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Old
05-02-2014, 12:47 PM
  #26
Do Make Say Think
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedinsquared View Post
I don't find it that funny, Neal's a good one dimensional player, who's numbers are inflated due to his linemates, similar to dupuis and Kunitz. Kesler makes pens 100000 times better
Kesler is a diving surrender monkey

He isn't worth more than Neal

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Old
05-02-2014, 12:53 PM
  #27
BC Ben
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This argument seems futile as Vancouver fans who watch a ton of games know exactly what Kesler brings to the table (in spite of this past year's stupidity) and how this deal makes so very little sense.

Kassian is also a long-term project that has just started to bear fruit. This kid has tons of potential and finally seems to understand how to use his body effectively. He has such soft hands, great vision and his hockey IQ continues to be honed. I wouldn't trade Kass at this point of his career even at the risk of regression and lower trade value.

On the flipside, I love Neal (though he makes some questionable on-ice decisions) and his ability to score. His stats may be inflated playing with great playmakers like Sid and Malkin, but those stats would likely stay the same playing with the twins.

I would pass on the deal, and at this time for the Canucks franchise, I doubt much happens without serious in-depth research. There isnt' a GM or coach in place... dayum, my team is currently unstable

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Old
05-02-2014, 03:43 PM
  #28
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Acquiring a guy with a history of suspensions is a bad idea for Vancouver. Our first-time offenders already get ridiculously long suspensions for careless stick swinging, jumping near Marian Hossa and hits that are under 1 second late. I couldn't even imagine how many games Neal would get if he kneed someone in the head while wearing a Canucks uniform.

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Old
05-02-2014, 03:57 PM
  #29
BoDacious Horvat
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The gap between Kesler and Neal is not Kassian. Also why would we want to be a team with one good line (Sedins + Neal) and just garbage 2nd-4th lines. Would rather trade Kesler for a couple of good, young pieces that fill needs.

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Old
05-02-2014, 04:21 PM
  #30
Vokouna Maattata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Not a Kassian level asset. Kesler and Hansen is more doable.
I actually think I'd do Kesler and Hansen for Neal. Go out and sign a Kulemin type winger for Malkin, and run with:

Kunitz-Crosby-Kesler
Bennett-Malkin-Kulemin
Dupuis-Sutter-Hansen

That's nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoDacious Horvat View Post
The gap between Kesler and Neal is not Kassian. Also why would we want to be a team with one good line (Sedins + Neal) and just garbage 2nd-4th lines. Would rather trade Kesler for a couple of good, young pieces that fill needs.
It's a lot harder to find a scorer like Neal for your top line than it is to find 2nd-4th line depth.

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Old
05-02-2014, 04:36 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Vokouna Maattata View Post
I actually think I'd do Kesler and Hansen for Neal. Go out and sign a Kulemin type winger for Malkin, and run with:

Kunitz-Crosby-Kesler
Bennett-Malkin-Kulemin
Dupuis-Sutter-Hansen

That's nice.



It's a lot harder to find a scorer like Neal for your top line than it is to find 2nd-4th line depth.
I understand that, but the problem is that our depth after the Sedins and Kesler is just atrocious. Plus it doesn't help that Daniel looks like a shell of his former self. That makes our team something like:

Sedin - Sedin - Neal
Higgins - Santorelli - Burrows
Booth - Matthias - Hansen
Sestito - Richardson - Dalpe

That makes me shudder.

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Old
05-02-2014, 04:45 PM
  #32
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That's a big "NO" from Vancouver. Kes and Kas have significantly more value to Van than Neal and a throw in.

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Old
05-02-2014, 04:54 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoDacious Horvat View Post
I understand that, but the problem is that our depth after the Sedins and Kesler is just atrocious. Plus it doesn't help that Daniel looks like a shell of his former self. That makes our team something like:

Sedin - Sedin - Neal
Higgins - Santorelli - Burrows
Booth - Matthias - Hansen
Sestito - Richardson - Dalpe

That makes me shudder.
I thought it was Neal for Kesler and Hansen, but the point still stands. That team would be solid with a good 2C like Statsny. Just IMO though.

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:40 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedinsquared View Post
Canucks wouldn't touch that deal, you guys are wayyyyyy overvaluing Neal, IMO kesler holds more value in a one for one
Haha. No...

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:42 PM
  #35
LiquidSnake
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Neal isn't worth Kesler

These trades are hilarious.

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:45 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Do Make Say Think View Post
Kesler is a diving surrender monkey

He isn't worth more than Neal
He's fit right In with Crosby and the Pens then.

And yes, he's worth more than Neal. By all means, keep your team together as it is. I look forward to them being called contenders every year and then folding.

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:45 PM
  #37
Vokouna Maattata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Neal isn't worth Kesler

These trades are hilarious.
How is Kesler worth more than Neal? Neal is younger, is signed for longer and had a better season this year by a pretty substantial margin. Neal is the more valuable player. The only thing that Kesler has on Neal is defensive play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
He's fit right In with Crosby and the Pens then.

And yes, he's worth more than Neal. By all means, keep your team together as it is. I look forward to them being called contenders every year and then folding.
You didn't even make the playoffs and were the 6th worst team in the league. You have no position to take shots.

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:49 PM
  #38
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Not really. Especially when you consider term, age and production.
Look at the teams they play for. Production becomes less of a factor when you consider circumstance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vokouna Maattata View Post
I never said Kassian was a throw in. Neal is more valuable, so Vancouver would need to add.
Kassian is not a piece you add.

It would be like us asking you to throw Bennett into Letang/Martin for Hamhuis + Schroeder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benedict Kovalchuk View Post
I think Kesler is about equal to Neal. Neal is younger, but Kesler is a much, much more well-rounded player. Pens fans are selling him short in this one.
It happens in every thread that involves Kesler, nothing new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Do Make Say Think View Post
Kesler is a diving surrender monkey

He isn't worth more than Neal
I don't think this is the place to bash Kesler's character considering James Neal is the other main piece in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoDacious Horvat View Post
I understand that, but the problem is that our depth after the Sedins and Kesler is just atrocious. Plus it doesn't help that Daniel looks like a shell of his former self. That makes our team something like:

Sedin - Sedin - Neal
Higgins - Santorelli - Burrows
Booth - Matthias - Hansen
Sestito - Richardson - Dalpe

That makes me shudder.
You might aswell just pencil in McDavid and/or Horvat down the middle, and it should look a bit better for 15-16.

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:50 PM
  #39
LiquidSnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vokouna Maattata View Post
How is Kesler worth more than Neal? Neal is younger, is signed for longer and had a better season this year by a pretty substantial margin. Neal is the more valuable player. The only thing that Kesker has on Neal is defensive play.
They both scored 40 once but are closer to 25 goal scorers. Kesler had a bad season but is better than he has shown. He also doesn't play with Malkin or Crosby and sets up his own chances. Is a better skater, obviously much better in his own end and exactly what most teams are lacking in these playoffs. A elite 2nd line C.

Kesler would be more beneficial to the Pens than Neal right now.

I'd never do that trade straight up. Neal is a complimentary 25 goal scorer.

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:50 PM
  #40
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Neal-
GP G A P +/-
Season 59 27 34 61 15
Post Season 6 1 0 1 -1
Career 413 161 154 315 17
Contract- 4 more years @ 5 million
Kesler-
GP G A P +/-
Season 77 25 18 43 -15
Career 655 182 211 393 25
2 more years @ 5 million

Neal is worth way more than Kesler...

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:51 PM
  #41
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Kesler is not on the table any more, Kesler, his agent, Gillis, and now Linden's direction all point to him staying. I'm happy to talk proposals, but Kesler for Neal solves nothing for us, and we don't want to move him.

Kassian is essentially "ungettable", even if Bennett is included. A cost controlled power forward isn't going any where. Any arguments Pens fans want to make about Neal being worth more then Kesler due to age, we make right back with Kassian. No, nope, non, nien.

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:51 PM
  #42
LiquidSnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vokouna Maattata View Post

You didn't even make the playoffs and were the 6th worst team in the league. You have no position to take shots.
I think it's fairly telling that you guys are currently in OT but you're in a proposals forum hoping to make this team better.

And yes. The Canucks suck. Doesn't mean we don't have good players

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:52 PM
  #43
LiquidSnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iFishyHD View Post
Neal-
GP G A P +/-
Season 59 27 34 61 15
Post Season 6 1 0 1 -1
Career 413 161 154 315 17
Contract- 4 more years @ 5 million
Kesler-
GP G A P +/-
Season 77 25 18 43 -15
Career 655 182 211 393 25
2 more years @ 5 million

Neal is worth way more than Kesler...
Keep telling yourself that. and keep Neal .

A 5mil 25 goal scoring winger...

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:52 PM
  #44
Vokouna Maattata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
They both scored 40 once but are closer to 25 goal scorers. Kesler had a bad season but is better than he has shown. He also doesn't play with Malkin or Crosby and sets up his own chances. Is a better skater, obviously much better in his own end and exactly what most teams are lacking in these playoffs. A elite 2nd line C.

Kesler would be more beneficial to the Pens than Neal right now.

I'd never do that trade straight up. Neal is a complimentary 25 goal scorer.
Okay, you just are crazily underating Neal then. Neal has been on a 37 goal pace since coming to the Penguins. Playing with Malkin just doesn't give him 12 empty net goals per season. Kesler had a bad year, Neal a good one. It doesn't matter what they did in years past, Neal is more valuable now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Keep telling yourself that. and keep Neal .

A 5mil 25 goal scoring winger...
How is Neal a 25 goal scorer? He has been a 40 goal scorer since the start of 11-12 season.

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:55 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Vokouna Maattata View Post
Okay, you just are crazily underating Neal then. Neal has been on a 37 goal pace since coming to the Penguins. Playing with Malkin just doesn't give him 12 empty net goals per season. Kesler had a bad year, Neal a good one. It doesn't matter what they did in years past, Neal is more valuable now.
Except that he can't seem to stay healthy then? Ok then what's the point then? If Kesler isn't worth much why would you guys want him?

There isn't anything (outside of the big 2 who are worth more) that I'd take from the pens for him.

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:56 PM
  #46
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Canucks pass. Prefer a youth package for Kesler, and Kassian isn't going anywhere.

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:57 PM
  #47
LiquidSnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vokouna Maattata View Post
Okay, you just are crazily underating Neal then. Neal has been on a 37 goal pace since coming to the Penguins. Playing with Malkin just doesn't give him 12 empty net goals per season. Kesler had a bad year, Neal a good one. It doesn't matter what they did in years past, Neal is more valuable now.



How is Neal a 25 goal scorer? He has been a 40 goal scorer since the start of 11-12 season.
In that case so has Kesler. You can just use pace all you want. Kessel is a 40 goal scorer based on oace yet has never attained it

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Old
05-02-2014, 08:58 PM
  #48
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Except that he can't seem to stay healthy then? Ok then what's the point then? If Kesler isn't worth much why would you guys want him?

There isn't anything (outside of the big 2 who are worth more) that I'd take from the pens for him.
He has played in 179 of a possible 212 games (like 85%). Staying healthy isn't a problem with him. Again, you're just way off base here. You're either severely underating Neal or severely overrating Kesler. I'm guessing both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
In that case so has Kesler. You can just use pace all you want. Kessel is a 40 goal scorer based on oace yet has never attained it
What are you even babbling on about here? Since the start of 11-12, Kesler has been on a 24 goal pace. Again, you're just rambling on at this point.

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Old
05-02-2014, 09:09 PM
  #49
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Kesler Edler Kassian 6th overall for. Malkin depth Dman throw in.

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Old
05-02-2014, 09:11 PM
  #50
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If you want a defensive versatile center thats ~29 years old why not go for Pavelski? Why Kesler?

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