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Old
04-23-2014, 03:15 PM
  #426
BigT2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeJimmie View Post
My point was more yeah, they aren't the greatest thing ever, but they also got us to 7th in the league for GA's with multiple goalies. We have 2 Great puck movers in Spurg and Suter, and 2 above-average to good puck movers in Brodin and Scandella.
Now imagine if you break up your two best above-average puck movers, slot an average with Spurgeon so you have someone big and physical who can still play defense and Brodin anchors the 2nd line?

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Originally Posted by JudgeJimmie View Post
What about our defense makes you think we aren't winning a championship? The fact that Spurge is 5'9"? That Stoner had a terrible year... Last year? We have a defensive pairing that could shut down any line in the league in Suter - Brodin, and I would feel very confident with Scandella - Spurge against any 2nd line. Stoner is playing great, especially when you compare him to other 5-6 pairing D~men.
I don't feel confident at all against a 2nd line from STL or CHI, let alone Colorado when they are healthy. I would rather Suter-? out for top pairing, Brodin-Folin against the 2nd scoring line and have Spurgeon and Scandella out there with your 3rd line to expose a weakness in a teams depth and score from the point or generate from the point. Takes a load of pressure off Suter-Spurgeon to produce when they are out there for essentially top defensive lines all the time.

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04-23-2014, 03:41 PM
  #427
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Yep, no doubt about it having a top pairing quality defender in Spurge slotting on your 5/6 pairing would not be a bad thing. Like I said, of course ADDING a quality defender to what we already have will make us better.. But there aren't too many available D~men out there I could see us just straight swapping with and we would be way better.

What we are really getting at is should we pay top dollar to add another top 4 D~man to the group. I personally think getting someone of Vanek's quality in the forward group would be a bigger boost to the team..

However IF we can sign Vanek AND sign all of the kids THEN by all means sign a top 4 D~man..

The problem is we can't afford 7M for Vanek, 5M for a D~man, and Sign all of the kids unless the cap significantly increases (which it might).

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04-23-2014, 03:48 PM
  #428
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Remember, we have Christian Folin likely in the Defensive mix next season.

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04-23-2014, 03:55 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by JudgeJimmie View Post
Yep, no doubt about it having a top pairing quality defender in Spurge slotting on your 5/6 pairing would not be a bad thing. Like I said, of course ADDING a quality defender to what we already have will make us better.. But there aren't too many available D~men out there I could see us just straight swapping with and we would be way better.
Which is you being way more realistic than my optimism.

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Originally Posted by JudgeJimmie View Post
What we are really getting at is should we pay top dollar to add another top 4 D~man to the group. I personally think getting someone of Vanek's quality in the forward group would be a bigger boost to the team..
I completely see what you're saying, I just don't know about yet another 30 goal scorer coming in is actually going to help over what happens in the long term if you can balance the blueline until Dumba could be ready to fill a 20 minute per NHL game type level of play. Recall Vanek hasn't hit 30 goals since 2010-11 season, only scored 26 in 78 games before the lockout, 23 this year in around 65 games....and it was all in an Eastern Conference where scoring is not particularly difficult.

Honest question, has a 30+ goal scorer moved from the East and been as productive in the West?

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Originally Posted by JudgeJimmie View Post
However IF we can sign Vanek AND sign all of the kids THEN by all means sign a top 4 D~man..

The problem is we can't afford 7M for Vanek, 5M for a D~man, and Sign all of the kids unless the cap significantly increases (which it might).
Agreed that you need to sign the kids and rightfully should be done, but they don't all have to break the bank on RFA contracts either though. I've seen numbers in the 5's, if not high 4's, for Brodin and Granlund. Coyle and Nino in the mid 3's. Tavares has a 5.5M caphit. That is really setting the baseline if you ask me.

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04-23-2014, 04:01 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Remember, we have Christian Folin likely in the Defensive mix next season.
Always thought of him paired with Brodin. Spurgeon/Scandella has always been a fantastic working pair. Just need someone (hopefully Dumba one day) who can play with Suter, and I really do think they have an extremely solid blueline that you could potentially put any of them out there in offensive or defensive situations. If they are going to compete with teams that are either young (Colorado) or mixture of depth and talent (St. Louis) or balanced (Chicago) on yearly basis, that is a blueline in my eyes which could do it, and the oldest one is Suter at 30 years old.

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04-23-2014, 04:23 PM
  #431
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Honest question, has a 30+ goal scorer moved from the East and been as productive in the West?
Parise and Pomminville

Agree about the RFA's, only Fletcher really knows what those contracts are going to look like. I have faith in Fletch that he is going to do all he can to make this team win, and he will keep the kids in mind while doing it.

Can you believe our lineup if we could add Vanek and Niskanen?

Parise - Granlund - Pominville
Vanek - Koivu - Coyle
Zucker - Haula - Nino
McCormick - Brodz - Fontaine

Suter - Niskanen
Brodin - Spurge
Scandella - Folin

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04-23-2014, 04:26 PM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeJimmie View Post
Parise and Pomminville

Agree about the RFA's, only Fletcher really knows what those contracts are going to look like. I have faith in Fletch that he is going to do all he can to make this team win, and he will keep the kids in mind while doing it.

Can you believe our lineup if we could add Vanek and Niskanen?

Parise - Granlund - Pominville
Vanek - Koivu - Coyle
Zucker - Haula - Nino
McCormick - Brodz - Fontaine

Suter - Niskanen
Brodin - Spurge
Scandella - Folin
Scandy has played better than Spurgeon recently. Rather have him in the top-4.

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Old
04-23-2014, 04:29 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by tomgilbertfan View Post
Scandy has played better than Spurgeon recently. Rather have him in the top-4.
I was just doing LD - RD

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Old
04-23-2014, 04:31 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by JudgeJimmie View Post
Parise and Pomminville

Agree about the RFA's, only Fletcher really knows what those contracts are going to look like. I have faith in Fletch that he is going to do all he can to make this team win, and he will keep the kids in mind while doing it.

Can you believe our lineup if we could add Vanek and Niskanen?

Parise - Granlund - Pominville
Vanek - Koivu - Coyle
Zucker - Haula - Nino
McCormick - Brodz - Fontaine

Suter - Niskanen
Brodin - Spurge
Scandella - Folin
I'd put Bulmer in there over McCormick (FA anyways) and roll that any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Especially if it is Harding backing up Kemps and not Backstrom.

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04-23-2014, 04:35 PM
  #435
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I just don't see the Wild going after a top 4 D-man with the likes of Dumba, Folin, Olofsson in the system and developing.

Suter, Brodin, Scandella, Spurgeon aren't going anywhere anytime soon... Folin will likely be in the lineup next year, with Dumba and Olofsson pushing for spots in the near future.

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04-23-2014, 04:38 PM
  #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
I just don't see the Wild going after a top 4 D-man with the likes of Dumba, Folin, Olofsson in the system and developing.

Suter, Brodin, Scandella, Spurgeon aren't going anywhere anytime soon... Folin will likely be in the lineup next year, with Dumba and Olofsson pushing for spots in the near future.
I agree. I dont remember the minutes or pairing that Folin was on when he played but I do remember him looking good overall when he played.

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04-23-2014, 04:46 PM
  #437
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(A) Wild could you an upgrade in the top-4 to push Spurgeon down

BUT

(B) there are zero available UFA Dmen that would be an upgrade, and honestly when was the last time you saw a Dman trade who was worth what it cost to get him?

WHICH MEANS

Folin time!

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04-23-2014, 04:48 PM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
I just don't see the Wild going after a top 4 D-man with the likes of Dumba, Folin, Olofsson in the system and developing.

Suter, Brodin, Scandella, Spurgeon aren't going anywhere anytime soon... Folin will likely be in the lineup next year, with Dumba and Olofsson pushing for spots in the near future.
I agree completely. I would like to see-

Suter - Brodin Top 5 dpair in the NHL

Scandella - Folin Both are 6'3 210lbs, can skate well and move the puck. Both have a little edge to their game, and Folin adds the big RH shot on the PP that this teams desperately needs.

Stoner/Ballard - Spurgeon Alot of my dislike for Spurgeon would disappear if he were playing 3rd pair assignments/minutes.

That also leaves you with Olofsson, Dumba, Blum, and hopefully Gunnarsson in Iowa.

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Old
04-23-2014, 04:56 PM
  #439
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Our D-pairs going into next year is in flux... I think the team clearly has shown this past season that they want Brodin moved over to the left side long term.


Suter - Spurgeon/Brodin (Both will get time there...)
Brodin/Scandella - Spurgeon/Folin
Scandella/Stoner? - Folin/Ballard/Prosser?/Blum?/FA?

Will Stoner be back? Will Prosser be back? What about Blum? Do we sign a FA for the bottom pair or as the 7th D-man?

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04-23-2014, 05:04 PM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Our D-pairs going into next year is in flux... I think the team clearly has shown this past season that they want Brodin moved over to the left side long term.


Suter - Spurgeon/Brodin (Both will get time there...)
Brodin/Scandella - Spurgeon/Folin
Scandella/Stoner? - Folin/Ballard/Prosser?/Blum?/FA?

Will Stoner be back? Will Prosser be back? What about Blum? Do we sign a FA for the bottom pair or as the 7th D-man?
I want Stoner back, he's a great #7 Dman and won't cost much.

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04-23-2014, 05:05 PM
  #441
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If you want more offense from the blue line you probally should keep Blum.

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Old
04-23-2014, 05:06 PM
  #442
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If you want more offense from the blue line you probally should keep Blum.
Folin is offense from the blue line... not that I am advocating getting rid of Blum either... I'm not sure what moves should be made there. I do know we are obviously on a path to develop the blue line from within for the most part.

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04-23-2014, 05:08 PM
  #443
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I like Blum a lot but I don't see how he fits on the team.

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04-23-2014, 05:12 PM
  #444
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I want Stoner back, he's a great #7 Dman and won't cost much.
I'm not convinced he's going to be as cheap as he has been. He's going to be a UFA, and has NHL playoff experience and plays solid minutes regularly.

If we're only offering the 7th spot in the lineup, he may walk and I think there will be plenty of buyers for what he brings. He could play bigger minutes for a non-playoff team this coming season.

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04-23-2014, 05:51 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Our D-pairs going into next year is in flux... I think the team clearly has shown this past season that they want Brodin moved over to the left side long term.


Suter - Spurgeon/Brodin (Both will get time there...)
Brodin/Scandella - Spurgeon/Folin
Scandella/Stoner? - Folin/Ballard/Prosser?/Blum?/FA?

Will Stoner be back? Will Prosser be back? What about Blum? Do we sign a FA for the bottom pair or as the 7th D-man?
Not sure where you're coming up with that thought. The only time that Brodin has been on the left side was when both Ballard and Stoner were hurt.

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04-24-2014, 08:53 AM
  #446
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I don't get handing over the reins to Folin, instead of Blum, Stoner, possibly Dumba and Olofsson. If he blows them away in training camp, then great, but he is completely unproven at this level. Shouldn't he have to earn his chance like everyone else? Making the jump from college to the pros can be done ( I.e. Haula, even though he spent significant time down on the farm), but playing D in the NHL takes longer to learn than the forward position in most cases.

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04-24-2014, 09:03 AM
  #447
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I remember the days when Pens fans were asking for Setoguchi and a mid round pick for Niskanen. Now the guy is probably going to get $5+ mil/year in Free Agency. I still think he'd be very useful in the Top 4, but not at the price he's going to command.

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04-24-2014, 09:13 AM
  #448
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Pending Suspension, would the Wild use their buyout on Cooke?

Unsure of how these things work.
No reason to. Cooke is a good player overall, maybe a bit overpaid, but he's fine on the fourth line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeJimmie View Post
My point was more yeah, they aren't the greatest thing ever, but they also got us to 7th in the league for GA's with multiple goalies. We have 2 Great puck movers in Spurg and Suter, and 2 above-average to good puck movers in Brodin and Scandella.
The defense doesn't play in a bubble. Those are team numbers, from the forwards to the defense to the goaltender. A lot of that was Harding and Kuemper standing on their heads, a lot of it was forwards collapsing quite a bit in the zone and preventing even strength scoring, and a lot of that was defenders getting on pucks quickly and starting the breakout.

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Remember, we have Christian Folin likely in the Defensive mix next season.
Folin would basically plug in for Prosser as a hopefully better 6/7 guy. Can't slot in a rookie to play in the top four.

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I remember the days when Pens fans were asking for Setoguchi and a mid round pick for Niskanen. Now the guy is probably going to get $5+ mil/year in Free Agency. I still think he'd be very useful in the Top 4, but not at the price he's going to command.
He's going to be expensive, but would you rather overpay for exactly what we need on defense (a right handed shot, #2 defenseman who can move the puck well and provide a lot of offense in all situations), or would you rather get another bottom pairing plugger and hope for the best?

I'd rather overpay for Niskanen than Vanek/Moulson. It all started with the Gilbert buyout (should have been Brodziak and Mitchell), creating that hole on the right side. We have multiple guys who can slot into that second line LW slot, but nobody looks outstanding paired with Suter, other than Brodin which leaves a massive hole on the second pairing.

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04-24-2014, 09:37 AM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
He's going to be expensive, but would you rather overpay for exactly what we need on defense (a right handed shot, #2 defenseman who can move the puck well and provide a lot of offense in all situations), or would you rather get another bottom pairing plugger and hope for the best?

I'd rather overpay for Niskanen than Vanek/Moulson. It all started with the Gilbert buyout (should have been Brodziak and Mitchell), creating that hole on the right side. We have multiple guys who can slot into that second line LW slot, but nobody looks outstanding paired with Suter, other than Brodin which leaves a massive hole on the second pairing.
The only thing I'd be concerned about is that this year was clearly the best year of his career and really the first time you could call him a true #2 defenseman. In the regular season he had career highs with 10g, 36a, 46p, +33 while averaging 21:18 TOI. His next best stats are 7g (07-08), 29a (08-09), 35p (08-09), +22 (07-08) and 20:29 ATOI (07-08 & pretty much the same 12-13).

Having career highs in his contract year scares me because he'll be paid based on that season, while he could very well revert to previous season production levels with a new coach and new system. Same reason I'm assuming that Vanek's stats go down here if he signs.

If Niskanen can keep up the consistency and be a solid #2 defensemen for the next several years (he is only 27 yrs old) then yes, $5+ mil/year might turn out to be a bargain. I just think the odds of regression are better and we risk paying him a hefty amount to be a second or third pairing defensemen while still trying to fill that hole at #2.

I guess I won't throw a fit if we sign him, but money and term will be a big factor for me in hating or loving the signing.

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04-24-2014, 10:22 AM
  #450
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Folin would basically plug in for Prosser as a hopefully better 6/7 guy. Can't slot in a rookie to play in the top four.
Stranger things have happened. We slotted a 19 year old rookie in our top 2 very recently. Being a #4 isn't that much of a stretch for Folin, as long as he looks good in camp/preseason.

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