Roy moment to get things right.

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03-04-2007, 07:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
Again a lot of its up to Koivu who has a no trade clause.

The question is, how long does a player stand by his management if they don't bring in help year after year. You wonder why players don't come to Montreal, well, when you see the good ones leave is one reason to start with.

You are blaming Koivu for mismanagment of a team, which is not his job. Does Montreal need another Patrick Roy moment to get things right.
No at the moment...we just need another Patrick Roy.

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03-04-2007, 08:39 PM
  #36
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Koivu ain't gettin' it done the last few months. I think his age and size are catching up with him. Tough for a 5'6" center to grind out 82 games.

If we're serious about building a contender then we have to at least investigate what he could fetch in a trade. (Minnesota ?)

Would we trade him for, say, Kopitar, straight up. Interesting thought, no ?

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03-04-2007, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs721 View Post
Koivu ain't gettin' it done the last few months. I think his age and size are catching up with him. Tough for a 5'6" center to grind out 82 games.

If we're serious about building a contender then we have to at least investigate what he could fetch in a trade. (Minnesota ?)

Would we trade him for, say, Kopitar, straight up. Interesting thought, no ?
L.A. would laugh us out of the NHL.

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03-04-2007, 08:46 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Habs721 View Post
Koivu ain't gettin' it done the last few months. I think his age and size are catching up with him. Tough for a 5'6" center to grind out 82 games.

If we're serious about building a contender then we have to at least investigate what he could fetch in a trade. (Minnesota ?)

Would we trade him for, say, Kopitar, straight up. Interesting thought, no ?
LA is rebuilding now, they would have no interest in Koivu or one of our older players.

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03-05-2007, 07:45 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs721 View Post
Koivu ain't gettin' it done the last few months. I think his age and size are catching up with him. Tough for a 5'6" center to grind out 82 games.

If we're serious about building a contender then we have to at least investigate what he could fetch in a trade. (Minnesota ?)

Would we trade him for, say, Kopitar, straight up. Interesting thought, no ?
No, its tough for any player, with very little support to grind it out for 82 games.

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03-05-2007, 08:34 AM
  #40
As the Glorious Weep
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Saku Koivu is god. Anyone doubting that will be smitten.

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03-05-2007, 10:53 AM
  #41
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Some facts about Koivu :

He's top 71 pts at best, 21 goals at best.
Not a 1rst line center unless you Koivu's fans are happy with a 25th-30th offensive NHL team.
Not so fast skater.
No stamina at all after 40 games. He seems older than 32 years old.
No hard shooting, my mother (or your's) in the goals would stop his shots.
Not an happy and communicative leader in the room with his teamates. The Team is still filled with small 'cliques' that are not commited to each other.
Way to much overpaid, his salary will be 5m$ next season.

So for all these reasons, Gainey shoul hire a group of lawers and lift his NTC. Koivu should be traded in a package deal interresting for a team in need of a second center. Then Gainey should offer 6M$/4 years contract to bring Daniel Brière (but it can be Gomez or Drury but not at the same salary). Brière (or Souray) would be the new captain of the team.

Go Bob GO !! DO IT !!!

Amen.

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03-05-2007, 06:18 PM
  #42
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by HABitude View Post
Some facts about Koivu :

He's top 71 pts at best, 21 goals at best.
Not a 1rst line center unless you Koivu's fans are happy with a 25th-30th offensive NHL team.
Not so fast skater.
No stamina at all after 40 games. He seems older than 32 years old.
No hard shooting, my mother (or your's) in the goals would stop his shots.
Not an happy and communicative leader in the room with his teamates. The Team is still filled with small 'cliques' that are not commited to each other.
Way to much overpaid, his salary will be 5m$ next season.

So for all these reasons, Gainey shoul hire a group of lawers and lift his NTC. Koivu should be traded in a package deal interresting for a team in need of a second center. Then Gainey should offer 6M$/4 years contract to bring Daniel Brière (but it can be Gomez or Drury but not at the same salary). Brière (or Souray) would be the new captain of the team.

Go Bob GO !! DO IT !!!

Amen.
I love these posts. Koivu sucks, but lets trade him and manage to get a better player from the deal. He sucks so much that no other gm knows but a few of us bashers, so they of course will bend over ass backwards and give us who ever we want.

Koivu the playmaker has more goals then most of the supposed goalscorers like Kovalev. What does that say?

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03-05-2007, 06:31 PM
  #43
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once again , the no-trade clause is just for few teams

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03-05-2007, 07:14 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUTH OF HABS View Post
we are in our 11th year with Koivu on this team and 7th with Koivu as captain. we have made the playoffs 6 times will he has been on this team but never making it past the second round. there comes a time when you gotta look at the captain and the face of the team.
if everyone on this team was like koivu we would have the cup every year

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03-05-2007, 10:36 PM
  #45
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SAKU SAKU SAKU SAKU SAKU SAKU SAKU SAKU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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