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Sheldon Souray: Legitimate Norris Candidate?

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Old
03-06-2007, 11:38 AM
  #26
RE-HABS
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I think he will be nominated, his +/- will hurt him though and potential playoff absence too (I know voting takes places before, but it looks better if his play got them in).

Potential Candidates:

Lidstrom (likely winner)
Niedermeyer or Pronger
Souray

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03-06-2007, 11:43 AM
  #27
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If I'm not mistaken, the Norris trophy considers defense as much as offense.

souray isn't even in the clear top 100 for defense, anyway, he'll probably be nominated since he's the best offensive defenceman since McInnis 10 years ago.

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03-06-2007, 12:23 PM
  #28
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I remember Don Cherry said Souray should have been nominated last year, so he'll have a fit if he isn't nominated this year with the incredible season he's having.

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03-06-2007, 12:23 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by franchise player View Post
he's adequate defensively.

Dont think so....very poor defensively

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03-06-2007, 12:26 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I remember Don Cherry said Souray should have been nominated last year, so he'll have a fit if he isn't nominated this year with the incredible season he's having.
Yeah Don Cherry is a very smart man

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03-06-2007, 12:36 PM
  #31
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Souray Noris???

How can a guy win the Norris trophy while being -19 ???

Open your eyes, it's not because he has a lot of points that he deserves this trophy. Maybe if it was a trophy for the best ofensive defenseman...

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03-06-2007, 12:40 PM
  #32
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They have a big secret vote, don't they? Anybody and everybody is eligible. It's not like you get "nominated". Then the top-3 votegetters are publicized as "finalists" for the awards show? If that's still the way they do it, I imagine Souray will get some votes. He won't end up as one of the finalists. But maybe his vote-total points will get him near to the top-5? Definitely top-10?

Lidstrom and Niedermayer are clear finalists. I don't think Pronger missed too much time to be discounted, but there will probably be some vote-splitting with his teammate there that hurts his chances and maybe knocks him down into the next group with Visnovsky, Boyle, Souray, maybe Kaberle, Chara, Rafalski, I don't know, guys like that. Anyway, just being in that company is pretty amazing for Souray IMHO, never mind whether he ever actually grabbed a "finalist" spot for the Norris on awards night.

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03-06-2007, 12:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I remember Don Cherry said Souray should have been nominated last year, so he'll have a fit if he isn't nominated this year with the incredible season he's having.
He was one of the worst defensemen in the league last year

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03-06-2007, 01:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
He was one of the worst defensemen in the league last year
Suppose for argument's sake there were 250 defensemen in the league last year. To be "one of the worst", where would you rank him out of 250?

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03-06-2007, 01:10 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
They have a big secret vote, don't they? Anybody and everybody is eligible. It's not like you get "nominated". Then the top-3 votegetters are publicized as "finalists" for the awards show? If that's still the way they do it, I imagine Souray will get some votes. He won't end up as one of the finalists. But maybe his vote-total points will get him near to the top-5? Definitely top-10?

Lidstrom and Niedermayer are clear finalists. I don't think Pronger missed too much time to be discounted, but there will probably be some vote-splitting with his teammate there that hurts his chances and maybe knocks him down into the next group with Visnovsky, Boyle, Souray, maybe Kaberle, Chara, Rafalski, I don't know, guys like that. Anyway, just being in that company is pretty amazing for Souray IMHO, never mind whether he ever actually grabbed a "finalist" spot for the Norris on awards night.
The NHL nominates 4 players to the ballot prior to voting, and the winner is announced at the awards ceremony. Rory Fitzpatrick is not eligible to win the Norris, unfortunately.

This article outlines the voting process and last season's nominees:
http://www.hockeyfights.com/news/53085

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Old
03-06-2007, 01:19 PM
  #36
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I would be very surprised to see a Norris nomination for Souray.

I don't think he's good enough at... hmmm... lets see... oh, yes: defense.

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03-06-2007, 01:34 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
The NHL nominates 4 players to the ballot prior to voting, and the winner is announced at the awards ceremony. Rory Fitzpatrick is not eligible to win the Norris, unfortunately.

This article outlines the voting process and last season's nominees:
http://www.hockeyfights.com/news/53085
Hmmm... I was about to say "Thanks, I guess they changed it"... but then I read the article, and it seemed to back up what I said? PHWA votes, the top-3 vote getters are anointed as "finalists", the #1 gets revealed in the awards show?

Anyway, you made me look, and while I didn't find a complete breakdown of the voting lists (used to be it was published every year in the NHL Guide and Record book, I'm not carrying mine at the moment), I did see articles noting for example that Legace and Luongo were 5th and 7th for the Vezina last year, that Schneider was 6th for the Norris, Yzerman 7th for the Lady Byng, etc. So my confidence that the same ol' same ol' open vote method still exists is renewed. And if Schneider could be 6th for the Norris last year, then I think Souray ought to be at least 6th this year.

EDIT: Lookee here...
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=145895&page=2


Last edited by Blind Gardien: 03-06-2007 at 01:39 PM.
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Old
03-06-2007, 01:36 PM
  #38
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If he finishes the season as the top point getter for a defenseman, maybe he'll be top 3. Otherwise not.

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03-06-2007, 01:37 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
The NHL nominates 4 players to the ballot prior to voting, and the winner is announced at the awards ceremony. Rory Fitzpatrick is not eligible to win the Norris, unfortunately.

This article outlines the voting process and last season's nominees:
http://www.hockeyfights.com/news/53085
You misunderstood the article. Nowhere does it say the the NHL niminates 4 players prior to voting. The NHL announced the finalists, means they announced the top 5 vote getters.

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Old
03-06-2007, 01:44 PM
  #40
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No.

At this point, If an Hab had to win something, I'd nominate Streit for the Lady Byng or Bill Masterton, even though Kessel will win the later.

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03-06-2007, 01:49 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatTraverse View Post
If this was still the 80's where D doesn't matter he would probably win it like Paul Coffey did.
To win it like Coffey did, Souray needs about 70 more points. His offensive numbers aren't anywhere near overwhelming enough for people to overlook his defensive lapses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve The Habs Fan View Post
If I'm not mistaken, the Norris trophy considers defense as much as offense.

souray isn't even in the clear top 100 for defense, anyway, he'll probably be nominated since he's the best offensive defenceman since McInnis 10 years ago.
Brian Leetch?

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Old
03-06-2007, 02:13 PM
  #42
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No way in hell does he win it.

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Old
03-06-2007, 02:35 PM
  #43
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I like him but just for the Paul Coffey comparison for instance, Coffey was a once in a lifetime player that would do whatever he wanted on the ice and nobody could touch him when he was skating like a missile. We're not talking about a guy that only scored during powerplays here.

But Sourey is easily in the Top 15 of the league bests.

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03-06-2007, 02:36 PM
  #44
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To answer the original question, Sheldon Souray: Legitimate Norris Candidate?

Yes, of course. There's no doubt he's going to get a bunch of votes and will probably be in the top 5. But he's not going to win, and I'd be stunned if he made the top 3.

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03-06-2007, 02:47 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habber View Post
To answer the original question, Sheldon Souray: Legitimate Norris Candidate?

Yes, of course. There's no doubt he's going to get a bunch of votes and will probably be in the top 5. But he's not going to win, and I'd be stunned if he made the top 3.
agreed... fully agreed!

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Old
03-06-2007, 03:02 PM
  #46
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Suppose for argument's sake there were 250 defensemen in the league last year. To be "one of the worst", where would you rank him out of 250?
Somewhere between 231st and 239th.

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Old
03-06-2007, 03:15 PM
  #47
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Somewhere between 231st and 239th.
Not sure if you mean that sarcastically or seriously... ?

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03-06-2007, 03:20 PM
  #48
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Not sure if you mean that sarcastically or seriously... ?
Somewhat sarcastically. But he was the Habs worst D last year...

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Old
03-06-2007, 03:21 PM
  #49
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He doesn't deserve the Norris, end of.

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03-06-2007, 03:44 PM
  #50
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Not sure if you mean that sarcastically or seriously... ?
He's make a great forward though!

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