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Champions Hockey League opens in August 2014 [without KHL Teams]

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Old
04-23-2014, 09:27 AM
  #351
vorky
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@BlueBratislava

I agree with you, especially with this
Quote:
Unlike CHL, the KHL was profiling itself as a pan-european league from the first press conference. Even though people laughed at it first, their long-term strategy is becoming reality. Like it or not.
The biggest problem of CHL is lack of money and desire to be no.1 league in Europe, at least. They just copied basket Euroleague, but forgot to copy everything. Basket has rule that team with A licence cannot finish in bottom of domestic league. It is not a problem for CHL, when you look at tables of domestic leagues. Etc

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04-23-2014, 09:39 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by FreshFruit View Post
Don't get this sentence.
Last time I checked in UCL the best and most successful football teams are the richest football teams. Bayern, Barcelona, Chelsea, RM have players salary more than some small countries earn in a year. Even middle top of the crop clubs like Atletico Madrid have players budget of 30 - 50 mill Euros.
But those clubs don't have automatic entry, they still have to place high enough in their domestic leagues to qualify. Liverpool missed out last year, United will miss out this year.

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04-23-2014, 09:46 AM
  #353
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No it's not.
Championship league in hockey should include 8 NHL, 4 KHL and at most 2 Swedish and 2 NLA teams to be called, Championship league in hockey.
Getting some villages from Sweden and Finland and calling it Championship hockey league is anisine. It's European Trophy, not even that without the best league in Europe.

Last time I checked Medvedev wanted KHL in that CHL but wanted 8 KHL's clubs(4 russian and 4 non-russian) but for some reason CHL management refused to have so many KHL clubs and instead we have 8 Swedish clubs, call it an irony.
It's a European Championship, why on Earth would you bring in NHL clubs? Do you have any idea what the point of the league is for crying out loud? The clubs wanted a EUROPEAN CLUB COMPETITION, NHL has no place in it.

KHL wanted to dictate what clubs got in, CHL had their idea. KHL didn't like that idea, this was the result.

By they way, there's only 7 Swedish clubs, since Skellefteå won the regular season and the title.

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04-23-2014, 09:58 AM
  #354
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Since you people have hard time grasping the concept, let me just explain it properly:

- previous attempt fell due to to poor management and lack of sponsors or one sponsor dropping out out of spite/bitterness
- the UCL didn't become a as big as it overnight, it took years to develop and they also went through changes (number or teams, format)
- the clubs wanted to create a European club championship
- in order to prevent the problems of the previous attempts, the league must have a firm foundation, thus the founding members who enable it.
- once a firm foundation has been established (4 years), the clubs can be selected purely on sportive merits.
- hockey is a small sport in Europe and the global scale, it's absolutely ludicrous to expect UCL kind of money, so people should really lower their expectations to a more realistic level. Also thinking Gazprom would pay for all of Europe's hockey is just completely insane, those people haven't been attention to the economic and political news lately.

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04-23-2014, 10:16 AM
  #355
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It's a European Championship, why on Earth would you bring in NHL clubs? Do you have any idea what the point of the league is for crying out loud? The clubs wanted a EUROPEAN CLUB COMPETITION, NHL has no place in it.

KHL wanted to dictate what clubs got in, CHL had their idea. KHL didn't like that idea, this was the result.

By they way, there's only 7 Swedish clubs, since Skellefteå won the regular season and the title.
I'll try to explain.
The name of the competition is Championship hockey league. When someone thinks of Championship league/competition one thinks of the best clubs from the best leagues playing to determine who's the best team in the World.

There is a reason why in Europe footballs' Championship league is called UEFA Championship league(UEFA govern body for European football).


We also must clarify that NHL is trying to push its version of some glorified Championship league vs top European clubs(only for their pockets ofc.) so if they succeed people might look at this second thing as a laughingstock.

It's a smaller version of European Trophy. Call it that way.

CHL has no validation whatsoever to call it self CHL when it doesn't contain two best leagues in the world and is obviously operating on friends to friends level.

I hope you're not trying to justify that it's better to have 7-8 Swedish clubs in that league than 8 clubs from KHL.

I know, it's 'cause of stability. Prestige is falling from the sky also.

I really doubt how's this gonna help to grow game of hockey in Europe.

Also, it's kinda funny how your cynical about KHL and its Russian influnce in it but you're willing to justify overrated Swedish influence in so called CHL.

Quote:
Since you people have hard time grasping the concept, let me just explain it properly:

- previous attempt fell due to to poor management and lack of sponsors or one sponsor dropping out out of spite/bitterness
- the UCL didn't become a as big as it overnight, it took years to develop and they also went through changes (number or teams, format)
- the clubs wanted to create a European club championship
- in order to prevent the problems of the previous attempts, the league must have a firm foundation, thus the founding members who enable it.
- once a firm foundation has been established (4 years), the clubs can be selected purely on sportive merits.
- hockey is a small sport in Europe and the global scale, it's absolutely ludicrous to expect UCL kind of money, so people should really lower their expectations to a more realistic level. Also thinking Gazprom would pay for all of Europe's hockey is just completely insane, those people haven't been attention to the economic and political news lately.
Gazprom, Rosneft and all those sponsors. If you can advequately replace them with Western counterparts I'm all in. Whole of Europes' sport is flowing because of sponsors, noone is rolling heads because of that in football or basketball or handball. Only in hockey it's ludicruous and evil to have sponsors filling your budget.

Swedish clubs are also party subsidised by local goverment. Find a sponsor mate. If Gazprom is willing to pump money take it while you can I see no problem in that.

Edit. You can't have firm foundantions while you're trying to be an opposition to a league that is 20 times stronger and richer than you. WHA is a good example.


Last edited by FreshFruit: 04-23-2014 at 10:48 AM.
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04-23-2014, 10:34 AM
  #356
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By they way, there's only 7 Swedish clubs, since Skellefteå won the regular season and the title.
Not true, Jussi, not true.

Quote:
Sweden (SHL): Djurgarden Stockholm, Frolunda Gothenburg, Farjestad Karlstad, HV71 Jonkoping, Linkopings HC, Lulea Hockey as Founding Clubs. The two Swedish teams are known too with regular-season winner Skelleftea AIK and semi-finalist Vaxjo Lakers.
It is 8 swedish clubs not 7 as Jussi claimed.

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...iew/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=8660&cHash=4740b1f34301de6c890940cbc9b9d9ae

Quote:
New clubs join CHL
B-licence teams determined through domestic play
04.04.2014

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04-23-2014, 10:45 AM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...iew/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=8660&cHash=4740b1f34301de6c890940cbc9b9d9ae

Not true, Jussi, not true.



It is 8 swedish clubs not 7 as Jussi claimed.
And it's not 8 Swedish clubs for one season, they're given the slack for 4 whole years under the pretext that CHL needs time for stability and safe growth. Prize money is desperately low, scheldule is attrocious and yet while KHL wanted to join it it was easily kicked out because it allegedly wanted too many non russian clubs to play that competition and other Federations wouldn't like that.

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04-23-2014, 10:50 AM
  #358
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Jussi claimed months ago that there is 3 yrs of guaranteed spot for Founding Clubs. Now he has talked about 4 yrs....

There is one of possible scenarios....
KHL will take a few CHL founding clubs to KHL within next XY yrs, that might be a plan for KHL. The same story as WHA/NHL.

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04-23-2014, 11:32 AM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshFruit View Post
I'll try to explain.
The name of the competition is Championship hockey league.
It's CHAMPION'S HOCKEY LEAGUE: http://www.championshockeyleague.net/

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04-23-2014, 11:33 AM
  #360
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And this is why I have 0 (zero) respect for the CHL. The Swedish point of view always makes me laugh, because I don't have any need to compare myself, or us as a whole, to Swedes like they think we do. I am a supporter of HC Slovan Bratislava regardless of what league we play in. Since we play in the KHL I educated myself about the current league and its problems. And I know for sure in the current situation for my team and people around, that it is much more beneficial to play 50-whatever regular season KHL games in 2014/2015 + (possible) Play Offs, than to play <10 CHL games in combination with the domestic league.
As I previously wrote, until this league will have something BIG to play for, it will be just a glorified European Trophy.
Ok? I am a supporter of my club as long as the direction the club is taking is acceptable in my eyes. I am not a sheep. I'm sure Slovan is happy to have supporters like you though, means they can do whatever the **** they want with the club and still have the poor ******** cheering them on.

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04-23-2014, 11:35 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by FreshFruit View Post
CHL has no validation whatsoever to call it self CHL when it doesn't contain two best leagues in the world and is obviously operating on friends to friends level.
Are you really that upset your complaining about the name?

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04-23-2014, 11:40 AM
  #362
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Aah, Växjö was missing from the lists I saw and the site itself. My bad.

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04-23-2014, 11:42 AM
  #363
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3 years was what reported first but recent'y I've seen it being as 4.

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04-23-2014, 12:15 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Ok? I am a supporter of my club as long as the direction the club is taking is acceptable in my eyes. I am not a sheep. I'm sure Slovan is happy to have supporters like you though, means they can do whatever the **** they want with the club and still have the poor ******** cheering them on.
You don't know anything about me, the fans, or the club. Joining the KHL helped the club in all dimensions and put it back on the map of serious hockey. Do you have a problem with that?
How many times have you been to:
a) a KHL game
b) to any hockey in Bratislava
c) to a KHL game at Slovan
If your answer to all three is 0, then you have no right to say childish stuff like this and please STOP trolling. I don't go to Swedish forums, because I don't care. You're making Swedes look stupid, but I know your country is full of smart people because I know a lot of them.

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04-23-2014, 12:22 PM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Are you really that upset your complaining about the name?
Are the Finns happy that Nokia is changing its name to Microsoft Mobile?

Quote:
It's CHAMPION'S HOCKEY LEAGUE: http://www.championshockeyleague.net/
Thanks for correcting my misspelling.

I still gotta get some valid answer why has CHL banned KHLs' clubs from participating when they were willing to do so.
Maybe instant boost in prestige and higher quality of the tournament is not the thing for other Federations.

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04-23-2014, 12:31 PM
  #366
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Are the Finns happy that Nokia is changing its name to Microsoft Mobile?
Does nokia still make phones? The more you know!

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04-23-2014, 01:05 PM
  #367
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Quote:
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Are the Finns happy that Nokia is changing its name to Microsoft Mobile?



Thanks for correcting my misspelling.

I still gotta get some valid answer why has CHL banned KHLs' clubs from participating when they were willing to do so.
Maybe instant boost in prestige and higher quality of the tournament is not the thing for other Federations.
Relevance?

CHL didn't ban clubs per se but rather wanted clubs chosen on their say, not Russians. There's no clear source but rather small tidbits here and there.

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04-23-2014, 02:54 PM
  #368
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Gazprom, Rosneft and all those sponsors. If you can advequately replace them with Western counterparts I'm all in. Whole of Europes' sport is flowing because of sponsors, noone is rolling heads because of that in football or basketball or handball. Only in hockey it's ludicruous and evil to have sponsors filling your budget.

Swedish clubs are also party subsidised by local goverment. Find a sponsor mate. If Gazprom is willing to pump money take it while you can I see no problem in that.

Edit. You can't have firm foundantions while you're trying to be an opposition to a league that is 20 times stronger and richer than you. WHA is a good example.
In the normal world (outside the Russian sphere of influence), you get sponsors by giving value to the companies sponsoring you. That means you'll have to have a product that is interesting for media and fans, to get money from sponsors.

The CHL is trying to gradually build the interest for the tournament, to get a solid business case that will attract more sponsor money as the interest for the tournament increases.

The last CHL attempt was a typical example of what could happen if you rely too much on a generous sponsor, that the following year is not so generous.

By the way, do you have any source to the Swedish local government subsidies? I guess it's a very small percentage of the incomes of the Swedish clubs.

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04-23-2014, 02:56 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by bordshockeypampen View Post
In the normal world (outside the Russian sphere of influence), you get sponsors by giving value to the companies sponsoring you. That means you'll have to have a product that is interesting for media and fans, to get money from sponsors.

The CHL is trying to gradually build the interest for the tournament, to get a solid business case that will attract more sponsor money as the interest for the tournament increases.

The last CHL attempt was a typical example of what could happen if you rely too much on a generous sponsor, that the following year is not so generous.

By the way, do you have any source to the Swedish local government subsidies? I guess it's a very small percentage of the incomes of the Swedish clubs.
Whoa, don't come here with your logic and reason and derail this thread.

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04-23-2014, 02:59 PM
  #370
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Ok? I am a supporter of my club as long as the direction the club is taking is acceptable in my eyes. I am not a sheep. I'm sure Slovan is happy to have supporters like you though, means they can do whatever the **** they want with the club and still have the poor ******** cheering them on.
Except going to KHL is not that bad thing when its the better league. Thats why they have went there. I wouldn't say they can do what ever and play what ever league, if they went on divison 1 or 2, you think there still would be as many spectators? You're just being as anti KHL as you can without any reasoning.

When we see Jokerit having at least just as "much" spectators as they did in the Liiga, you see what I mean. Only the HIFK matches cant be.. well, matched.

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04-23-2014, 03:09 PM
  #371
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Except going to KHL is not that bad thing when its the better league. Thats why they have went there. I wouldn't say they can do what ever and play what ever league, if they went on divison 1 or 2, you think there still would be as many spectators? You're just being as anti KHL as you can without any reasoning.

When we see Jokerit having at least just as "much" spectators as they did in the Liiga, you see what I mean. Only the HIFK matches cant be.. well, matched.
We CLEARLY don't see eye to eye on that. I would never want my club to play a bunch of clubs noone in this country has ever heard of, and couldn't care less about. **** like that is for short tournaments only. My team is in the swedish 2nd division (allsvenskan), and I wouldn't trade what the club is now for being a top dog dominating team in KHL, not even close, and trust me on the fact that Malmö is a team KHL would LOVE to have, if they'd like to play in KHL, they have a spot as soon as possible. Winning KHL has no prestige or meaning over here, noone cares even a little.

KHL is about as plastic as a league can possibly be, will it always be? Who knows. Give me a call in 20 years and see if I changed my mind.

If you cared about football, would you like your favourite team to join Portugals league?

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04-23-2014, 03:14 PM
  #372
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Good God. Honestly people. Stop with the racial profiling in making sweeping statements about intelligence. Just MINDBLOWING you guys would even go there. Unreal.

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04-23-2014, 05:22 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
We CLEARLY don't see eye to eye on that. I would never want my club to play a bunch of clubs noone in this country has ever heard of, and couldn't care less about. **** like that is for short tournaments only. My team is in the swedish 2nd division (allsvenskan), and I wouldn't trade what the club is now for being a top dog dominating team in KHL, not even close, and trust me on the fact that Malmö is a team KHL would LOVE to have, if they'd like to play in KHL, they have a spot as soon as possible. Winning KHL has no prestige or meaning over here, noone cares even a little.

KHL is about as plastic as a league can possibly be, will it always be? Who knows. Give me a call in 20 years and see if I changed my mind.

If you cared about football, would you like your favourite team to join Portugals league?
Hard to say about that Portugal thing, because I don't care about football, but perhaps if there was league like KHL where is many countries and will be even more, not just a portugal league, then I could possibly care the same way as I do about KHL. I do find Slovak and Cze teams really interesting, as well as Riga, Moscow and St. Petersburg teams.

I admit I share the feeling with you about some of the most random KHL teams. I hope the divison system is well done. I would like to see Jokerit playing most western teams. It would be like Prime divison. Prime Russian cities, Praha, Helsinki, Riga and Bratislava, but time will show what is the final divisonal cut.

Swedish 2 divison doesnt really count in this because its so good that even I could watch it games. It's completely different story in Slovakia. Think about Slovakian Extra league. I bet even most Slovaks rather watch KHL tbh. And take all the hate aside, the KHL playoffs and these finals for example has been pretty darn good hockey. Praha would be missing alot if they didin't have it.

Sweden is most unlikely to care about KHL, because they have so good home league. Next is probably actually Finland. Yes, there are people in Finland that share your opinions. Alot of them. But they're not close being every body, like some seem to mistakenly think. Majority doensn't really know about it, but it's not like people know right away it's not going to work. People usually are really pessimistic as Finns always are, but yes there is really good chance for the KHL project to succeed in here. I think in Bratislava its no brainer. KHL or Slovak league? Of course they want KHL. Even though their league still is solid hockey. But country like Norway will love having KHL. They might have some hockey culture in the country and some people watching but they miss everything else. Good fit for a KHL team and 7-8k seat Arena.


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04-23-2014, 07:51 PM
  #374
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In the normal world (outside the Russian sphere of influence), you get sponsors by giving value to the companies sponsoring you. That means you'll have to have a product that is interesting for media and fans, to get money from sponsors.

The CHL is trying to gradually build the interest for the tournament, to get a solid business case that will attract more sponsor money as the interest for the tournament increases.

The last CHL attempt was a typical example of what could happen if you rely too much on a generous sponsor, that the following year is not so generous.
Ya... Gradual 'organic' growth where you largely remain self-sufficient and live within your means probably isn't as exciting as wondering if your club is going to be bailed out so your last pay cheque doesn't bounce and your job survives into next season but few things in life are.

Anyway... Before this thread goes off the rails again and gets locked I guess I will give my .02 cents on a few things...

The name - Ya, I think we can all agree the name kind of sucks and really doesn't provide an accurate description of the tournament. You know what other tournament has a bad name? UEFA's Champions League... Nearly half the spots in the competition's main stage are reserved for teams that aren't champions. Despite the name the UCL is a monster. There are probably plenty of reasons why the CHL might not be a success but it's name isn't one of them.

Prize Money - It would be better if there was tens of millions of $ up for grabs but IMHO it isn't a necessity. Basketball's Euroleague has been built into something clubs, players and fans all care about and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of money to be won in that either.

Russian Money - It would probably be better to have everyone on board but I'm not sure why some think the CHL is doomed to fail without the backing of Russia or the KHL. The clubs involved in the CHL have been around for decades as have the domestic leagues they play in and they have all managed to survived this long without the support of Russia's oligarchy.

Participation - Detractors here seem to be hung up on the fact Djurgarden will be playing in the tournament next year as if somehow this is a huge blow to the legitmacy or prestige of the CHL. I find this odd because if Djurgarden failed in their promotion attempt, lost their place in the CHL and was faced with another year in the 2nd tier many on this board would be looking at them as a potential and desirable club to join the KHL. I mean how often has Malmo, a club that has spent the better part of the last decade mired in the 2nd tier, been brought up as a club that would be a great addition to the KHL? So just to make sure I understand Djurgarden in the CHL = CHL is a joke... An even worse club to the KHL = Europe's best league just became that much better!?

The Format - 10 groups of 4 with 16 advancing to the knockout stage doesn't work all that well. Scheduling/available dates probably wouldn't allow for it but I think it would have been better to have a field of 32 with some teams having to play their way in through prelims. This would have also allowed some of the clubs/leagues that applied but were denied participation due to the field of 40 already being filled up a chance to be involved. The fact that there was more interest than spots available is a good sign for the CHL but they should have taken advantage of the interest and hopefully next year they will.

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04-23-2014, 09:09 PM
  #375
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Ya... Gradual 'organic' growth where you largely remain self-sufficient and live within your means probably isn't as exciting as wondering if your club is going to be bailed out so your last pay cheque doesn't bounce and your job survives into next season but few things in life are.

Anyway... Before this thread goes off the rails again and gets locked I guess I will give my .02 cents on a few things...

The name - Ya, I think we can all agree the name kind of sucks and really doesn't provide an accurate description of the tournament. You know what other tournament has a bad name? UEFA's Champions League... Nearly half the spots in the competition's main stage are reserved for teams that aren't champions. Despite the name the UCL is a monster. There are probably plenty of reasons why the CHL might not be a success but it's name isn't one of them.

Prize Money - It would be better if there was tens of millions of $ up for grabs but IMHO it isn't a necessity. Basketball's Euroleague has been built into something clubs, players and fans all care about and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of money to be won in that either.

Russian Money - It would probably be better to have everyone on board but I'm not sure why some think the CHL is doomed to fail without the backing of Russia or the KHL. The clubs involved in the CHL have been around for decades as have the domestic leagues they play in and they have all managed to survived this long without the support of Russia's oligarchy.

Participation - Detractors here seem to be hung up on the fact Djurgarden will be playing in the tournament next year as if somehow this is a huge blow to the legitmacy or prestige of the CHL. I find this odd because if Djurgarden failed in their promotion attempt, lost their place in the CHL and was faced with another year in the 2nd tier many on this board would be looking at them as a potential and desirable club to join the KHL. I mean how often has Malmo, a club that has spent the better part of the last decade mired in the 2nd tier, been brought up as a club that would be a great addition to the KHL? So just to make sure I understand Djurgarden in the CHL = CHL is a joke... An even worse club to the KHL = Europe's best league just became that much better!?

The Format - 10 groups of 4 with 16 advancing to the knockout stage doesn't work all that well. Scheduling/available dates probably wouldn't allow for it but I think it would have been better to have a field of 32 with some teams having to play their way in through prelims. This would have also allowed some of the clubs/leagues that applied but were denied participation due to the field of 40 already being filled up a chance to be involved. The fact that there was more interest than spots available is a good sign for the CHL but they should have taken advantage of the interest and hopefully next year they will.
Does it even need to be mentioned that Jokerit finished 9th in the Finnish league and hasn't won the title in 12 years? Or that Vålerenga aren't even the Norwegian champions?

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