HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Sheldon Souray: Legitimate Norris Candidate?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-06-2007, 10:32 AM
  #1
Quiet Robert
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,262
vCash: 500
Sheldon Souray: Legitimate Norris Candidate?

Considering the season he's having, and the amount of Habs fans on these boards, I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed yet. At least to my knowledge it hasn't. Maybe with all the talk of trading him vs. not trading him, the talk about Gainey etc...this kind of got lost in the shuffle.

http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app

He's 2nd overall in points among dmen
55th overall in the league
1st overall in goals among dmen
1st in PP goals among dmen
2 OT Goals (2nd among dmen)
6 GWG goals (1st among dmen

Logs 23 mins a game.
198 shots


To be clear, I'm not saying he'll win, or is even going to be nominated, to me Lidstrom has it all but locked up, but it would be cool to see him nominated. Given that the Norris usually goes to an offensive defencemen, and the stage we're at in the season, I think there's a chance Souray might be nominated. There isn't much seperation however, and Niedermayer, Pronger, Gonchar and Boyle are all really close to him. I think there's a few things here. The goals are what sets Souray apart and but his +/- is what drags him down. If he reaches 30 goals (which hasn't been done in over 10 years) he might have a better case, but as it stands, he's probably in a McCabe-type position from last year.

Look, we all know his weaknesses, so there's no need to harp on those. We also know that he might make big bucks next year, this isn't about that. What I'm saying is that he's having a pretty impressive season and there's a chance he may get a nomination. Not a great chance, but you never know.

I guess the other thing to say is that we have an elite offensive dman in Souray this year and we're not recognizing it. He may not keep it up next year, and he may not be able to stay healthy for 82 games, but at the very least this season he's among the elite offensive defencemen. Alright so let's hear what you guys think.


Last edited by Quiet Robert: 03-06-2007 at 10:42 AM.
Quiet Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 10:35 AM
  #2
ChemiseBleuHonnete
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,377
vCash: 500
I wouldn't say he's good enough to be nominated. But he's a great player. He's always there for his teammates, he's a good leader, he's very solid on the PK, his transition game really got better and he's adequate defensively.

ChemiseBleuHonnete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 10:37 AM
  #3
Bobby Clark
Spicy Sausage
 
Bobby Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chez Bobby
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,101
vCash: 500
If this was still the 80's where D doesn't matter he would probably win it like Paul Coffey did.

Bobby Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 10:37 AM
  #4
Shabutie
Registered User
 
Shabutie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Portugal
Posts: 15,640
vCash: 500
He'll likely be nominated which will increase the dollar figure on his contract. I really really really hope we don't re-sign this guy. If we do, I'll have to question Gainey's sanity.

Shabutie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 10:38 AM
  #5
e-e
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: here
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,870
vCash: 500
he would have to dominate in his own zone to be considered for norris....he's not...not even close.

dmen like goncar, mcclown, sheldom,...who suck in defence will never win norris

e-e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 10:39 AM
  #6
brownman*
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,229
vCash: 500
No.

brownman* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 10:40 AM
  #7
Habs10Habs
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Habs10Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 52,248
vCash: 500
He has put up great numbers, but I think Lidstrom will have the Norris this year.

__________________
Don Cherry is right...you don't poke the bear..you walk right up to it and punch it in the mouth. - Grant McCagg
Habs10Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 10:54 AM
  #8
Puckhead58*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 500
The Norris trophy is for the Top Defencemen!!
Souray's defence is terrible and his plus/minus proves it. That alone will keep him from even being nominated. If he was a plus 20, then he would likely be nominated, but being a minus 19 won't do it!

Puckhead58* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 10:54 AM
  #9
Kafka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,097
vCash: 500
Ha ha ha! THe Norris is given to the best DEFENSMAN.

Kafka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 10:56 AM
  #10
coolguy21415
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 9,285
vCash: 500
It's possible he'll be nominated, if only because there aren't a lot of star defensive seasons happening this year (Nieds nor Pronger have been fantastic). Lidstrom already has the Norris sewn up, though.

__________________
This content is hosted here with the objections of the poster.
coolguy21415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 10:57 AM
  #11
Tricolore#20
Registered User
 
Tricolore#20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,169
vCash: 500
Considering that prior to Rivet getting traded, Souray and Rivet played the easiest minutes amongst Canadiens' defensemen (according to Sisu Hockey), I doubt Souray gets any consideration. The Dandenault/Bouillon pairing were playing tougher minutes than Souray/Rivet (check out Gabe Desjardins' blog for an explanation of "tough minutes" if you aren't entirely sure).

For this reason, Sheldon Souray at 5 million plus isn't worth it. He provides us with solid offense, however beyond that he isn't anywhere near Norris calibre.

Tricolore#20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:04 AM
  #12
Tricolore#20
Registered User
 
Tricolore#20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,169
vCash: 500
By the way, what I'm talking about is listed here:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/mtl.php?sort=8

Check out the rankings in terms of quality of competition. Markov, Komisarek, Dandenault and Bouillon are all regular defensemen who are ahead of Souray in terms of quality of opposition. I've been monitoring this all season, and it has been like this the entire time. The fact that Souray has such a bad plus/minus while playing against players who aren't the league's best is quite troubling.

Tricolore#20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:12 AM
  #13
Habs10Habs
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Habs10Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 52,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricolore#20 View Post
By the way, what I'm talking about is listed here:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/mtl.php?sort=8

Check out the rankings in terms of quality of competition. Markov, Komisarek, Dandenault and Bouillon are all regular defensemen who are ahead of Souray in terms of quality of opposition. I've been monitoring this all season, and it has been like this the entire time. The fact that Souray has such a bad plus/minus while playing against players who aren't the league's best is quite troubling.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing that.

Habs10Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:12 AM
  #14
coolguy21415
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 9,285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricolore#20 View Post
By the way, what I'm talking about is listed here:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/mtl.php?sort=8

Check out the rankings in terms of quality of competition. Markov, Komisarek, Dandenault and Bouillon are all regular defensemen who are ahead of Souray in terms of quality of opposition. I've been monitoring this all season, and it has been like this the entire time. The fact that Souray has such a bad plus/minus while playing against players who aren't the league's best is quite troubling.
Well since you're so quick to point out that stat, you might also want to mention that (from the same service) Souray and Rivet played with the worst teammates on the ice, too.

coolguy21415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:14 AM
  #15
LesCanadiens
Registered User
 
LesCanadiens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Okanagan Baby!
Posts: 2,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricolore#20 View Post
By the way, what I'm talking about is listed here:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/mtl.php?sort=8

Check out the rankings in terms of quality of competition. Markov, Komisarek, Dandenault and Bouillon are all regular defensemen who are ahead of Souray in terms of quality of opposition. I've been monitoring this all season, and it has been like this the entire time. The fact that Souray has such a bad plus/minus while playing against players who aren't the league's best is quite troubling.
Something I suspected all along. Thanks for proving it.

Norris?

LesCanadiens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:16 AM
  #16
brownman*
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Well since you're so quick to point out that stat, you might also want to mention that (from the same service) Souray and Rivet played with the worst teammates on the ice, too.
Still doesn't make him worthy of the Norris.

brownman* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:18 AM
  #17
Habs10Habs
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Habs10Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 52,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
It's possible he'll be nominated, if only because there aren't a lot of star defensive seasons happening this year (Nieds nor Pronger have been fantastic). Lidstrom already has the Norris sewn up, though.
I agree, Nieds and Pronger haven't played up to their usual standards, but sadly one of them will be nominated by their name alone.

Habs10Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:18 AM
  #18
coolguy21415
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 9,285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownman View Post
Still doesn't make him worthy of the Norris.
I never stated he was worthy of it. Quite the opposite in fact, but it's not fair to only tell part of the story. That would be like pointing out Perezhogin's +/- stat without also looking at his penalty minutes.

coolguy21415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:20 AM
  #19
Shabutie
Registered User
 
Shabutie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Portugal
Posts: 15,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownman View Post
Still doesn't make him worthy of the Norris.
The fact that he's our best scorer and MVP makes the nomination a possibility.

I don't think he should win it cuz he's attrocious defensively, but you have to look at the total package...Sheldon has dominated offensively.

Shabutie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:20 AM
  #20
Ross MacLochness
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,774
vCash: 500
If Souray is even nominated the legitimacy of NHL awards will be forever tarnished in my eyes.

Ross MacLochness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:21 AM
  #21
brownman*
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
I agree, Nieds and Pronger haven't played up to their usual standards, but sadly one of them will be nominated by their name alone.
Both have 50+ pts, are both + players and log more than 27 min/game. What part of that makes them unworthy of another Norris nomination?????


brownman* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:26 AM
  #22
LeMAD
Registered User
 
LeMAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,342
vCash: 500
Souray is a bad defenseman...

LeMAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:27 AM
  #23
coolguy21415
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 9,285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownman View Post
Both have 50+ pts, are both + players and log more than 27 min/game. What part of that makes them unworthy of another Norris nomination?????

Pronger will get nominated, Nieds will not. Neither will win.

coolguy21415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:29 AM
  #24
Netro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 813
vCash: 500
Much too weak defensively to be considered.

Netro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2007, 11:31 AM
  #25
brownman*
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Pronger will get nominated, Nieds will not. Neither will win.
Of course Lidstrom will win but have you LOOKED at the stats? Who deserves to be nominated ahead of Pronger, Niedermayer and Lidstrom?

Dan Boyle? -1.
Tomas Kaberle? -1, out for the season, likely.
Bryan McCabe? Don't make me laugh.
Bryan Rafalski? Perhaps
Mathieu Schneider? Perhaps

Not likely

The big three listed at the top are the three amigos of the Norris trophy.

brownman* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.