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Ehrhoff (50% retained)

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Old
05-03-2014, 08:12 PM
  #126
Djp
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Parenteau, Pickard, our 2015 first and 2016 2nd, make as much sense for the sabres as I think it would?
Buffalo would get better offers.

Ehrhoff at 50% will get alot of decent offers. Buffalo does not have to move him. Buffalo doesn't need fluff. Their target would be a top 6 winger prospect/young player who is 25 or younger.

Colorado doesn't mesh with buffalos needs unless you want to trade ROR.

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05-03-2014, 09:07 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by David71 View Post
toffoli+a prospect+2nd and 3rd round to buffalo for erhoff 50% retained
No! You are not getting Toffoli at all. The most you could get would be Vey+

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05-03-2014, 09:19 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by KingsOfCali25 View Post
No! You are not getting Toffoli at all. The most you could get would be Vey+
I agree that Toffoli is a pipe dream but the most we could get is vey plus?
That seems rather far fetched

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Old
05-03-2014, 09:23 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Erhoff is one of a couple vets I'd love for the avs to target, although we're pretty limited to some combination of Pickard/Aittokallio, Parenteau, picks, and possibly Elliott or McGinn. Given PAP still has two years left on his deal at a nice price for a skilled forward and so could fill a top 6 spot in the interim, while also holding value for the sabres to sell off later, you're deep on the right side of D and with secondary forwards, would something like Parenteau, Pickard, our 2015 first and 2016 2nd, make as much sense for the sabres as I think it would?
The sabres would have no use for Parenteau. Pickard is nice but we have a glut of young goalies who are playing excellently at various levels (Ullmark,Makarov,Lieuwen and Peterson) aswell as two young goalies in Neuvirth and Enroth who could be starters in this league. G is an easier position to fill.

The picks are meh as the 1st would be mid to late and the 2nd would be magic beans.

No dice.

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05-03-2014, 09:51 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Nope. The only thing there that's the kind of piece Buffalo would be targeting is the 2015 1st. Everything else is fluff. At a base minimum, I'd need a really solid top 6 F prospect+ coming back to move Ehrhoff.
Yeah we don't have that kind of prospect which is why I was thinking the first with a good goalie prospect and a guy who can be flipped for more picks once enough kids push him out of the lineup could make sense since I think what the Sabres are really lacking are the real top end forwards to move forward with, supporting guys and dmen are loaded in your pipeline, so loading up on picks/high upside young guys and players who can hold the fort and be swapped for more picks is what you should be looking to get when moving the older pieces.

Admittedly I say this as a secondary sabres fan who likes them cause I've spent a lot of time in that town, but isn't a fan like I am of the avs and so am not as knowledgeable and it's more of an outside opinion. Granted I don't think you should trade Erhoff until the young players for you to, and even then I may look into using some of the young defensive depth to upgrade up front if it's needed at that time. But if you were to move Erhoff getting a lot of assets to use to load up on high end forward prospects in next year's stacked draft would make a lot of sense if you can't find the right, high upside young forward..

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Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
The sabres would have no use for Parenteau. Pickard is nice but we have a glut of young goalies who are playing excellently at various levels (Ullmark,Makarov,Lieuwen and Peterson) aswell as two young goalies in Neuvirth and Enroth who could be starters in this league. G is an easier position to fill.

The picks are meh as the 1st would be mid to late and the 2nd would be magic beans.

No dice.
Not even as a skilled stop gap that you could move for another first at one of the next two deadlines?

I admittedly watched the Sabres less than I have in previous years because you brought in the Sacco and we got rid of the sacco, but I actually think he'd fit in as a player to keep his value up while buying more time for the kids and still being a trade asset later. Kinda like Moulson in the Vanek trade or Stewi in the Miller/Ott trade.

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05-03-2014, 10:04 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post

Not even as a skilled stop gap that you could move for another first at one of the next two deadlines?

I admittedly watched the Sabres less than I have in previous years because you brought in the Sacco and we got rid of the sacco, but I actually think he'd fit in as a player to keep his value up while buying more time for the kids and still being a trade asset later. Kinda like Moulson in the Vanek trade or Stewi in the Miller/Ott trade.
Why though? If Ehrhoff is available, especially with salary retained, plenty of teams are going to be kicking the tires. The Sabres could easily cut out the middle man and reduce the risk (ie: that we can't just flip Parenteau for pieces we actually want) by just trading him to a team that has and will part with the pieces we want/need.

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05-03-2014, 10:41 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Why though? If Ehrhoff is available, especially with salary retained, plenty of teams are going to be kicking the tires. The Sabres could easily cut out the middle man and reduce the risk (ie: that we can't just flip Parenteau for pieces we actually want) by just trading him to a team that has and will part with the pieces we want/need.
Yup and i'd be real skeptical about Parenteau returning a 1st if the sabres attempted to move him. He'll be going to a team with considerably less offensive talent which will almost assuredly hurt his production. Moulson didn't return a 1st in a weaker draft I don't see Parenteau returning a 1st in a much better draft.

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05-03-2014, 10:51 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Why though? If Ehrhoff is available, especially with salary retained, plenty of teams are going to be kicking the tires. The Sabres could easily cut out the middle man and reduce the risk (ie: that we can't just flip Parenteau for pieces we actually want) by just trading him to a team that has and will part with the pieces we want/need.
I'm not sure the Sabres will get the young forward they need for erhoff so using him to accumulate even more assets with which to pursue the kind of star power you're lacking and snagging up guys to hold the fort and allow you to not rush your kids, is probably the best bet if the team did decide to move him, which I again don't think they should do as he's a perfect guy to help bring the kids in around on D, like Gio is doing for Calgary.

Now I do agree that some other team could probably put together a better collection of assets for you to play with, but PA also helps keep you from having to rush the kids, or ice them with no support as he'd done well with very different young offensive players in colorado and on the island. And so can be useful for your development as well as an asset. Ultimately circles back to why I don't think Erhoff should be traded though, don't think you get too much more value than PAP, goalie prospect, first and second would be, since yet another nonbluechip forward prospect isn't exactly a need for you either, while not doing much for your current prospects, and I just don't see anyone dangling the kind of quality young top 6er you need.

Thus I return to the plan of targeting picks that can be used to move up in the draft next year and grab as many of the high ceiling forwards that'll be available as you can, while filling the team with guys who can make life easier on the prospects that are ready to make it in, and can be dealt down the line to keep the pipeline of picks and prospects loaded while keeping your ears open for the next Seguin for multiple pieces type trade with which to consolidate some of your assets into the top end quality you lack.

Just generally a trade htat helps you have many different kidns of pieces with which to make the kind of big trades that could help alongside next year's tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
Yup and i'd be real skeptical about Parenteau returning a 1st if the sabres attempted to move him. He'll be going to a team with considerably less offensive talent which will almost assuredly hurt his production. Moulson didn't return a 1st in a weaker draft I don't see Parenteau returning a 1st in a much better draft.
I think that the cap situation this year and wealth of targets at the TDL pushed prices down, and if you were trading him next year would have almost certainly returned a late first, especially without a massive piece like Vanek holding everything up, but I may well be wrong on that.


Last edited by cgf: 05-04-2014 at 12:55 AM.
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Old
05-04-2014, 12:08 AM
  #134
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I agree that Toffoli is a pipe dream but the most we could get is vey plus?
That seems rather far fetched
Ehrhoff at 50% is great and the kings could use a d-man like him but not for a Toffoli/Pearson. If you look at the kings best 3 prospects Toffoli/Pearson/Vey. Vey would be the only one of the three the kings would deal at this point for an Ehrhoff type. You would find a better offer from another team.

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Old
05-04-2014, 01:12 AM
  #135
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No interest moving Ehrhoff unless it's in a deal for a 2015 1st + good prospect (as in a teams 3rd or 4th best prospect)

Or for a top 10 2014 1st but I doubt any bottom 10 teams from this year are trying to contend for next season. Except Vancouver possibly considering the Sedins are turning 34 and Kesler 30 and their window is closing fast but 6 is a little too much for Ehrhoff. Maybe Ehrhoff + 31 + 39 for #6.

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05-04-2014, 01:13 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
No interest moving Ehrhoff unless it's in a deal for a 2015 1st + good prospect (as in a teams 3rd or 4th best prospect)

Or for a top 10 2014 1st but I doubt any bottom 10 teams from this year are trying to contend for next season. Except Vancouver possibly considering the Sedins are turning 34 and Kesler 30 and their window is closing fast but 6 is a little too much for Ehrhoff. Maybe Ehrhoff + 31 + 39 for #6.
Or Anaheim, I'd trade with Washington and possibly even Winnipeg with Ehrhoff involved

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05-04-2014, 02:38 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
I'm not sure the Sabres will get the young forward they need for erhoff so using him to accumulate even more assets with which to pursue the kind of star power you're lacking and snagging up guys to hold the fort and allow you to not rush your kids, is probably the best bet if the team did decide to move him, which I again don't think they should do as he's a perfect guy to help bring the kids in around on D, like Gio is doing for Calgary.
I'm pretty sure that a team like Anaheim is willing to part with one of their young forwards.

Quote:
Now I do agree that some other team could probably put together a better collection of assets for you to play with, but PA also helps keep you from having to rush the kids, or ice them with no support as he'd done well with very different young offensive players in colorado and on the island. And so can be useful for your development as well as an asset. Ultimately circles back to why I don't think Erhoff should be traded though, don't think you get too much more value than PAP, goalie prospect, first and second would be, since yet another nonbluechip forward prospect isn't exactly a need for you either, while not doing much for your current prospects, and I just don't see anyone dangling the kind of quality young top 6er you need.
We already have Stafford and Stewart to fill right wing vet spots.

You really don't think that one of the best possession d-man in the league playng in a worst possession team with 2 mill. cap hit and less actual salary and absolutely no risk for the obtaining team added with multi-year contract don't have more value? Ehrhoff is able to play a top-2 role, though being most ideal playing in a second pairing (and would be one of the best second pairing d-men in the league).


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Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
Or Anaheim, I'd trade with Washington and possibly even Winnipeg with Ehrhoff involved
Like I posted to the Sabres section that I would contact Anaheim and ask Theodore (they would just draft Haydn Fleury with Ottawa's pick to replace him) and one of their winger prospect (Etem, Silfverberg, Rakell, Kerdiles etc). I think that's a pretty fair value (and if needed, we could add a pick)

And that package alone would be a lot better and more suitable for us than the one including PAP.


Last edited by Heraldic: 05-04-2014 at 05:02 AM.
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Old
05-05-2014, 03:06 AM
  #138
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Yeah we don't have that kind of prospect which is why I was thinking the first with a good goalie prospect and a guy who can be flipped for more picks once enough kids push him out of the lineup could make sense since I think what the Sabres are really lacking are the real top end forwards to move forward with, supporting guys and dmen are loaded in your pipeline, so loading up on picks/high upside young guys and players who can hold the fort and be swapped for more picks is what you should be looking to get when moving the older pieces.

Admittedly I say this as a secondary sabres fan who likes them cause I've spent a lot of time in that town, but isn't a fan like I am of the avs and so am not as knowledgeable and it's more of an outside opinion. Granted I don't think you should trade Erhoff until the young players for you to, and even then I may look into using some of the young defensive depth to upgrade up front if it's needed at that time. But if you were to move Erhoff getting a lot of assets to use to load up on high end forward prospects in next year's stacked draft would make a lot of sense if you can't find the right, high upside young forward..



Not even as a skilled stop gap that you could move for another first at one of the next two deadlines?

I admittedly watched the Sabres less than I have in previous years because you brought in the Sacco and we got rid of the sacco, but I actually think he'd fit in as a player to keep his value up while buying more time for the kids and still being a trade asset later. Kinda like Moulson in the Vanek trade or Stewi in the Miller/Ott trade.
Based on how little scoring wingers went for at the deadline last year I don't see the logic in taking a guy like Parenteau. And considering we'd be retaining 50% salary on Ehrhoff, you'd be getting your top pairing Dman and gaining cap space.

I think if we're offering up Ehrhoff at $2 million a season in addition to taking whatever $3-5 million cap dump a contender would want to get rid of there's no reason Buffalo shouldn't be asking for a better prospect to go with a 1st. We're at the point of rebuilding where quantity of average or slightly above average prospects doesn't do much for us. He's also a guy we don't have to move right away like we did with Miller and Vanek, we don't have to take a guy PA back to get max value.

I also still think people are underrating Ehrhoff a lot. He's averaged 24 minutes a game over the last four seasons. He'd be getting offers of $5+ million a year on the open market and we can offer him up for $2 million plus take a cap dump back. Can anyone name any trade that has ever happened where one team both picked up both a top pairing dman, and gained $3-5 million cap space?

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