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Jessiman looks like a different player.

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Old
03-07-2007, 04:09 PM
  #126
Edge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Could you be more specific when you say "hockey sense"? Thats kind of a blanket term that could be applied to alot of things. Does he not have scoring instincts? When you are that size, and your game is driving to the net and making a nuisance of yourself, how important is something like that?

It still baffles me that someone with his size, skills, skating and good work ethic could have it so hard.
It's the overall speed of the game. If he's with someone who actually creates offense he's big enough to go to the net and cause havoc.

The problem is a varied depending on the situation. There have been instances where he just doesn't see the ice well, which is well and good (afterall he isn't expected to be a playmaker) but you have to have some ability to move the puck. Other times you can tell he just doesn't quite know where the play is or he doesn't pick up his man. Sometimes he ends up getting bottled necked in a play, and with his size that can be a challange.

The problem is that when you look at the guys at the NHL you tend to see guys who really understand the game and do the little things. I just don't see that with Hugh, at least not on a level that would really make an big impact. I don't think it's out of line to think that maybe he can transition into a Jason Ward type but I just don't see enough of any one area to really be an impact player.

Not if Hugh were a second or third round pick that'd probably be okay, but everything comes back to context with Hugh.

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03-07-2007, 04:20 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
The problem is a varied depending on the situation. There have been instances where he just doesn't see the ice well, which is well and good (afterall he isn't expected to be a playmaker) but you have to have some ability to move the puck. Other times you can tell he just doesn't quite know where the play is or he doesn't pick up his man. Sometimes he ends up getting bottled necked in a play, and with his size that can be a challange.
And again, this is why I feel he needs a lot of icetime. Maybe he never gets it, but if he does, it will be because he played a lot and learned what he needed to.

And honestly, playing time the ECHL doesn't help him there. Slower paced, less talented, he's more likely to fall back on his size rather than learn the game...the guy needs real, quality playing time. The Pack coaches need to make sure he keeps getting that, and not pidgeonhole him the minute he goes 2-3 games without scoring.

I guess I'm saying (and other people are saying) that this seems to be the kind of stuff he can learn if he keeps playing. He hasn't played a lot of hockey compared to some other guys, for a variety of reasons, so he needs to play now. Again, maybe it doesn't help and he never gets it, but low icetime will make sure he never gets it

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03-07-2007, 06:39 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Could you be more specific when you say "hockey sense"? Thats kind of a blanket term that could be applied to alot of things. Does he not have scoring instincts? When you are that size, and your game is driving to the net and making a nuisance of yourself, how important is something like that?
The game of hockey is extremely fast. And there are so many options in hockey. A simple short pass can be executed so diffrently, you just can't make these small plays good enough. Exactly what 1/10 of a second to move the puck, exactly what inch of the stick of the player you are passing to should you hit ect. Then there are 4 players out with you, what player, what 1/10 of a second, and where should you pass the puck too?

A hockeyplayer basically never "thinks" on the ice, he just reacts, follows his instincts.

How a guy acts on the ice, where he passes the puck, which positions he goes into, when he makes a decision to finnish a check and on are just results of his instincts. You try to stay alert on the ice and keep your beat up, and then just follow your instincts. The second you start thinking on the ice you get in trouble. Thats why you see guys who are in a scoring drough look awful, or why it looks like a D is handling a handgrande without a safty when he got the puck after making a few big misstakes.

Thought the big question is, how do you develop thoose instincts? I think there is one easy answear, you practise at it. You push your brain. It often comes and goes in stretches, you need to watch, learn and think, then after a while it becomes a instinct. Its very easy, just like devloping reflexes and everything else.

Though the important aspect is to push the brain. If you watch a AHL game one night, and NHL game another night, the diffrence in executing plays become so obvious. It often looks so hard to solve easy situation in the AHL at times, and the AHL is a really good league. Thats because every pass takes a split second longer to send down there, it takes a split second longer to recive, a player must look up a split second longer before he knows what to do, in the end if you would clock how long it takes in the AHL before one pass is completed and the guy who got the puck knows what to do with it, it will probably have taken 1.5 seconds longer then in the NHL.

A player like Martin Straka have played in the Czech Rep. He have played a ton of international hockey which is a great challenge in terms of hockey sense. He have played a ton of hockey in the NHL. Everywere he have been he have been a guy who have been involved allot in the game, you don't develop a aspect that you aren't taking part of in the game, hence why there is no reason to play a kid at a level were he are in over his head. For Straka its "so easy" to figure out what needs to be done on a line, and execute that. He doesn't have to focus on reciving a pass, its all instincts, he can think 2-3 steps ahead instead.

Look at Brendan Shanahan, it looks so easy for him too. In all honesty he handles the puck pretty bad, but it never shows. He never have to do any fancy moves.

While Jessiman is a great physical example. His instincts just aren't as developed. For whatever reason, playing in Darthmouth or if his head just aren't learning it fast. He needs to keep it really simple if he is gooing to develop these aspects, and he needs time. It not that he is stupid and goes to place x on the ice when he should go to y. Or that he is stupid and passes the puck x in stead of y. In millions of small situations he performs slightly below then what you would want, while it maybe are comming allot easier for a kid like Ryan Callahan or even Dane Byers.

Now Jessiman seems to have picked up enough to stay with the flow so he can take advantage of his shot and size. He can develop allot in raw skills too, like protecting the puck, holding on to it ect. But he could also develop his hockeysense a ton.

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03-07-2007, 07:27 PM
  #129
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Jessiman has gone to the net, and attempted shots tonight against the Monarchs. He just Knocked-Out Jackman with a HUGE right handed.

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Old
03-07-2007, 07:33 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
And again, this is why I feel he needs a lot of icetime. Maybe he never gets it, but if he does, it will be because he played a lot and learned what he needed to.

And honestly, playing time the ECHL doesn't help him there. Slower paced, less talented, he's more likely to fall back on his size rather than learn the game...the guy needs real, quality playing time. The Pack coaches need to make sure he keeps getting that, and not pidgeonhole him the minute he goes 2-3 games without scoring.

I guess I'm saying (and other people are saying) that this seems to be the kind of stuff he can learn if he keeps playing. He hasn't played a lot of hockey compared to some other guys, for a variety of reasons, so he needs to play now. Again, maybe it doesn't help and he never gets it, but low icetime will make sure he never gets it
I agree and i don't. It's a double edged sword, he needs the icetime but at the same you can't give it to him over other young players either. At some point, like he's doing now, you have to step and TAKE that time. Unfortunatly for Hugh he's often been outperformed by his contemporaries in situations like that including guys like Korpikoski, Moore, Dawes, Dubinsky, etc. The Rangers have a lot of young players and one of the drawbacks of that is that there is only so much time to go around. And with due respect to Hugh, if he can't beat out a guy like Callahan than that's on him.

The problem with Hugh in the past has been that if he wasn't scoring, he was a bit of a liability out there and there were kids who, rightfully so, deserved to be out there. But in the end I don't think any of that hurts him. If he's going to make it, he's going to have to beat out other players, including other young players.

I don't think the ECHL was bad for him at all, he was simply overmatched at the begining of the year at the aHL level and it doesn't do anyone any good to throw him out there over other younger players who are ready.

We have to be careful that we don't get so desperate to turn Hugh into a player because of where he was drafted that he we start handing him things over prospects who outperform him but weren't taken at such a spotlight position. Especially with his recent play I think Hugh knows what he has to do to stay in the lineup and beat out his competition, the rest is really up to him.

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Old
03-08-2007, 06:45 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I agree and i don't. It's a double edged sword, he needs the icetime but at the same you can't give it to him over other young players either. At some point, like he's doing now, you have to step and TAKE that time. Unfortunatly for Hugh he's often been outperformed by his contemporaries in situations like that including guys like Korpikoski, Moore, Dawes, Dubinsky, etc. The Rangers have a lot of young players and one of the drawbacks of that is that there is only so much time to go around. And with due respect to Hugh, if he can't beat out a guy like Callahan than that's on him.

The problem with Hugh in the past has been that if he wasn't scoring, he was a bit of a liability out there and there were kids who, rightfully so, deserved to be out there. But in the end I don't think any of that hurts him. If he's going to make it, he's going to have to beat out other players, including other young players.

I don't think the ECHL was bad for him at all, he was simply overmatched at the begining of the year at the aHL level and it doesn't do anyone any good to throw him out there over other younger players who are ready.

We have to be careful that we don't get so desperate to turn Hugh into a player because of where he was drafted that he we start handing him things over prospects who outperform him but weren't taken at such a spotlight position. Especially with his recent play I think Hugh knows what he has to do to stay in the lineup and beat out his competition, the rest is really up to him.

Top draft picks always have and always will get more chances to shine than other players in every sport. Teams have alot invested in them and most top draft picks have the elite "skills" that enabled them to become the top picks they are. It's a matter of using those skills to produce at an elite level.

It's been said many times on these boards that Jessiman came out too early. He obviously had some set backs which reduced his playing time. Players need to play to enhace their skills. There's a balance you need to take in challanging a player but not overwhelming him so he loses confidence.

Hugh was obviously overmatched and lost confidence. He played few minutes because he wasn't able to earn them.

Pretty much the description of Hugh when he was drafted was that he'd be a project. He could be a bust but if he puts it together he'd be an elite unstoppable force. I don't get people getting upset because othe players in his draft class are NHL players. Hugh can still etch out a very good career.

No matter what happens the rest of the year he has shown improvement.

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Old
03-08-2007, 08:40 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
Top draft picks always have and always will get more chances to shine than other players in every sport. Teams have alot invested in them and most top draft picks have the elite "skills" that enabled them to become the top picks they are. It's a matter of using those skills to produce at an elite level.

It's been said many times on these boards that Jessiman came out too early. He obviously had some set backs which reduced his playing time. Players need to play to enhace their skills. There's a balance you need to take in challanging a player but not overwhelming him so he loses confidence.

Hugh was obviously overmatched and lost confidence. He played few minutes because he wasn't able to earn them.

Pretty much the description of Hugh when he was drafted was that he'd be a project. He could be a bust but if he puts it together he'd be an elite unstoppable force. I don't get people getting upset because othe players in his draft class are NHL players. Hugh can still etch out a very good career.

No matter what happens the rest of the year he has shown improvement.
Again agree and I disagree.

On the one hand top picks do get more ice-time, on the other hand the Rangers have young players who beat him out for it and the sad truth is that in those situations you still had to give them time to the other younger players.

I've personally never subscribed to the coming out too early belief. Hugh's sophmore and junior years in college were pretty stagnant, mainly because of WHERE he was playing. Another year at Dartmouth was not going to have the impact some believe. Now if we're talking Minnesote or Michigan or BC/BU than it probably would.

I think Hugh for better or worse needed to take the next step and I for one thought the ECHL was good for him. To me that was the right balance, the question was whether he could transfer that to the AHL which he couldn't for a long time. Right now he is, we'll see where it takes us.

As for his description, that was one I always disagreed with and was really why I wasn't crazy about the pick. I never saw Hugh as being an elite unstoppable force, he just doesn't have that king of skill. I never saw him as a potential Brendan Shanahan even if he put it all together and everything went right and the odds of him being a bust were far greater.

The problem people had with the pick (and I'm not looking to turn it into that debate, just trying to clarify because it ALWAYS gets twisted) was the potential vs. the odds and who else was out there. People were and still are angry because there were other power forwards, with greater upside, who were not THAT much smaller than Hugh who have also managed to actually put it together. Also that the Rangers were in the minority of people who saw the upside being THAT great.

The pick was less of the problem than the context.

Maybe Hugh makes a career for himself, but the context of which he was taken still does not give good odds of it being the move the Rangers could've made. That will always be the cloud that lingers, not necessarily who beat him to the NHL.

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03-08-2007, 10:00 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I've personally never subscribed to the coming out too early belief. Hugh's sophmore and junior years in college were pretty stagnant, mainly because of WHERE he was playing. Another year at Dartmouth was not going to have the impact some believe. Now if we're talking Minnesote or Michigan or BC/BU than it probably would.

I think Hugh for better or worse needed to take the next step and I for one thought the ECHL was good for him. To me that was the right balance, the question was whether he could transfer that to the AHL which he couldn't for a long time. Right now he is, we'll see where it takes us.
I thought he came out at the right time too. When you factor in the fact that he really had nowhere to go after sophomore year in terms of production and level of competition with a serious injury, I thought it was a no brainer for him to leave school, giving the Rangers the ability to have him under their thumb. I don't pretend to see alot of prospects, as I have only seen a few Wolfpack games and some world junior tourney games, I just got the impression from reading Jessiman and management quotes at the time, it was the right thing to do.

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03-08-2007, 10:27 PM
  #134
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Fighting, scoring, hitting! That's what I like to see. Keep the KO's coming

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Old
03-09-2007, 03:54 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
The game of hockey is extremely fast. And there are so many options in hockey. A simple short pass can be executed so diffrently, you just can't make these small plays good enough. Exactly what 1/10 of a second to move the puck, exactly what inch of the stick of the player you are passing to should you hit ect. Then there are 4 players out with you, what player, what 1/10 of a second, and where should you pass the puck too?

A hockeyplayer basically never "thinks" on the ice, he just reacts, follows his instincts.

How a guy acts on the ice, where he passes the puck, which positions he goes into, when he makes a decision to finnish a check and on are just results of his instincts. You try to stay alert on the ice and keep your beat up, and then just follow your instincts. The second you start thinking on the ice you get in trouble. Thats why you see guys who are in a scoring drough look awful, or why it looks like a D is handling a handgrande without a safty when he got the puck after making a few big misstakes.

Thought the big question is, how do you develop thoose instincts? I think there is one easy answear, you practise at it. You push your brain. It often comes and goes in stretches, you need to watch, learn and think, then after a while it becomes a instinct. Its very easy, just like devloping reflexes and everything else.

Though the important aspect is to push the brain. If you watch a AHL game one night, and NHL game another night, the diffrence in executing plays become so obvious. It often looks so hard to solve easy situation in the AHL at times, and the AHL is a really good league. Thats because every pass takes a split second longer to send down there, it takes a split second longer to recive, a player must look up a split second longer before he knows what to do, in the end if you would clock how long it takes in the AHL before one pass is completed and the guy who got the puck knows what to do with it, it will probably have taken 1.5 seconds longer then in the NHL.

A player like Martin Straka have played in the Czech Rep. He have played a ton of international hockey which is a great challenge in terms of hockey sense. He have played a ton of hockey in the NHL. Everywere he have been he have been a guy who have been involved allot in the game, you don't develop a aspect that you aren't taking part of in the game, hence why there is no reason to play a kid at a level were he are in over his head. For Straka its "so easy" to figure out what needs to be done on a line, and execute that. He doesn't have to focus on reciving a pass, its all instincts, he can think 2-3 steps ahead instead.

Look at Brendan Shanahan, it looks so easy for him too. In all honesty he handles the puck pretty bad, but it never shows. He never have to do any fancy moves.

While Jessiman is a great physical example. His instincts just aren't as developed. For whatever reason, playing in Darthmouth or if his head just aren't learning it fast. He needs to keep it really simple if he is gooing to develop these aspects, and he needs time. It not that he is stupid and goes to place x on the ice when he should go to y. Or that he is stupid and passes the puck x in stead of y. In millions of small situations he performs slightly below then what you would want, while it maybe are comming allot easier for a kid like Ryan Callahan or even Dane Byers.

Now Jessiman seems to have picked up enough to stay with the flow so he can take advantage of his shot and size. He can develop allot in raw skills too, like protecting the puck, holding on to it ect. But he could also develop his hockeysense a ton.
If a player has good natural instincts, Hockeysense can be developed faster with alot of icetime ie in football its called reps.

Because of his Draft position and his natural tools, the right thing to do is to give Hugh this ice time....EVEN IF HE IS STRUGGLING. Putting a player like Hugh on the fourth line or scratching him in the minors is like taking your retirement savings when you 22 and putting it in a money market. He needs minutes to develop. Even if there is a player who is playing better but has less upside. The Wolfpacks' first purpose is player development, not winning or losing. I would rather play a Jessiman type over a Ibister type who may produce more but is nothing more than a marginal NHL player.

Hugh needs icetime to develop the Hockeysense. It looks like he has the natural ability to have this Hockeysense but needs those reps to bring that Hockeysense to its full potential.

At this point, unless Hugh starts dogging it, he needs that icetime. Even if he slumps.

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03-19-2007, 09:30 AM
  #136
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is he still playing well and getting ice time?

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Old
03-19-2007, 09:06 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
Fighting, scoring, hitting! That's what I like to see.
You? Really?

Get out of town

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