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Michel Therrien

View Poll Results: Rate Michel Therrien
Good 157 49.37%
Average 119 37.42%
Bad 42 13.21%
Voters: 318. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-24-2014, 02:15 PM
  #176
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
You know a while back I stumbled on a Zen saying - or at least the writer thought it was Zen:

The world is as you see it.

If you think the world is a certain way you'll find the proof no matter how flimsy.
Well then, I guess what you see is never reality..

I get the saying, but I also believe there is a just middle where reality resides.

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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Let me ask you: How many is "a lot"? I agree with you there are some but hardly enough that makes it worth mentioning. Yes many stated they would have preferred the recruiting net to be larger AND I AGREED with them. But many of those posters - like me - have been won over by Therrien. He is a different coach. Most of his detractors which includes YOU haven't seen it yet.
Nobody enjoys having a limited pool to chose from, especially when the pool is made up of what many consider bottom end coaches. Those ''detractors'' had/have no issues giving credit to Therrien for the team's performances last year and round 1. But they brought up some very real questions about this year's regular season. I don't know why this is such a big deal for some to recognize.

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Originally Posted by onice View Post
hockeyfan2k11, Kriss & Lafleurs Guy are huge Therrien detractors and they make sure everyone knows it. They never once mentioned the francophone stuff. They stubbornly hold onto their views despite the facts presented but they have yet to mention it's because he was selected solely of languages spoken. They don't like him because probably they remember him from the last time he was here and the sofffff rant in Pittsburgh. As I mentioned a number of times I rolled my eyes when I heard he was hired. Not because they limited their scope but because I remembered Therrien from his previous stint here.
What in god's name are you talking about? I don't care that he's french. I had no issues with the hiring of Martin. I wanted us to really make a strong pitch to Robinson because I think he was the best candidate that also spoke french, and if we're to replace Therrien I'd like Boucher to replace him. So, no. I'm not criticizing Therrien because he speaks french. I'm not even criticizing him because of whatever he did in Pittsburgh or his first time around. What's done is done. We hired him, you can go back to the hiring threads, I said there's nothing we can really do anymore so might as well just give him a chance and hopefully he'll have learned from his previous experiences. So I did just that, and was pleased with his performance last season.
So really, I have no idea what you're babbling about.

This year, I criticized Therrien because:
-he bashed and handled a Norris winner like he was a problem player
-he focused all the offensive opportunities on one center when we had other players that could also benefit from it.
-he didn't try anything new during camp ; Galchenyuk wasn't even tried at center there, which really disappointed me.
-he was unable to fix the PP
-he lead the team to an abysmal ES performance for most of the year
-the majority of our players regressed or had close to career lows.
-he had a clear double standard with players ; PK does a mistake, he's blasted, Bouillon does the same and no mention of it-no consequence either.
-he changed the system for whatever reason, which instantly lead to worst ES play.

It's because of those reasons that I criticized Therrien this year. Absolutely jack crap to do with whether he's french or not, or what he did the first time around or in Pittsburgh.
The playoffs started, and I have no problems giving props to Therrien for how we came to play.

I've repeated this about a million times already, so maybe that zen quote actually applies on you.

I'm not a huge Therrien detractor. If people are discussing him, I will give my thoughts. All that I have brought up from him are pure facts.

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Old
04-24-2014, 02:39 PM
  #177
Brainiac
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I don't disagree with you.

My point is that you'd expect a 100 point team to be well in the black. But the underlying numbers aren't impressive - and (while your point is well taken) we did actually allow more 5 on 5 goals than we scored.

Anyways... no point continuing this. I'm out.
True we could have been better than even at 5 on 5. But it's not like it was a huge problem. And acquiring Vanek certainly helped in that regard (at least in terms of scoring chances).

Fun fact, we scored 11 goals at 4 on 4 while allowing only 6. If we want to count that as 'even strength', we end up with 147 goals for and 144 goals against.

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04-24-2014, 02:42 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
This year, I criticized Therrien because:
-he bashed and handled a Norris winner like he was a problem player
-he focused all the offensive opportunities on one center when we had other players that could also benefit from it.
-he didn't try anything new during camp ; Galchenyuk wasn't even tried at center there, which really disappointed me.
-he was unable to fix the PP
-he lead the team to an abysmal ES performance for most of the year
-the majority of our players regressed or had close to career lows.
-he had a clear double standard with players ; PK does a mistake, he's blasted, Bouillon does the same and no mention of it-no consequence either.
-he changed the system for whatever reason, which instantly lead to worst ES play.
-True, to an extent
-Not true. When the Eller line was performing at the beginning of the season, he stuck with them. When Desharnais was struggling, he even had him as a healthy scratch. Obviously, he turned out to be correct in giving our first line most of the offensive duties, eventually.
-Camp is about testing out young players and warming up veterans; you don't try new strategies in the pre-season.
-He isn't exactly responsible for the PP...
-True, but that style of play turned out to be effective in the first round of the playoffs
-Completely untrue. Desharnais, Pacioretty, Markov, Gorges, Price and others all had amazing seasons.
-Agreed, he hasn't been too great with Subban. He does, however, hold him to higher standards, which isn't always a bad thing.
-The change of system is working for us, and has been working for us for the last 20 games or so. It is an effective system in the playoffs. Grinding teams win in the playoffs, and that's what we've become.

In the end, most of your points are flawed or flat-out wrong. I didn't appreciate Therrien much for the season but if he keeps coaching like this, I will continue to eat my words.

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Old
04-24-2014, 02:51 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
-True, to an extent
-Not true. When the Eller line was performing at the beginning of the season, he stuck with them. When Desharnais was struggling, he even had him as a healthy scratch. Obviously, he turned out to be correct in giving our first line most of the offensive duties, eventually.
-Camp is about testing out young players and warming up veterans; you don't try new strategies in the pre-season.
-He isn't exactly responsible for the PP...
-True, but that style of play turned out to be effective in the first round of the playoffs
-Completely untrue. Desharnais, Pacioretty, Markov, Gorges, Price and others all had amazing seasons.
-Agreed, he hasn't been too great with Subban. He does, however, hold him to higher standards, which isn't always a bad thing.
-The change of system is working for us, and has been working for us for the last 20 games or so. It is an effective system in the playoffs. Grinding teams win in the playoffs, and that's what we've become.

In the end, most of your points are flawed or flat-out wrong. I didn't appreciate Therrien much for the season but if he keeps coaching like this, I will continue to eat my words.
You're not paying attention. We went back to playing last year's system as soon as we got to the playoffs.

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04-24-2014, 02:56 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
You're not paying attention. We went back to playing last year's system as soon as we got to the playoffs.
@overlords

Actually habs played both style. They were on offense when needed and more defensive when it was the time to. But lol, ofc they couldnt hold the lead game 4.

As i typed earlier, i prefer more offense but if they only used one style, it look like its coming back to bite them. They need to find the middle and they will be a CONSTANT dangerous team.


''overlords is one of my favorite people on this entire site''. - ripforumrds


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Old
04-24-2014, 03:31 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
"Guys, their goalie sucks. Just shoot the puck"

Sweep!

Not saying that's all Therrien did, but when a team relies on their goalie to win them games and that goalie is replaced by a sieve, I'd say that team is pretty much screwed, no? I think we should all wait and see how the team performs against Boston/Detroit before hailing MT.
Like I said, I have been critical at times of MT, including the game plan of this past season. All I am saying is that at least MT structured a game plan against the Bolts that made sense ( going back to last years system by the way, which should not have been changed in my view, but that is besides the point ) and I give him credit for that. I am not calling him a genius or anything and absolutely we need to see what he does next. However, it would not be fair of me to be critical only and not give him credit when it is due.

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Old
04-24-2014, 03:39 PM
  #182
David Thicke
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You try to make it sound pretty simplistic. There were reasons for Therrien's change in philosophy this season...at the start of the season, Briere wasn't playing well..he was a step slow..and thus Ryder/Cole wasn't being adequately replaced. Also Desharnais went into a slump, and then Eller...Bourque was in a season long slump, Gio wasn't producing, Pleks wasn't scoring much... We can argue until the cows come home that it's somehow Therrien's fault for Eller's slump and anyone else's..the fact remains Eller wasn't the same player he was before his face slam.

Therrien and the coaches surmised that there wasn't enough offensive talent to play an overly aggressive forecheck game..so the best way to win was to grind out victories...the tactic worked pretty well..the Habs stayed in a playoff position all season.

Then the deal for Vanek happened..he was eventually put with DD and Patch; Plek, Gio, Briere and Eller started playing better....the coaches concluded that there was now enough offensive depth again to be more aggressive offensively.

Coaches are allowed to change tactics during the season..it's not a bad thing..it's good in fact..shows some flexibility.

That has been what has impressed me most about Therrien this season - he has been adaptable and flexible. He really has matured as a coach. He didn't panic or throw anyone under the bus when the team faced adversity after the Olympics...he stopped criticizing players publicly and began praising more often... he has been willing to address his faults,and change his ways.

I've also done some changing..I've changed my opinion on his abilities as a coach. He's improved substantially. I think Bergy, Carriere and Duds deserve some credit for that..as do Gallant JJD and Jodoin. It's becoming evident that the management and coaching staffs are co-existing comfortably, and there is respect.
I agree with you completely and have also changed my opinion on his coaching abilities. I was never sure he was the right guy when he was hired but so far Therrien is proving me wrong.

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04-24-2014, 03:42 PM
  #183
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Hey, why don't we trade coaches with Pittsburgh? Check out their board for feedback on their coach.

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04-24-2014, 03:44 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
You're not paying attention. We went back to playing last year's system as soon as we got to the playoffs.
Why would Therrien do this though ? Why try and implement a system for 82 games only to throw it in the garbage when the playoffs come around ? Did he only realize after 82 games that the system overhaul didn't work ?


Is this all a master plan to throw a curveball at opposing coaches that will try to base their game strategies on our regular season system ?

If the system change, what exactly did he change ? Is the forechecking scheme that different or are the players simply applying themselves and executing it better ? Is the breakout scheme really different ? Do our forwards come back further in the defensive end to offer better passing options ?

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04-24-2014, 03:50 PM
  #185
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
1-True, to an extent
2-Not true. When the Eller line was performing at the beginning of the season, he stuck with them. When Desharnais was struggling, he even had him as a healthy scratch. Obviously, he turned out to be correct in giving our first line most of the offensive duties, eventually.
3-Camp is about testing out young players and warming up veterans; you don't try new strategies in the pre-season.
4-He isn't exactly responsible for the PP...
5-True, but that style of play turned out to be effective in the first round of the playoffs
6-Completely untrue. Desharnais, Pacioretty, Markov, Gorges, Price and others all had amazing seasons.
7-Agreed, he hasn't been too great with Subban. He does, however, hold him to higher standards, which isn't always a bad thing.
8-The change of system is working for us, and has been working for us for the last 20 games or so. It is an effective system in the playoffs. Grinding teams win in the playoffs, and that's what we've become.

In the end, most of your points are flawed or flat-out wrong. I didn't appreciate Therrien much for the season but if he keeps coaching like this, I will continue to eat my words.
1- To an extent or not, it is true. He reduced his role benching him late in periods, even over extremely reliable vets like Bouillon and Murray. Not to mention the public bashing. If you can't even admit that point, I'm pretty sure you'll have a pretty biased opinion going forward.

2-No, it is true, and even you admitted it. DD got the bulk of the offensive opportunities since mid-november. Whatever reason you want to attribute this too doesn't change the cold hard fact that ONE center got the bulk of the opportunities. So again, I was completely correct.

3- Camp is about a lot of things, not just one aspect. Trying new lines is part of it. Letting your vets get back in game shape is another. Also, Galchenyuk is a youngster, and he's seen as our next franchise center. Giving him some center time during preseason makes total sense. Really, you're arguing against this? w-t-f

4- He's the coach no? If you delegated a task to an employee of yours and he's failing at it, you're just going to sit by the sidelines and watch him fail? That would be even worse than actually stepping in and failing yourself! What a horrible argument!

5- We are not playing the same way we did in the regular season. Just looking at shots, we have outshot TB by 8.5shots on avg. During the regular season, we were outshot by 2.6. That is a difference of 10 shots. That's huge buddy. It's a small sample size, but the way we played in the POs has nothing to do with how we played in the regular season. The two man forecheck reappeared, as opposed to the one man. Again, I'm not diving into the reasons, just stating the obvious. We are not playing the same.

6- First off, nobody had an ''amazing'' season. At least not to my standards. I mean, you listed a 53pts DD as amazing. Clearly we have different standards.

7- There's a difference between holding a player to higher standard and having a double standard. If you're going to call out a player for losing a game, and then not do the same for another, I view it as a double standard. Does he hold PK to a higher standard? Of course, but you crossover to the double standard side when you publicly lash out on him, or start benching him over others that do just as worse mistakes.

8- I don't think people even know what a grinding team is anymore. Or at least, everybody has a different opinion of it. To me it's a team that's constantly chasing, and very physical, dumping the puck out of zones. So how can you say we were one when we had the puck most of the time during this series?

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04-24-2014, 03:54 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by JAVO16 View Post
Why would Therrien do this though ? Why try and implement a system for 82 games only to throw it in the garbage when the playoffs come around ? Did he only realize after 82 games that the system overhaul didn't work ?


Is this all a master plan to throw a curveball at opposing coaches that will try to base their game strategies on our regular season system ?

If the system change, what exactly did he change ? Is the forechecking scheme that different or are the players simply applying themselves and executing it better ? Is the breakout scheme really different ? Do our forwards come back further in the defensive end to offer better passing options ?
Forwards are much closer to the D in the defensive zone and our forecheck is much more aggressive. We're also using more speed and creativity in the neutral zone. No longer trying the long-bomb everytime to players waiting at the other team's blue line.

There's actually a quote by Cooper that says something like ' They didn't play like this during the regular season. They used to be in their zone way more. Adjusting to their change in playstyle took us a few games."

Something like that anyway. One theory I heard early on in the season was that perhaps the coaching staff believed the more aggressive playstyle was harder on their bodies. Maybe they decided to play that way to avoid injuries and then change it in the offseason when **** mattered?

All I know is that they definitely changed a lot, and it was evident about 10 minutes into the first game against tampa.

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04-24-2014, 03:55 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by JAVO16 View Post
Why would Therrien do this though ? Why try and implement a system for 82 games only to throw it in the garbage when the playoffs come around ? Did he only realize after 82 games that the system overhaul didn't work ?


Is this all a master plan to throw a curveball at opposing coaches that will try to base their game strategies on our regular season system ?

If the system change, what exactly did he change ? Is the forechecking scheme that different or are the players simply applying themselves and executing it better ? Is the breakout scheme really different ? Do our forwards come back further in the defensive end to offer better passing options ?
I think it's more because during the regular season, you focus more on your team. No matter who you play against, there's not enough time for you to adjust to a whole new strategy from game to game. So you identify the way you want to play and ride it all season.
During the POs, strategy is more important. You focus more on the flaws of your opponents and try to exploit them. TB's weakness was their Defense and Goaltending. Using our speed to enter the zone, cycling the puck down low, shooting and shooting and shooting made total sense.

Will we use the same strategy in the next round? We'll see.

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04-24-2014, 04:45 PM
  #188
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Hey, why don't we trade coaches with Pittsburgh? Check out their board for feedback on their coach.
I believe Pittsburgh traded Therien for Bylsma and won a cup. I doubt they want MT back.

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04-24-2014, 04:50 PM
  #189
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If my coach wasnt able to past round 2 or 3 with the team bylsma have, i'd ask myself serious question. If pitts were the habs with the same lineup they ( pitts ) have atm, Bylsma hate would be much higher than MT.

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04-24-2014, 05:14 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by RIPFORUMRDS View Post
If my coach wasnt able to past round 2 or 3 with the team bylsma have, i'd ask myself serious question. If pitts were the habs with the same lineup they ( pitts ) have atm, Bylsma hate would be much higher than MT.
I don't understand how people praise Bylsma for the cup and dump on MT. MT brought the team to the SCF. Then people say the pens were stacked and anyone could have done it. Except that since that time, Pens have gotten more experience, added Neal and gotten a more solid defense but Bylsma just keeps losing with a stacked team. It's looking more and more like Bylsma coasted on MT's hard work in his first season since he hasn't been able to do anything with better teams since then. The guy is 2 losses away from being fired.

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04-24-2014, 05:40 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I don't understand how people praise Bylsma for the cup and dump on MT. MT brought the team to the SCF. Then people say the pens were stacked and anyone could have done it. Except that since that time, Pens have gotten more experience, added Neal and gotten a more solid defense but Bylsma just keeps losing with a stacked team. It's looking more and more like Bylsma coasted on MT's hard work in his first season since he hasn't been able to do anything with better teams since then. The guy is 2 losses away from being fired.
But then, that'd be praising MT for something, admitting he isnt as bad as some make him out to be. It'd also be against the narrative of a few, a narrative they use to excuse some players performance, as its much more easy to blame it on the HC (and others depending on the situation).

MAF is having problems since a few years (he's actually been good these playoffs compared to the last few). Its obviously not because he has issues but because of Bylsma's presence.

I really like the logic of some. Just keep repeating some stuff non-stop until it becomes the truth. Then, if a poster doesnt agree with the said narrative, he has to be clueless. Of course, this makes sense.


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04-24-2014, 06:45 PM
  #192
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You know a while back I stumbled on a Zen saying - or at least the writer thought it was Zen:

The world is as you see it.

If you think the world is a certain way you'll find the proof no matter how flimsy.

Let me ask you: How many is "a lot"? I agree with you there are some but hardly enough that makes it worth mentioning. Yes many stated they would have preferred the recruiting net to be larger AND I AGREED with them. But many of those posters - like me - have been won over by Therrien. He is a different coach. Most of his detractors which includes YOU haven't seen it yet.

hockeyfan2k11, Kriss & Lafleurs Guy are huge Therrien detractors and they make sure everyone knows it. They never once mentioned the francophone stuff. They stubbornly hold onto their views despite the facts presented but they have yet to mention it's because he was selected solely of languages spoken. They don't like him because probably they remember him from the last time he was here and the sofffff rant in Pittsburgh. As I mentioned a number of times I rolled my eyes when I heard he was hired. Not because they limited their scope but because I remembered Therrien from his previous stint here.

The sense I get is that a very small minority of posters dislike Therrien and believe he got the job only because he is a francophone. After all you are constantly reminding us yeah he's doing alright but Roy would do better. Does that mean you prefer only certain francophones?
Okay first you are asking me what is "a lot". Yet, the phrase after you,re saying yourself "MANY prefered the recruiting net to be larger....See my A LOT, add your MANY, and I guess it's something in between....but it,s surely more than "hardly enough to worth mentioning".

Now, yes....I do have some preferences. Not sure why I shouldn't...we have all preferences over GM's, coaches and players. So in the requirement we have to use, I think there's enough candidates to be able to have preferences.

As far as Therrien's work...well yes, we did great in the regular season. Yet.....people were still waiting for the playoffs to assess his work. Personnally, we did very good and kudos to him. But I can't officially say I'm on his bandwagon after beating arguably, the worst team in the playoffs based on the fact that they didn,t have their #1 goalie. I still believed prior to those playoffs that TBAy would win (thinking Bishop would be there), and frankly, even with Bishop, seeing how we played, I would have probably be wrong....would have taken more games....but we probably would have won anyway. But I think that the work of a coach should be determined based on the performance of your team when you shouldn't have a chance at winning. I see us having NO chance at winning against Boston. No chance as in 0. Not saying it would be blowouts every game. Now....we don't have to win. But if every game are incredibly close, and if we go far in that series 6 or 7 games....and if the reason why we lost are stupid mistakes, bad goaltending, incredible lack of scoring by the 1st line.....something kinda out of Therrien's hands....I will then acknowledge him. I will. He's still will never be one of my favorite persona.....I would still always prefer other guys.....but I will totally acknowledge him and deal with the fact that he's our coach. I would always belive that Roy or Boucher would have been much more prefereable (still laugh at people bashing Boucher for his TBay stint, saying he wasn't that good after all yet....were they realizing that his goalies were Garon, Roloson and....Lindback?). But I also did acknowledge that Therrien wasn't as bad as I thought he'd be. Not sure why you're saying I don't acknowledge him.....

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04-24-2014, 07:04 PM
  #193
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I don't think Therrien is a bad coach... I prefer him to Jacques Martin when it comes to almost everything (i.e. his hockey decision)...

My main issue with Therrien is I don't like when he flies off the handle, esp. in the playoffs... There was that costly penalty during his first stint in Montreal in the playoffs... Then last year vs Ottawa, I was forced to support and defend all his antics in his post-game press conferences... He could have brought up the issue that upset him once, then shut up. Not lose focus and continually bring up "Respect", "No respect" "Class"... He looked ridiculous, petulant and helpless.

If I'm one of the players, the last guy I want to see having no self-control and losing objectivity is my coach... And his outburst are pointless. Do they scare the other team? The other coach? The ref? The NHL? They might scare a 17 year old kid, that's about all... I pray that if the Habs hit a rut in the road, he doesn't lose it again...

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04-24-2014, 08:15 PM
  #194
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You're not paying attention. We went back to playing last year's system as soon as we got to the playoffs.
Damn it man, I really can't tell if you're being sarcastic here. If so, please elaborate! If not, you got me! Because last season we played puck-side attack in the D-zone, and this season we changed to play more positionally- focusing on shot-blocking and clogging up lanes. That's what we did in these playoffs as well. Also, we didn't have the two-man forecheck last season, and we have implemented it recently. These playoffs we have been working hard on clogging theneutral zone, which is what we have been doing all season. Last year, it was more about puck pressure. This year, it is about playing sound positionally and giving them no room. At least that's how I see it. I don't think it makes sense to say that we suddenly changed our system when we made the playoffs! But I'm no professional.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
1- To an extent or not, it is true. He reduced his role benching him late in periods, even over extremely reliable vets like Bouillon and Murray. Not to mention the public bashing. If you can't even admit that point, I'm pretty sure you'll have a pretty biased opinion going forward.

2-No, it is true, and even you admitted it. DD got the bulk of the offensive opportunities since mid-november. Whatever reason you want to attribute this too doesn't change the cold hard fact that ONE center got the bulk of the opportunities. So again, I was completely correct.

3- Camp is about a lot of things, not just one aspect. Trying new lines is part of it. Letting your vets get back in game shape is another. Also, Galchenyuk is a youngster, and he's seen as our next franchise center. Giving him some center time during preseason makes total sense. Really, you're arguing against this? w-t-f

4- He's the coach no? If you delegated a task to an employee of yours and he's failing at it, you're just going to sit by the sidelines and watch him fail? That would be even worse than actually stepping in and failing yourself! What a horrible argument!

5- We are not playing the same way we did in the regular season. Just looking at shots, we have outshot TB by 8.5shots on avg. During the regular season, we were outshot by 2.6. That is a difference of 10 shots. That's huge buddy. It's a small sample size, but the way we played in the POs has nothing to do with how we played in the regular season. The two man forecheck reappeared, as opposed to the one man. Again, I'm not diving into the reasons, just stating the obvious. We are not playing the same.

6- First off, nobody had an ''amazing'' season. At least not to my standards. I mean, you listed a 53pts DD as amazing. Clearly we have different standards.

7- There's a difference between holding a player to higher standard and having a double standard. If you're going to call out a player for losing a game, and then not do the same for another, I view it as a double standard. Does he hold PK to a higher standard? Of course, but you crossover to the double standard side when you publicly lash out on him, or start benching him over others that do just as worse mistakes.

8- I don't think people even know what a grinding team is anymore. Or at least, everybody has a different opinion of it. To me it's a team that's constantly chasing, and very physical, dumping the puck out of zones. So how can you say we were one when we had the puck most of the time during this series?
1- I only said to an extent because you said Therrien bashed him, which I don't think he ever did. But I agree his use of Subban hasn't been very good this season.

2- The reason Desharnais got the bulk of the offensive opportunities, whether you like it or not, is because he is the top center and the most offensively-minded one. Plekanec, Eller and 4th line centers are more likely to take defensive zone faceoffs because, well, they are at better at defense. And so are their linemates. Are you really trying to say that you want DD, Patches and Vanek starting in our own end? It only makes sense to have your offensive line start in the offensive zone, while your more defensive-minded centers start where they are better.

3- I don't understand why it's such a big deal for you to give Galchenyuk a position at center during training camp. What's that going to do for him? Nothing. It's... training camp. During pre-season, maybe I would've agreed with you. But camp? w-t-f

4- What are you talking about? Therrien has been working on powerplays for the past couple of weeks! What kind of argument are you even trying to make? You're just throwing every single complaint you have at Therrien and hoping ti sticks, despite the fact that he isn't even in charge of the powerplay. And then you complain that he didn't try to fix it, when in fact, he made numerous changes to the PP throughout the season and has been running it at practice a ton lately. Have you been paying any attention at all? Stop whining about something Therrien isn't even responsible for. Come on...

5- Ah I see. So we magically changed our system as soon as we made the playoffs. Sure. Not only that, but our poor ES play during the season is all Therrien's fault, yet our strong ES play during the playoffs isn't to his credit at all. This all makes so much sense. Dude, we were fourth in the conference. Obviously Therrien was doing something right...

6- Desharnais was PPG-pace for the latter 2/3rds of the season. He had an amazing season after his awful, awful start. Pacioretty scored 39 goals and has become a league-renowned scoring threat. Price had a fantastic season, as did others. But sure, nitpick one player you don't agree with, ignore the others I mentioned, and continue whining that no one performed well. That isn't crazy at all.

7- I agree that he didn't treat PK well throughout the season, I was merely playing devil's advocate that he has higher standards for PK than Bouillon. Regardless, Therrien wants PK to be successful just as much as we do.

8- Well, Therrien himself clarified what he meant by that comment if you ever followed up on it:

"That's a process, and that's the way I see it," Therrien said, justifying a mentality he intended to cultivate throughout the season. "For me, hard work is the most important thing. Skill--yes, you need skill. But hard work is always going to beat skill," the coach surmised in explaining how he wanted his team to interpret that now-famous comment.

And look where his grinding strategy has gotten us so far. Face it, you are nitpicking so much that it almost looks like you want Therrien and the Habs to fail. The guy coached a fantastic series, and you should be happy about that. Here's to the Habs continuing their success into the next round.


Last edited by JohnLennon: 04-24-2014 at 08:20 PM.
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Old
04-24-2014, 09:59 PM
  #195
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
Damn it man, I really can't tell if you're being sarcastic here. If so, please elaborate! If not, you got me! Because last season we played puck-side attack in the D-zone, and this season we changed to play more positionally- focusing on shot-blocking and clogging up lanes. That's what we did in these playoffs as well. Also, we didn't have the two-man forecheck last season, and we have implemented it recently. These playoffs we have been working hard on clogging theneutral zone, which is what we have been doing all season. Last year, it was more about puck pressure. This year, it is about playing sound positionally and giving them no room. At least that's how I see it. I don't think it makes sense to say that we suddenly changed our system when we made the playoffs! But I'm no professional.



1- I only said to an extent because you said Therrien bashed him, which I don't think he ever did. But I agree his use of Subban hasn't been very good this season.

2- The reason Desharnais got the bulk of the offensive opportunities, whether you like it or not, is because he is the top center and the most offensively-minded one. Plekanec, Eller and 4th line centers are more likely to take defensive zone faceoffs because, well, they are at better at defense. And so are their linemates. Are you really trying to say that you want DD, Patches and Vanek starting in our own end? It only makes sense to have your offensive line start in the offensive zone, while your more defensive-minded centers start where they are better.

3- I don't understand why it's such a big deal for you to give Galchenyuk a position at center during training camp. What's that going to do for him? Nothing. It's... training camp. During pre-season, maybe I would've agreed with you. But camp? w-t-f

4- What are you talking about? Therrien has been working on powerplays for the past couple of weeks! What kind of argument are you even trying to make? You're just throwing every single complaint you have at Therrien and hoping ti sticks, despite the fact that he isn't even in charge of the powerplay. And then you complain that he didn't try to fix it, when in fact, he made numerous changes to the PP throughout the season and has been running it at practice a ton lately. Have you been paying any attention at all? Stop whining about something Therrien isn't even responsible for. Come on...

5- Ah I see. So we magically changed our system as soon as we made the playoffs. Sure. Not only that, but our poor ES play during the season is all Therrien's fault, yet our strong ES play during the playoffs isn't to his credit at all. This all makes so much sense. Dude, we were fourth in the conference. Obviously Therrien was doing something right...

6- Desharnais was PPG-pace for the latter 2/3rds of the season. He had an amazing season after his awful, awful start. Pacioretty scored 39 goals and has become a league-renowned scoring threat. Price had a fantastic season, as did others. But sure, nitpick one player you don't agree with, ignore the others I mentioned, and continue whining that no one performed well. That isn't crazy at all.

7- I agree that he didn't treat PK well throughout the season, I was merely playing devil's advocate that he has higher standards for PK than Bouillon. Regardless, Therrien wants PK to be successful just as much as we do.

8- Well, Therrien himself clarified what he meant by that comment if you ever followed up on it:

"That's a process, and that's the way I see it," Therrien said, justifying a mentality he intended to cultivate throughout the season. "For me, hard work is the most important thing. Skill--yes, you need skill. But hard work is always going to beat skill," the coach surmised in explaining how he wanted his team to interpret that now-famous comment.

And look where his grinding strategy has gotten us so far. Face it, you are nitpicking so much that it almost looks like you want Therrien and the Habs to fail. The guy coached a fantastic series, and you should be happy about that. Here's to the Habs continuing their success into the next round.

1- Therrien publicly blamed PK for losses. This despite preaching team spirit, team first, team team team. You win as a team, you lose as a team. And yet, he had no issues blaming PK for losses, and on more than one occasion. If you don't remember that, then you really have no business arguing over what Therrien did. Dig up the archives, you can find all the post game interviews. It's all there for you to see.

2- Plekanec is the top center, always has and will keep being it. So already, you're wrong. As for DD being our best offensive center, again, Plekanec when given a similar role to DD has produced more than DD ever did. So again, you're wrong. Finally, we also have Eller that whether you believe or not, needs his share of offensive opportunities if you want him to develop those skills. Developing younger players is part of the coach's job. I don't think he did that good of a job with Gallagher-Galchenyuk and Eller. They either stalled in their development or regressed.
It's not just about offensive zone faceoffs. They don't need to completely stop giving DD's line the offensive opportunities. Seriously why does it always have to be extremes?? Why can't we just keep putting Eller on the PP? Why does DD's line has to remain intact and be the 1st on on the PP? Especially when it's not working anyways.
And on our team like ours, where there wasn't any premiere talent up front, having a few lines producing is key. But no, we relied on one line, and the rest of the time, Price had to play stellar.

3- It's not a big deal. It's just another thing I didn't like. Galchenyuk is set to become our next big center. So why not try it out during exhibition games? Why not try a bunch of different combinations that way you're prepared and already have an idea of what you could do if your players are cold. It's not a huge deal but still something I didn't like. Maybe you don't care to be a little more prepared, or see what our future star can do as a center, but I do.

4- I didn't complain that he didn't try to fix it, I said he failed to fix it. Big difference. I don't care who is in given the task to make the PP work, he is the boss, responsibilities fall on him, he oversees all coaching decisions. They've been working on it, I'm sure, no doubt. Hopefully they can rekindle some magic in the POs. But in the regular season it has plummeted and couldn't be fixed.

5- First off I give credit to Therrien for these POs (and last season), so once again, you are just flat out wrong. Second, I don't know what are the reasons but we did change our style. Maybe it's because Therrien recognized TB's weaknesses and opted to exploit them. Maybe it's because, as others have mentioned, it's because he feels playing a more upbeat style would have fatigued us. Overlords brought it up before too, even Cooper, the coach of TB, said he didn't feel like we played the same way in the POs as we did in the season. Even he said so. So I know I'm not crazy.
Yes, he did some good things. He also did some bad things, and that's what we're discussing. Trying to argue that the actual system was good is foolish when all the stats are there to back up the opposite. The stats are there for you, look them up. That is if the eye test wasn't conclusive enough already..

6- Nitpicking? You're the one that's bringing up a couple of names. I said the vast majority had worst seasons, some close to career lows. Our kids didn't improve. So how am I nitpicking?? And then you say DD had an amazing 2/3rd??? Who's freaking nitpicking again??
Dude, the majority of our guys did not improve, there is no wrong in admitting that.

7- I'm sure he wants PK to be the best Dman in the NHL. No doubt. But that has nothing to do with my point.

8- I have no issues with hard work. Our team has been hard working since Therrien has come in, no doubt, and props to him for that. Every team that has success will need to work hard. Doesn't mean you need to tell your Dmen to throw the puck off the board/glass at every opportunity. Doesn't mean you need to tell your forwards to cheat and stay far from your Dman so we can cause confusion in the zone and hesitation with the puck leading to a very poor transitional game. Doesn't mean you have to dump the puck and chase it the majority of the time. Doesn't mean you need to have a passive one man forecheck. Which is what his ''detractors'' brought up.



I'm not sure how I'm nitpicking anything. I gave credit to Therrien for last season. Really loved how we played. Sure, little things here and there I didn't like too much, but overall he did a great job.
I love the way we played in the POs thus far. Sure, TB was battered, but sweeping them exceeds my expectations. You can even ask Whitesnake, I told him there was absolutely no way we lose this series, that our depth was going to be key, but I also told him that if we sweep I'd be surprised. So major kudos to Therrien for that.

Now tell me, why would somebody that just wants to nitpick on Therrien have no problem giving him props on last season and these POs??? Why would I criticize him for this regular season for no reason, but praise him for last year and now??? How does this make any sense???

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04-24-2014, 10:18 PM
  #196
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04-24-2014, 10:30 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Now tell me, why would somebody that just wants to nitpick on Therrien have no problem giving him props on last season and these POs??? Why would I criticize him for this regular season for no reason, but praise him for last year and now??? How does this make any sense???
I don't know what's inside your head, what your motivation might be. My guess - based on your persistent argument - is that you overly rely on advanced stats in your analysis of Therrien. Better stats in 2013 - props to Therrien, although it was only a 48 game season that started to go south at about the 35th game and an early exit in the playoffs.

This year, poor possession stats, etc. but a 100 point season over 82 games, played their best hockey the last 10 games of the season, swept TB in the first round, but no props to Therrien, just a backhanded compliment.

Advanced stats are here to stay in hockey no doubt, but they are not as relevant as in baseball for example. There are certain very important factors in hockey that cannot be quantified in a stat - such as intimidation, selflessness, etc. Therrien has done a very good job building a team first mentality - that also has to be part of the evaluation.

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04-24-2014, 10:44 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
I don't know what's inside your head, what your motivation might be. My guess - based on your persistent argument - is that you overly rely on advanced stats in your analysis of Therrien. Better stats in 2013 - props to Therrien, although it was only a 48 game season that started to go south at about the 35th game and an early exit in the playoffs.

This year, poor possession stats, etc. but a 100 point season over 82 games, played their best hockey the last 10 games of the season, swept TB in the first round, but no props to Therrien, just a backhanded compliment.

Advanced stats are here to stay in hockey no doubt, but they are not as relevant as in baseball for example. There are certain very important factors in hockey that cannot be quantified in a stat - such as intimidation, selflessness, etc. Therrien has done a very good job building a team first mentality - that also has to be part of the evaluation.
The habs didn't come anywhere close to playing their best hockey in the last 10 games. Not sure which team you were watching. And I'm not quite sure you need advanced stats to see the difference between this year and last year's teams.

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04-24-2014, 11:30 PM
  #199
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The habs didn't come anywhere close to playing their best hockey in the last 10 games. Not sure which team you were watching. And I'm not quite sure you need advanced stats to see the difference between this year and last year's teams.
I dunno - the team the finished the year 11-3-1?

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04-25-2014, 07:30 AM
  #200
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
I don't know what's inside your head, what your motivation might be. My guess - based on your persistent argument - is that you overly rely on advanced stats in your analysis of Therrien. Better stats in 2013 - props to Therrien, although it was only a 48 game season that started to go south at about the 35th game and an early exit in the playoffs.

This year, poor possession stats, etc. but a 100 point season over 82 games, played their best hockey the last 10 games of the season, swept TB in the first round, but no props to Therrien, just a backhanded compliment.

Advanced stats are here to stay in hockey no doubt, but they are not as relevant as in baseball for example. There are certain very important factors in hockey that cannot be quantified in a stat - such as intimidation, selflessness, etc. Therrien has done a very good job building a team first mentality - that also has to be part of the evaluation.
First off, last year we had a 5 game funk at the end of the year and people are now making it seem like it was a 15 game + PO funk. It wasn't. And our point percentage was pretty similar to this year, so what gives?
Yes, it must be because I'm inventing things of course.

It's not even about advanced stats, they only further back up the basic stats, and the basic ones back up what your eyes should pretty easily have seen.

I never said Therrien did absolutely nothing good, I actually gave him major props for the mentality our guys have been given. So no idea what you're talking about with backhanded compliments.

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