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Jessiman looks like a different player.

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Old
03-07-2007, 01:04 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by TheRedressor View Post
lmao I hope so.

Parise will be a 2nd line center for his career, the only way we don't regret not taking him is if Speciman becomes a 1st line PF.
He will be Adam Graves reincarnated only differance is that Hugh is a Right Wing.

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03-07-2007, 01:12 PM
  #102
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He will be Adam Graves reincarnated only differance is that Hugh is a Right Wing.
Comparing Graves to Jessiman at this point?

Hmm, i'll let the rest of the guys feast on this one...

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03-07-2007, 01:24 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
yeah, like they say, you cant teach size.

Well it's interesting because there has been a discussion ongoing about the merits of Colton Gillies as a prospect. What I find intriguing is that everyone agrees that the guy has a good frame that will fill out and he can skate as well or better than many of the top prospects. Two perceptions really stand out on the negative side for him:

1) He has hands of stone.

2) He has no hockey sense.

The knock on Jessiman is his lack of hockey sense. No one questions that he has at least a fair amount of skill(decent hands), that he skates very well(even for a big guy), and that his mind is in the right place. And I'll go against conventional wisdom here in saying that at least to some extent experience and a ton of hard work can overcome a lack of hockey sense. Keep crashing the net, finishing checks, back checking, etc., etc. and with time he will be a better player. Whether or not that means he ever plays an NHL game that is in anyway effective is still very much in doubt imo. But he seems to be taking some nice, positive steps in developing his game.

It's encouraging. Keep him in HFD and let him build on his recent, small success.

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03-07-2007, 01:45 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Well it's interesting because there has been a discussion ongoing about the merits of Colton Gillies as a prospect. What I find intriguing is that everyone agrees that the guy has a good frame that will fill out and he can skate as well or better than many of the top prospects. Two perceptions really stand out on the negative side for him:

1) He has hands of stone.

2) He has no hockey sense.

The knock on Jessiman is his lack of hockey sense. No one questions that he has at least a fair amount of skill(decent hands), that he skates very well(even for a big guy), and that his mind is in the right place. And I'll go against conventional wisdom here in saying that at least to some extent experience and a ton of hard work can overcome a lack of hockey sense. Keep crashing the net, finishing checks, back checking, etc., etc. and with time he will be a better player. Whether or not that means he ever plays an NHL game that is in anyway effective is still very much in doubt imo. But he seems to be taking some nice, positive steps in developing his game.

It's encouraging. Keep him in HFD and let him build on his recent, small success.

That is probably the biggest attribute to his game at this point, most guys at his size do not have the fantastic mobility that he does. That is what will make him dominate.

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03-07-2007, 02:07 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Well it's interesting because there has been a discussion ongoing about the merits of Colton Gillies as a prospect. What I find intriguing is that everyone agrees that the guy has a good frame that will fill out and he can skate as well or better than many of the top prospects. Two perceptions really stand out on the negative side for him:

1) He has hands of stone.

2) He has no hockey sense.

The knock on Jessiman is his lack of hockey sense. No one questions that he has at least a fair amount of skill(decent hands), that he skates very well(even for a big guy), and that his mind is in the right place. And I'll go against conventional wisdom here in saying that at least to some extent experience and a ton of hard work can overcome a lack of hockey sense. Keep crashing the net, finishing checks, back checking, etc., etc. and with time he will be a better player. Whether or not that means he ever plays an NHL game that is in anyway effective is still very much in doubt imo. But he seems to be taking some nice, positive steps in developing his game.

It's encouraging. Keep him in HFD and let him build on his recent, small success.
I dont think Hugh lacks hockey sense. What he lacks is reps. Canadian players who come throught the Juniors play 80+ games a year. Hugh came up through Connecticut Prep schools where they play maybe 25 games a year. He played for Dartmouth in his Freshman year 45 games. The next year w/ the ankle inury Hugh only played in a handful of games. Last year he played 60 or 70 games at the ECHL and AHL level. What Hugh really needs is to stay in the AHL this year,(although on some level I do want him on the Big team) and get 1st line and Power Play minutes. Hopefully the Pack can go far in the Playoffs 3-4 rounds and Hugh plays an additional 20 games with 1st line minutes. I think next year he would need 40 games in the AHL @ 1st line minutes. Could be a force for the Rangers in 2nd half of 07-08. I just hope the coaching staff sticks with him even though he may slump at some points. I would not take minutes away from Hugh.

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03-07-2007, 02:07 PM
  #106
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Jessiman could always morph into Mike Rupp, another highly touted (and drafted) big man who is now more of a checker/energy player who can fill in on a scoring line. I hope for more, but am realistic.

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03-07-2007, 02:11 PM
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I think think they should strap him to a chair Clockwork Orange style and make him watch Petr Prucha videos til he passes out. If only there was a way to get Prucha's brain into Jessiman's body....

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03-07-2007, 02:21 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Jessiman could always morph into Mike Rupp, another highly touted (and drafted) big man who is now more of a checker/energy player who can fill in on a scoring line. I hope for more, but am realistic.
Jessiman is already more skilled than Rupp is, IMO. Jessiman would look fine on our 4th line banging around, but he wouldn't develop at all. Rupp can do NOTHING out there with the puck. Jessiman at least has a lot of puck skills. Right now I'd actually say that Jessiman is better than Rupp. Just no need to bring him up now. I'd much rather let him develop his offense and use him as a "Rupp-like" guy as a last LAST resort.

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03-07-2007, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Jessiman is already more skilled than Rupp is, IMO. Jessiman would look fine on our 4th line banging around, but he wouldn't develop at all. Rupp can do NOTHING out there with the puck. Jessiman at least has a lot of puck skills. Right now I'd actually say that Jessiman is better than Rupp. Just no need to bring him up now. I'd much rather let him develop his offense and use him as a "Rupp-like" guy as a last LAST resort.
I agree. I guess my point is, Jessiman will be a NHL player. The question is what role will he fill?

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03-07-2007, 02:45 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
I agree. I guess my point is, Jessiman will be a NHL player. The question is what role will he fill?
I'm going to hit on 2 or so points with this. The first in regards to the previous poster who said that Jessiman doesn't have good hockey sense. I really disagree with that, because the guy doesn't do stupid stuff out there and he doesn't skate around cluelessly as some players do. He KNOWS what he needs to do out there and that's get to the net.

Secondly, I think that his skills are finally growing into his body, so to speak. He was so much bigger than anyone else when he was younger that he didn't have to do much to be able to dominate them. Now that the size/physicality has caught up to him, he's sort of lost that. I think that he's finally finding the skills that he's had all the time and finally developing them to work with his large frame.

It's a significant improvement, IMO.

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03-07-2007, 02:49 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
I'm going to hit on 2 or so points with this. The first in regards to the previous poster who said that Jessiman doesn't have good hockey sense. I really disagree with that, because the guy doesn't do stupid stuff out there and he doesn't skate around cluelessly as some players do. He KNOWS what he needs to do out there and that's get to the net.

Secondly, I think that his skills are finally growing into his body, so to speak. He was so much bigger than anyone else when he was younger that he didn't have to do much to be able to dominate them. Now that the size/physicality has caught up to him, he's sort of lost that. I think that he's finally finding the skills that he's had all the time and finally developing them to work with his large frame.

It's a significant improvement, IMO.

Post is dead on. I'm not a Rangers fan by any stretch but I've had the opportunity to watch Jessiman, and the difference is day/night to where he was a year ago to the last few games.

No idea what his potential ceiling is, but I'd find it almost unbelievable that the kid doesn't get a shot with the big club at some point mid-late next year or from the getgo the year after.

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03-07-2007, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
I'm going to hit on 2 or so points with this. The first in regards to the previous poster who said that Jessiman doesn't have good hockey sense. I really disagree with that, because the guy doesn't do stupid stuff out there and he doesn't skate around cluelessly as some players do. He KNOWS what he needs to do out there and that's get to the net.

Secondly, I think that his skills are finally growing into his body, so to speak. He was so much bigger than anyone else when he was younger that he didn't have to do much to be able to dominate them. Now that the size/physicality has caught up to him, he's sort of lost that. I think that he's finally finding the skills that he's had all the time and finally developing them to work with his large frame.

It's a significant improvement, IMO.
Jon, I hope you're right. I'm tired of the Parise argument. (I never wanted him.) Clearly Hugh still has a long ways to go, but, if what we've seen from him since he's returned to Hartford is what we can expect from him, and Jessiman finds his place in NY on the top two lines, then the Parise argument becomes pointless. I'd like to believe the Jessiman story is not even close to being written.

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03-07-2007, 02:55 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Jessiman would look fine on our 4th line banging around, but he wouldn't develop at all.
And this is why I've ultimately been dissatisfied with how he was developed in Hartford. Putting him on the lower lines didn't help him develop, and honestly, sending him to Charlotte probably didn't help a lot either.

He needs a high level of competition and good coaching, in addition to icetime, if he's ever going to amount to anything.

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03-07-2007, 02:59 PM
  #114
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And this is why I've ultimately been dissatisfied with how he was developed in Hartford. Putting him on the lower lines didn't help him develop, and honestly, sending him to Charlotte probably didn't help a lot either.

He needs a high level of competition and good coaching, in addition to icetime, if he's ever going to amount to anything.
The one disappointment about Dubi being called up is that I believe Schoenfeld had put together a line of Jessiman/Dubi/Bourret. It would be nice to see a line like that develop in Hartford and build some chemistry.

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03-07-2007, 03:05 PM
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well honestly...how likely is it that all three would make the Rangers and be put together as a line?

Not very, IMO. And when the Rangers need a player from the Pack, they shouldn't really be worrying how it might affect the chemistry on the Wolfpack.

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03-07-2007, 03:21 PM
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well honestly...how likely is it that all three would make the Rangers and be put together as a line?

Not very, IMO. And when the Rangers need a player from the Pack, they shouldn't really be worrying how it might affect the chemistry on the Wolfpack.
Actually, I think they have taken that into account, up until the Dubinsky promotion. They've allowed those kids basically a full year to build trust with one another, while developing their respective games. Some people believe that the reason Liffiton was brought up was because they feel there's no point in bringing up Baranka if he's not going to see the ice.

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03-07-2007, 03:23 PM
  #117
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Wow, how the tide has turned on Hugh Jessiman..From bust territory to NHL territory in 5 short games.....

Don't get me wrong, I like Jessiman...During his draft year, I screamed obnoxiouisly in every Ranger forum possible that he was the only kid they Rangers should consider (the same way I scremed for Radulov)..I just loved his combination of size, skill, and desire to be a Ranger.


Up until not to long ago, he could only be seen as a disappointment.However, the last 5 games or so in the AHL (and some play in the ECHL) has given us reason to hope that maybe he might turn itno the player some thought he would,...Bit it's a long road to go, ther ewill be lots opf peaks and valleys, and hell, he still might crash and burn..We just need to be patiuent with the kid like we have been with the rest of the Hartford kids this year.

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03-07-2007, 03:27 PM
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Actually, I think they have taken that into account, up until the Dubinsky promotion. They've allowed those kids basically a full year to build trust with one another, while developing their respective games. Some people believe that the reason Liffiton was brought up was because they feel there's no point in bringing up Baranka if he's not going to see the ice.
But at this point of the year, I don't think the future chemistry development issue or the worry of sitting a prospect is a concern like it was earleir in the year..The Rangers would be foolish to not call up the player that they thought could help them the most no matter what...I just think people on here tend to over-rank Baranka...Like Girardi before him, I just think the Rangers (or Renney) see Liffiton as a better fit for some of the team's needs if mara was out...

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03-07-2007, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Wow, how the tide has turned on Hugh Jessiman..From bust territory to NHL territory in 5 short games.....

Don't get me wrong, I like Jessiman...During his draft year, I screamed obnoxiouisly in every Ranger forum possible that he was the only kid they Rangers should consider (the same way I scremed for Radulov)..I just loved his combination of size, skill, and desire to be a Ranger.


Up until not to long ago, he could only be seen as a disappointment.However, the last 5 games or so in the AHL (and some play in the ECHL) has given us reason to hope that maybe he might turn itno the player some thought he would,...Bit it's a long road to go, ther ewill be lots opf peaks and valleys, and hell, he still might crash and burn..We just need to be patiuent with the kid like we have been with the rest of the Hartford kids this year.
I think the point, (and Renney referred to this with the "sexy" comment), is that when Jessiman uses his talent, the whole hockey package of that kind of player is very attractive. Someone that size, who can skate, handle the puck, score on a shot like he did the other night, and use that big body to either create space, cause chaos near the net, or shield the puck, becomes a big tease. Look at Hossa and Isbister for other such examples. The problem is getting these type of players to reach their development, AND understand what they have to do to be successful. And, that's probably been most of the battle with Jessiman.

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03-07-2007, 03:30 PM
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But at this point of the year, I don't think the future chemistry development issue or the worry of sitting a prospect is a concern like it was earleir in the year..The Rangers would be foolish to not call up the player that they thought could help them the most no matter what...I just think people on here tend to over-rank Baranka...Like Girardi before him, I just think the Rangers (or Renney) see Liffiton as a better fit for some of the team's needs if mara was out...

I can only go by what I saw on Saturday against the Phantoms, but, Baranka has what it takes to be in NY. He's has a lot more skill than Liffiton, moves the puck out of the defensive zone better, and can be devastating with his hitting.

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03-07-2007, 03:38 PM
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I can only go by what I saw on Saturday against the Phantoms, but, Baranka has what it takes to be in NY. He's has a lot more skill than Liffiton, moves the puck out of the defensive zone better, and can be devastating with his hitting.
Agree with your take on Jessiman...

As for Baranka, I have not seen his last few games but have heard he's playing solid...Persoanlly, I was surprised that Liffiton was recalled instead becaue I too thought Bartanka ws the better player, even if his past inconsistent play needs to be worked on..Still, I just can't see the Rangers not calling up the better player for their needs..And Renney (somewhere) handed out a pretty good comment about Liffiton's play..EH, who knows..

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03-07-2007, 03:52 PM
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I dont think Hugh lacks hockey sense. What he lacks is reps. Canadian players who come throught the Juniors play 80+ games a year. Hugh came up through Connecticut Prep schools where they play maybe 25 games a year. He played for Dartmouth in his Freshman year 45 games. The next year w/ the ankle inury Hugh only played in a handful of games. Last year he played 60 or 70 games at the ECHL and AHL level. What Hugh really needs is to stay in the AHL this year,(although on some level I do want him on the Big team) and get 1st line and Power Play minutes. Hopefully the Pack can go far in the Playoffs 3-4 rounds and Hugh plays an additional 20 games with 1st line minutes. I think next year he would need 40 games in the AHL @ 1st line minutes. Could be a force for the Rangers in 2nd half of 07-08. I just hope the coaching staff sticks with him even though he may slump at some points. I would not take minutes away from Hugh.
Before I comment on your post free, I just want to get everybody clear on one thing. I, that is me, that is Pizza, did not say that I believe Jessiman lacks hockey sense. What I said is that that is the knock on him. What ever a players level of hockey sense is, in my opinion it can be improved with a determined and very focused effort on any players part.

Now, as to what you zeroed in on re: "reps", I have to say that I am in agreement with you. I did some calculating at one point comparing how many games Nigel Dawes played before he reached HFD, and how many Hugh played, and the difference is.....well huge. Go look it up on hockeydb if you care to. There is also a dramatic separation in the level and quality each player faced en route to the AHL. No question Dawes played many more games at a significantly higher level of competition. That should be a big advantage as you lace up your skates for your first game in the AHL.

My point is and will remain that if Jessiman just keeps working on playing a more complete game, he will improve. Will he make it to the NHL at some point? Just too early to tell, since we do not know for sure yet if he can stay in the AHL. Time will tell. But time for the first time in a long time seems to be on Jessiman's side now.


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03-07-2007, 04:00 PM
  #123
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I think think they should strap him to a chair Clockwork Orange style and make him watch Petr Prucha videos til he passes out. If only there was a way to get Prucha's brain into Jessiman's body....
That's a good one!

I think Jessiman has a ton of desire to do well. If he does not make it, it will not be for lack of desire.

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03-07-2007, 04:16 PM
  #124
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Wow, how the tide has turned on Hugh Jessiman..From bust territory to NHL territory in 5 short games.....

Don't get me wrong, I like Jessiman...During his draft year, I screamed obnoxiouisly in every Ranger forum possible that he was the only kid they Rangers should consider (the same way I scremed for Radulov)..I just loved his combination of size, skill, and desire to be a Ranger.


Up until not to long ago, he could only be seen as a disappointment.However, the last 5 games or so in the AHL (and some play in the ECHL) has given us reason to hope that maybe he might turn itno the player some thought he would,...Bit it's a long road to go, ther ewill be lots opf peaks and valleys, and hell, he still might crash and burn..We just need to be patiuent with the kid like we have been with the rest of the Hartford kids this year.
Yeah to be honest with you I'm kind of laughing at all this myself. 5 good games and the kid will play in the NHL and the hockey sense issues that are painfully obvious have suddenly been solved just because he doesn't skate around in a circle in the neutral zone, etc.

Maybe Jessiman does indeed turn it around and optimism is never a bad thing, but within reason.

I think we tend to think that if a player has a short coming that it has to be GLARING. Like that if a guy isn't a good skater that he is crawling or that if a guy doesn't have hockey sense that he skates in a circle out there and the reality is that things are seldom that dramatic. It's one reason why even guys who do it for a living aren't more accurate.

I'll freely admit that I think Jessiman lacks hockey sense. You notice him because he's huge out there, but looking at what he's done, even in college, you see a guy who relies so heavily on simply being bigger than everyone else.

Rico Fata lacked hockey sense and he was a very good AHL scorer, so lacking hockey sense doesn't diminish that the guy still has some degree of talent and can do something.

If Hugh makes that is awesome, but we're getting a bit too carried away over 5 games.

It's funny because for years we heard that he only played 11 games his junior year and that hurt him and therefor doesn't count, but somehow 5 good AHL games has turned his career around.

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03-07-2007, 04:23 PM
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Yeah to be honest with you I'm kind of laughing at all this myself. 5 good games and the kid will play in the NHL and the hockey sense issues that are painfully obvious have suddenly been solved just because he doesn't skate around in a circle in the neutral zone, etc.

Maybe Jessiman does indeed turn it around and optimism is never a bad thing, but within reason.

I think we tend to think that if a player has a short coming that it has to be GLARING. Like that if a guy isn't a good skater that he is crawling or that if a guy doesn't have hockey sense that he skates in a circle out there and the reality is that things are seldom that dramatic. It's one reason why even guys who do it for a living aren't more accurate.

I'll freely admit that I think Jessiman lacks hockey sense. You notice him because he's huge out there, but looking at what he's done, even in college, you see a guy who relies so heavily on simply being bigger than everyone else.

Rico Fata lacked hockey sense and he was a very good AHL scorer, so lacking hockey sense doesn't diminish that the guy still has some degree of talent and can do something.

If Hugh makes that is awesome, but we're getting a bit too carried away over 5 games.

It's funny because for years we heard that he only played 11 games his junior year and that hurt him and therefor doesn't count, but somehow 5 good AHL games has turned his career around.
Could you be more specific when you say "hockey sense"? Thats kind of a blanket term that could be applied to alot of things. Does he not have scoring instincts? When you are that size, and your game is driving to the net and making a nuisance of yourself, how important is something like that?

It still baffles me that someone with his size, skills, skating and good work ethic could have it so hard.

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