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Barry Trotz out as coach - Hired in Washington

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04-23-2014, 02:46 PM
  #351
Jarnberg
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Trotz wasn't the answer to getting us to the next level, but Poile and the scouting staff have failed to identify / draft offensive talent. Poile's two stud picks in 30 years are Bondra and Radulov. That's really, really bad.

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04-23-2014, 02:49 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Trotz wasn't the answer to getting us to the next level, but Poile and the scouting staff have failed to identify / draft offensive talent. Poile's two stud picks in 30 years are Bondra and Radulov. That's really, really bad.
Yes, that's pa****ingthetic

#GRIT #PoileHard #Wedontneedscorers #MoarGrinders

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04-23-2014, 03:06 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Trotz wasn't the answer to getting us to the next level, but Poile and the scouting staff have failed to identify / draft offensive talent. Poile's two stud picks in 30 years are Bondra and Radulov. That's really, really bad.
no, Poile "hits" in the draft about as often or better than any loing term GM has done, his "hits" are just heavily weighted toward defensemen and goaltenders.

We would be complaining a lot less about Poile if he had been allowed to sign Hartnell long term and Radulov hadnt been a headcase. Those two players would have likely made the last 6-7 years very different...

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04-23-2014, 03:56 PM
  #354
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It really does make me wonder what people would of thought of Poile if it hadn't been for the fire sale and Radulov hadn't been, well Radulov. I'm not backing Poile in any form or fashion, but lets face it, he did have his knees cut out from under him about the time he started doing something offensively. Who knows what happens if he wasn't forced to gut the team.

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04-23-2014, 03:58 PM
  #355
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Dmitri Khristich was a good offensive player, had a couple 30 goal plus seasons and multiple 70+ point seasons. He was a first line talent, though.

Michal Pivonka was a top 6 player as well.


The few seasons Zednik had were he was healthy he produced at a decent clip too but both are on the same line of players as our own Erat, Legwand, Hartnell and Hornqvist.


Jason Allison was a pretty damn good set-up man in his day. He had 95 points in the dead puck era. He just had major concussion and neck issues. He might have been a better offensive player than Bondra.

And then there's Andrew Brunette who absolutely sucked in Trotz system and then went on to score 59 points with Atlanta. Topped that with 69 points with Minnesota. Went on to the Avs and scored a measly 83 points.

The only player we've had under Trotz to do that was Kariya with 86.

That's what I'm wondering though, Brunette who played for Trotz in the AHL and barely looked like a bottom line player for Trotz in the NHL flourished once he left Trotz. Peverley leaves Nashville and puts up 55 points for Atlanta.

What if there were others that just didn't get noticed because Trotz held them back?

I not saying that's what has happened, I saying we don't know, as we've only had one coach.

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04-23-2014, 04:18 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
no, Poile "hits" in the draft about as often or better than any loing term GM has done, his "hits" are just heavily weighted toward defensemen and goaltenders.
My second sentence was obviously in the context of offensive forwards.

Sure we've drafted some stud defensemen and goaltenders. I'm not complaining about that. But the bane of our team for years has been first line offensive players. Dynamic guys. Those are the hardest guys to sign and/or trade for. Those are the guys we should be landing. I'm sure people will say it is hard, but it hasn't stopped a lot of teams from finding those talents ala Dallas, Detroit, San Jose, etc.

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04-23-2014, 04:44 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post

What if there were others that just didn't get noticed because Trotz held them back?

I not saying that's what has happened, I saying we don't know, as we've only had one coach.
I think this question right here is the reason so many people were/are ready for something new.

We may find out that part of the problem wasn't Trotz, that it was all Poile just drafting bad players. We may be wishing we had him back in a few years, but who really knows?

I think its the old chicken/egg battle for most people tbh. Did we not have good offensive players because Poile didn't draft any, or did Trotz cut them off at the knees?

I think its why so many people wanted to see both go.

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04-23-2014, 05:39 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
My second sentence was obviously in the context of offensive forwards.

Sure we've drafted some stud defensemen and goaltenders. I'm not complaining about that. But the bane of our team for years has been first line offensive players. Dynamic guys. Those are the hardest guys to sign and/or trade for. Those are the guys we should be landing. I'm sure people will say it is hard, but it hasn't stopped a lot of teams from finding those talents ala Dallas, Detroit, San Jose, etc.
but again, most teams dont have more than two of those type of guys at a time for any stretch.

If we had Hartnell and Radulov, both in their prime, along with the maturing Weber-Suter defense (maybe with Timonen retained as well if the firesale hadnt occurred) I think the '08 through '12 seasons would have been very different

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04-23-2014, 07:34 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
I think this question right here is the reason so many people were/are ready for something new.

We may find out that part of the problem wasn't Trotz, that it was all Poile just drafting bad players. We may be wishing we had him back in a few years, but who really knows?

I think its the old chicken/egg battle for most people tbh. Did we not have good offensive players because Poile didn't draft any, or did Trotz cut them off at the knees?

I think its why so many people wanted to see both go.
I think we will find the answer as early as next season.

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04-23-2014, 09:09 PM
  #360
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I think we will find the answer as early as next season.
I doubt it but hey who knows? It will be interesting to see, especially if you have someone like Wilson or Stalberg come out and score 30 or something. ( I don't think its even remotely possible )

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04-23-2014, 09:57 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
but again, most teams dont have more than two of those type of guys at a time for any stretch.

If we had Hartnell and Radulov, both in their prime, along with the maturing Weber-Suter defense (maybe with Timonen retained as well if the firesale hadnt occurred) I think the '08 through '12 seasons would have been very different
Hartnell shouldn't be in the discussion. He isn't that type of player. And regardless, still doesnt make up for Poile's inability to draft top offensive talent.

If you think a Hartnell and a Radulov means he's great at drafting offensive talent and that we are just as good at drafting then well just have to disagree.

It's always an excuse for Poile.

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04-23-2014, 10:02 PM
  #362
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I think Poile shares the blame well. He just got a slightly longer rope to hang himself with.

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04-23-2014, 10:31 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Hartnell shouldn't be in the discussion. He isn't that type of player. And regardless, still doesnt make up for Poile's inability to draft top offensive talent.

If you think a Hartnell and a Radulov means he's great at drafting offensive talent and that we are just as good at drafting then well just have to disagree.

It's always an excuse for Poile.
You act like its all or nothing. I never said drafting Hartnell and Radulov would qualify Poile as great at drafting offensive talent, but had they both played as Preds through their prime you are delusional if you dont think we would have been a significantly better team... and if having those two had allowed us to reach a conference final or two I believe the assessment of Poiles ability would be considerably different at this point.

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04-23-2014, 10:59 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
You act like its all or nothing. I never said drafting Hartnell and Radulov would qualify Poile as great at drafting offensive talent, but had they both played as Preds through their prime you are delusional if you dont think we would have been a significantly better team... and if having those two had allowed us to reach a conference final or two I believe the assessment of Poiles ability would be considerably different at this point.
Radulov dropped due to character questions. I still can't believe Poile drafted a risky player like that, but others did their homework better. I don't fault him for drafting Radulov, but I'm certainly not going give him some kind of roundabout pat on the back for it.

Hartnell is a complementary scoring line player.

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04-23-2014, 11:27 PM
  #365
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Radulov dropped due to character questions. I still can't believe Poile drafted a risky player like that, but others did their homework better. I don't fault him for drafting Radulov, but I'm certainly not going give him some kind of roundabout pat on the back for it.

Hartnell is a complementary scoring line player.
Youre not getting it.... the point is not whether those two are stars in their own right or not, the point is if two players who poile drafted had both played here in their prime and the result had been more sucess(which I believe is a very reasonable assumption) we wouldnt be having this discussion because the winning would have muted any argument.

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04-23-2014, 11:44 PM
  #366
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Youre not getting it.... the point is not whether those two are stars in their own right or not, the point is if two players who poile drafted had both played here in their prime and the result had been more sucess(which I believe is a very reasonable assumption) we wouldnt be having this discussion because the winning would have muted any argument.
Yes and if we drafted Benn and Lucic, and successfully retained Suter we wouldnt be having this discussion either because the winning would have muted any argument.

Reality trumps hypothetical on most days.

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04-24-2014, 12:40 AM
  #367
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no... because we had no Stamkos...
and they have no shea weber

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04-24-2014, 01:36 AM
  #368
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Yes and if we drafted Benn and Lucic, and successfully retained Suter we wouldnt be having this discussion either because the winning would have muted any argument.

Reality trumps hypothetical on most days.
What???

Reality is what im talking about. Poile, in reality, drafted two players who, for reasons beyond his control, didnt end up playing the prime of their careers here.

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04-24-2014, 01:38 AM
  #369
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and they have no shea weber
I know. I wasnt saying that to imply that Tampa is better or has a brighter future, just lamenting the fact that we dont have Stamkos....

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04-24-2014, 02:05 AM
  #370
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What???

Reality is what im talking about. Poile, in reality, drafted two players who, for reasons beyond his control, didnt end up playing the prime of their careers here.
You don't think Poile had control in the draft when other GMs were passing on Radulov because he was headcase?

I actually don't mind that he took a risk on Radulov, but he should hardly be congratulated on what might have hypothetical been in unicorn world. He took a risk on a headcase and it didn't pan out.

Harntell actually wanted to sign an extension with the Predators, the summer before the Liepold firesale. Poile per usual, dilly dallied in talks with his agent.

If we're stuck with Poile, we're going to be stuck as a franchise. The best thing he's done in the past 3 years was Martin Erat's idea.

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04-24-2014, 02:53 AM
  #371
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You don't think Poile had control in the draft when other GMs were passing on Radulov because he was headcase?

I actually don't mind that he took a risk on Radulov, but he should hardly be congratulated on what might have hypothetical been in unicorn world. He took a risk on a headcase and it didn't pan out.

Harntell actually wanted to sign an extension with the Predators, the summer before the Liepold firesale. Poile per usual, dilly dallied in talks with his agent.

If we're stuck with Poile, we're going to be stuck as a franchise. The best thing he's done in the past 3 years was Martin Erat's idea.
I tell you what the arguments in here will make your head spin. Poile is at fault for playing it safe and only drafting safe guys, then the one time he goes out on a limb and isn't safe he gets knocked for that too. I'm not a Poile fan by any stretch, I think he has made some serious errors over the years, but he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Radulov may have been a head case, but he is the best offensive talent this team has ever drafted. He is also possibly one of the reasons Poile has been " safe " ever since.

I'll also add the Legwand trade looks to be like it could end up being better than the Erat one.

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04-24-2014, 05:28 PM
  #372
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I tell you what the arguments in here will make your head spin. Poile is at fault for playing it safe and only drafting safe guys, then the one time he goes out on a limb and isn't safe he gets knocked for that too.
Actually I've said at least 3 times in this thread I don't fault him for taking a risk on Radulov.

But I'm not going to congratulate him on something that pan out either.

What is the definition of good GM? Someoen who takes calculated risks and wins in those calculations more than they lose. Poile usually loses when he takes risks. i.e. past trade deadlines, recent FA signings, holding onto Suter, Weber arbitration, etc.

But you are right, when he gets burned he typically goes back in turtle mode, taking turtle risks. I'm sure he'll be scouting the WCs for the next Linus Klasen or Peter Tenkrat soon. It's been 10 years since he's gone outside of "safe" with early forward drafting.

Poile rarely ventures outside of the safe zone. And when he does, it rarely works out. This dates back to his Washinton days and has a 2% chance of changing when he's 65 years old.

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05-23-2014, 09:37 PM
  #373
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Outsider Q: who are Trotz "guys" so to speak past or present Preds who would like to play for him again. Thanks.

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05-24-2014, 05:00 AM
  #374
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Outsider Q: who are Trotz "guys" so to speak past or present Preds who would like to play for him again. Thanks.
David Legwand
Joel Ward
Marty Erat
Cody Franson

Erat left because Nashville was going younger and rebuilding and he was looking for a contender. Ward left because he was looking for a big payday Poile was not going to give him. Franson was traded as bait to get Toronto to pick up Matthew Lombardi's albatross of a bad contract. All these guys are Trotz guys.
Trotz is a players' coach as long as you are not a young developing forward. If he trusts you in your own end and you're a high character guy then Trotz will love you. Otherwise it's doghouse city and more times than not, Trotz loses the key.

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05-24-2014, 06:58 AM
  #375
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I think putting Legwand and Franson down as Trotz guys is too funny. No one spent more time in Trotz doghouse than Legwand. Poile had to almost force Franson into the line-up.

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