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Old
05-02-2014, 09:02 AM
  #901
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
So you're backtracking on your regular season trashing, and now you've decided to focus on the playoffs? He led the team in scoring, was often their best forward defensively, and had a great faceoff percentage. Once again, what else was he supposed to do? He can't make the other 19 guys on the team become better players than the 20 on the other team.
For the most part, I stopped bashing him in Dec I believe

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05-02-2014, 09:21 AM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
If someone bashes Giroux after he's a Hart finalist and leads the team in both points and +/- in the playoffs, can't we just ban those people? Like an informal rule or something?
I second this motion

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05-02-2014, 09:31 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by The Rage Kage View Post
Because he had rangers covering him the whole time, and he still was the best +/- on the team and had the most points IIRC. Just because a PLAYMAKER/PASS FIRST kind of person did get hatricks every game doesn't mean he under performed, he played good defensively and the last few games really picked it up. People should look to other places than goals to judge someone's play.
I agree, we need to look at all the stats, and watch the games. He did play well defensivly and yes he is a playmaker who's "Robins" werent scoring but I also saw him pass when he had a clear shot at the net, miss open nets and at times had trouble handling the puck (I know most Flyers did but he is supose to be the best). I was disapointed with his offensive game. He is supose to make players better and in this series he did not. If you were not disappointed with his offensive play then fine you were not.

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05-02-2014, 10:01 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli View Post
I agree, we need to look at all the stats, and watch the games. He did play well defensivly and yes he is a playmaker who's "Robins" werent scoring but I also saw him pass when he had a clear shot at the net, miss open nets and at times had trouble handling the puck (I know most Flyers did but he is supose to be the best). I was disapointed with his offensive game. He is supose to make players better and in this series he did not. If you were not disappointed with his offensive play then fine you were not.
Sure, I wasn't happy with it, but really on the team the only one who stepped up to play was mason

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05-02-2014, 10:01 AM
  #905
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For some actual discussion, something that isn't really talked about but should be is that this team doesn't have any snipers or great goal scorers and Giroux, our best player by miles, is far more of a playmaker then shooter. That's a problem.

People get on Giroux and this team for not shooting enough but that's not really any of our forwards games. Giroux and Voracek are possession players and playmakers/passers. Hartnell and Simmonds are crease crashers/net presence. Lecavalier has a great shot he can tailor to the PP setup but that's it. Read and Couturier are two-way players and secondary scorers. Raffl can't finish for ****. Downie doesn't even seem NHL caliber anymore. Who the hell knows what Schenn is I guess. That's like our entire top nine.

People will spout off the seven 20 goal scorers thing but 20 goals doesn't describe a sniper or great goal scorer. We didn't even have one 30 goal guy this year technically and there's nobody on this roster you can look at and feel ultra confident of scoring even 30. The last one we had was probably Carter.

Just saying that if you have a bunch of passers and crease crashers out there, don't expect a lot of shots or goals outside of the crease or odd man situations.

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05-02-2014, 10:16 AM
  #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
For some actual discussion, something that isn't really talked about but should be is that this team doesn't have any snipers or great goal scorers and Giroux, our best player by miles, is far more of a playmaker then shooter. That's a problem.

People get on Giroux and this team for not shooting enough but that's not really any of our forwards games. Giroux and Voracek are possession players and playmakers/passers. Hartnell and Simmonds are crease crashers/net presence. Lecavalier has a great shot he can tailor to the PP setup but that's it. Read and Couturier are two-way players and secondary scorers. Raffl can't finish for ****. Downie doesn't even seem NHL caliber anymore. Who the hell knows what Schenn is I guess. That's like our entire top nine.

People will spout off the seven 20 goal scorers thing but 20 goals doesn't describe a sniper or great goal scorer. We didn't even have one 30 goal guy this year technically and there's nobody on this roster you can look at and feel ultra confident of scoring even 30. The last one we had was probably Carter.

Just saying that if you have a bunch of passers and crease crashers out there, don't expect a lot of shots or goals outside of the crease or odd man situations.
A 2011-2012 Michael Ryder is what this team could really use on Giroux's wing. It doesn't have to be someone really expensive, it just has to be someone that's going to snipe it more often than not when Giroux hits him right in the slot with a perfect pass.

Hartnell was kind of that two years ago, but it's pretty clear that it was his career year and it's not coming back. I agree that the number of 20 goal scorers is a misleading stat. This team doesn't have one guy that you can really depend on to score a big goal when they need it. Giroux does his best, but his game is really more geared towards setting that trigger man up.

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05-02-2014, 10:46 AM
  #907
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
A 2011-2012 Michael Ryder is what this team could really use on Giroux's wing. It doesn't have to be someone really expensive, it just has to be someone that's going to snipe it more often than not when Giroux hits him right in the slot with a perfect pass.

Hartnell was kind of that two years ago, but it's pretty clear that it was his career year and it's not coming back. I agree that the number of 20 goal scorers is a misleading stat. This team doesn't have one guy that you can really depend on to score a big goal when they need it. Giroux does his best, but his game is really more geared towards setting that trigger man up.
Resigning him was not a good move, but hind sight is 20/20

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05-02-2014, 10:48 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli View Post
For the most part, I stopped bashing him in Dec I believe
"Im not sure its so much trashing the team as it is being objective. There are bandwagon fans in every city but a bandwagon fan and an objective fan are two different types of fans. Many people on this board like to lump anyone who points out a wart as a bandwagon fan, and that is just not true. I like G but I think he is a bit over rated (best player in the world). Despite the numbers (playoff numbers would look a lot different if his numbers from the Pittsburgh series were deleted) he has come up small over the last 3 games. If fact, his point production is down over the last two weeks or so (crunch time). I admit, he is playing better defensively now then he was in the beginning of the year but saying he wants it so much as a defense of his small showing is laughable. I want us to win so much, does that make me the best player? If you are not disappointed by Gs disappearing act when this team needs him the most then I question whether you are a G fan 1st or a Flyers fan 1st"

That was in April Bro...Then you focus on a 3 game/2 week time period to make your assessment. Very objective

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05-02-2014, 11:01 AM
  #909
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This is a discussion about Giroux's play, not who on here bashed him months ago. Stop flaming each other

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05-02-2014, 11:13 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli View Post
I agree he had a wonderful year. He deserves to be a finalist. His playoff performance was disappointing…
His playoff performance was exactly what you'd expect if you actually look at the situation he was in. The guy is getting nearly molested by Rangers players every time he touches the ice, which is magnified since Giroux is a small guy to begin with. They're hitting him in the offensive zone, defensive zone, behind the play, and after the whistle... it adds up. Then look at his line, Voracek played great, but that line didn't have a LW all series. Beyond that, they didn't have a bit of secondary scoring to help them out or even draw the slightest bit of defensive attention off of Giroux. The Rangers knew that he was the only real threat at even strength and they put all of their focus on him, which would obviously slow down production even if it wasn't against a good defensive team with an elite goaltender.


Last edited by BlameUtley: 05-02-2014 at 12:04 PM. Reason: off topic
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Old
05-02-2014, 11:54 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
His playoff performance was exactly what you'd expect if you actually look at the situation he was in. The guy is getting nearly molested by Rangers players every time he touches the ice, which is magnified since Giroux is a small guy to begin with. They're hitting him in the offensive zone, defensive zone, behind the play, and after the whistle... it adds up. Then look at his line, Voracek played great, but that line didn't have a LW all series. Beyond that, they didn't have a bit of secondary scoring to help them out or even draw the slightest bit of defensive attention off of Giroux. The Rangers knew that he was the only real threat at even strength and they put all of their focus on him, which would obviously slow down production even if it wasn't against a good defensive team with an elite goaltender.
I agreed but I also saw him pass when he had a clear shot at the net, miss open nets and have a lot of trouble handling the puck.

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05-02-2014, 12:00 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Striiker View Post


Every player makes mistakes, if that's enough for him to not be a great playoff performer than there isn't a single good player in the league.
He should win playoff MVP

(and yes this post does lack intelligence) you have worn me out!!!

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05-02-2014, 12:07 PM
  #913
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This discussion is about Giroux, not about posters intelligence or who was right or wrong months ago.

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05-02-2014, 03:58 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Justified View Post
This discussion is about Giroux, not about posters intelligence or who was right or wrong months ago.
Not gonna stop them. Myself am not dissapointed with girouxs play. For his situation he did well. And he did gaurentee us game 4

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05-02-2014, 08:44 PM
  #915
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So far Crosby is looking far worse against New York than Giroux did, and Crosby even has Malkin to sap defensive attention.

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05-02-2014, 08:58 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
So far Crosby is looking far worse against New York than Giroux did, and Crosby even has Malkin to sap defensive attention.
Buncha Robins in this league.

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05-03-2014, 04:07 AM
  #917
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So far Giroux in the 2010's:

1st in Points, 5th in PPG.

Comparables from other decades in terms of scoring relative to peers (over 300 GP for other decades, over 200 for 40's and 30's and over 150 for 20's (just due to lack of games, length of careers in the early NHL):

2000's: Joe Thornton, 5th in PPG.
1990's: Pat Lafontaine, 5th in PPG.
1980's: Jari Kurri, 5th in PPG.
1970's: Marcel Dionne, 5th in PPG.
1960's: Jean Beliveau, 5th in PPG.
1950's: Andy Bathgate, 5th in PPG.
1940's: Toe Blake, 5th in PPG.
1930's: Howie Morenz, 5th in PPG.
1920's: Bill Cook, 5th in PPG.

All HOFers...

Ofc he has to keep his pace up relative to his peers, for another 6 seasons, which will be very hard (but not impossible, he will be 32 at the end of the 2019-20 season... for an assist happy centre still likely an elite player) as there are some very talented younger players coming up in the league... but shows just how impressive his scoring feats have been for the last 300 games.

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05-03-2014, 04:23 AM
  #918
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
So far Crosby is looking far worse against New York than Giroux did, and Crosby even has Malkin to sap defensive attention.
For the playoffs: 7GP, 0G, 6A, -5. Yikes. -3 last night

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05-03-2014, 09:50 PM
  #919
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When I turn on 97.5 the fanatic and hear hosts spouting off that Giroux underperformed and that he's not a true star, needs to be the #2 player, etc. and then see that some people on this website agree, I wonder if this city truly deserves the greatness that is Giroux.

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05-04-2014, 01:16 AM
  #920
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
When I turn on 97.5 the fanatic and hear hosts spouting off that Giroux underperformed and that he's not a true star, needs to be the #2 player, etc. and then see that some people on this website agree, I wonder if this city truly deserves the greatness that is Giroux.
For Giroux to be the number 2 player they would need to build a time machine and acquire Lindros or Jagr in their prime.

Hell, if you've gone that far, might as well grab Lemieux and Gretzky to boot. Then Giroux can be the best 4th line center in NHL history.

Edit: LOL at the dominance that imaginary team would be.

Gretzky-Lemieux
Lindros-Jagr
Giroux

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05-04-2014, 07:24 AM
  #921
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Current NHLers who have twice or more been top 5 in Hart voting:

Jagr: 7x (94-95, 95-96, 97-98, 98-99, 99-00, 00-01, 05-06)
Brodeur: 7x (96-97, 97-98, 00-01, 02-03, 03-04, 06-07, 07-08)
Crosby: 4x (06-07, 09-10, 12-13, 13-14)
Ovechkin: 4x (07-08, 08-09, 09-10, 12-13)
Thornton: 3x (02-03, 05-06, 06-07)
Selanne: 3x (96-97, 97-98, 98-99)
Malkin: 3x (07-08, 08-09, 11-12)
Iginla: 2x (03-04, 07-08)
Giroux: 2x (11-12, 13-14)
St. Louis: 2x (03-04, 10-11)

So 10 current NHLers.

4 under age 30.

Of the 10 Giroux is the youngest.

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05-04-2014, 09:20 AM
  #922
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This is at the bottom of the page here:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...Flyers_GM.html



Quote:
Team Canada wanted Claude Giroux to play in the world championships, but the Flyers would not give him permission. "He still has [health] issues," said Holmgren, who would not elaborate.

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05-04-2014, 02:03 PM
  #923
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I bet his back hurts from that huge, unpenalized cross checfk McDonaugh gave him.

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05-04-2014, 02:27 PM
  #924
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I bet his back hurts from that huge, unpenalized cross checfk McDonaugh gave him.
Or from having the entire team on his back all year...

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05-04-2014, 05:02 PM
  #925
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This is at the bottom of the page here:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...Flyers_GM.html
I have no problem with this at all, Roo battled through all sorts of garbage this year to be 3rd in scoring and a finalist for the Hart trophy, guy is a stud, numbers don't lie either and it's sad people think he's underachieving, but there's no cure for stupid, when and if they get a sniper/finisher to play on G's wing the same people will be singing a different tune when he keeps throwing up goudy numbers in points

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