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Canucks move up in draft

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Old
05-03-2014, 08:18 PM
  #26
CodeE
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Originally Posted by iFan View Post
2015 is a deep and great draft Canucks would be dumb to trade a 2nd in that draft to move up one spot when there's not much of a difference with the top 5 guys and Ehlers and Nylander and a strong case can be made for for Ritchie, there's not a lot of difference between all these guys. Trading a 2nd in next years draft would be like a middle 1st in this draft and yeah that's way too much to move one spot. Canucks need all their picks in next years draft and their 1st and 2nd rounders in this draft we need to build up our cupboard. The whole point to moving up would be to land Reinhart or Bennett which won't be there at 5th so I don't see why we'd be looking at that pick when we should be in talks with Panthers, Sabres or Oilers to land one of those guys and sure there'd be a price to move up to those spots that may be worth it but to give up a 2015 2nd to move up one spot is laughable...
The price is what it would cost, as evidenced by other draft day trades where a team parted ways with a 2nd round pick to move up. The cost to move up gets higher as you reach the top.

In 2008, Toronto traded the 7th overall, the 68th overall that year, and next year's 2nd to move up two spots. Since then, no team has traded up within the top 10.

What makes me is you believing that other teams will gladly help out Vancouver at a reduced rate, and ignoring history which has shown the going rate to move up in a draft.

You don't want to move up? That's fine, but in a thread entitled "Speculation: Canucks move up in draft", you're looking for what exactly? A team to tell you they'd happily move down for a 5th round pick? Maybe we'll just switch picks so you can owe Garth Snow a favor? Maybe you have a bad contract to dump on our team?

That's the price. If you don't like it, you don't move up in the draft. Simple as that.

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05-03-2014, 08:22 PM
  #27
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6th Overall + Hansen + 3rd 2015 for 3rd Overall (Oilers)

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05-03-2014, 08:26 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
The price is what it would cost, as evidenced by other draft day trades where a team parted ways with a 2nd round pick to move up. The cost to move up gets higher as you reach the top.

In 2008, Toronto traded the 7th overall, the 68th overall that year, and next year's 2nd to move up two spots. Since then, no team has traded up within the top 10.

What makes me is you believing that other teams will gladly help out Vancouver at a reduced rate, and ignoring history which has shown the going rate to move up in a draft.

You don't want to move up? That's fine, but in a thread entitled "Speculation: Canucks move up in draft", you're looking for what exactly? A team to tell you they'd happily move down for a 5th round pick? Maybe we'll just switch picks so you can owe Garth Snow a favor?

That's the price. If you don't like it, you don't move up in the draft. Simple as that.
I don't think you understand.... Canucks aren't looking to move up 1 spot, we'd be after Reinhart so why are we trying to make a deal for the 5th?.... Just draft Ehlers at 6th. Canucks aren't looking to trade up just to trade up, we'd be after a certain player. This draft doesn't have that real high end talent like 08.. The difference between the player at 6th and the player at 5th will be nil. I don't give a crap about the 5th, you're the one all in a panic to trade us your pick lol we don't want the 5th keep it and we'll draft Ehlers and keep a very good 2nd round pick in 2015, no interest in giving up assets unless it's for Reinhart, if we can't land him then Ehlers, Ritchie or Nylanders will be awesome.

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05-03-2014, 08:40 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by iFan View Post
I don't think you understand.... Canucks aren't looking to move up 1 spot, we'd be after Reinhart so why are we trying to make a deal for the 5th?.... Just draft Ehlers at 6th. Canucks aren't looking to trade up just to trade up, we'd be after a certain player. This draft doesn't have that real high end talent like 08.. The difference between the player at 6th and the player at 5th will be nil. I don't give a crap about the 5th, you're the one all in a panic to trade us your pick lol we don't want the 5th keep it and we'll draft Ehlers and keep a very good 2nd round pick in 2015, no interest in giving up assets unless it's for Reinhart, if we can't land him then Ehlers, Ritchie or Nylanders will be awesome.
You're free to post your opinions on the internet, but at the end of the day, they're just that, opinions. This is just a lot of you passing off your opinion as absolute fact.

"Canucks aren't looking to move up 1 spot"... opinion.
"We'd be after Reinhart"... opinion.
"No interest in giving up assets unless it's for Reinhart"... opinion.

Now compare to...

"The going rate to move up in the first round is a 2nd round pick"... fact.

I'm in no "panic" to trade the Canucks our pick. I'm simply telling ya'll the price it would likely take. Feel free to have your opinions and share them with the world, but understand that opinions cannot disprove facts.

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05-03-2014, 08:43 PM
  #30
Sergei Shirokov
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I like our spot, I'm happy with either someone falling or just taking Ehlers.

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05-03-2014, 09:34 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Canadian Canuck View Post
6th Overall + Hansen + 3rd 2015 for 3rd Overall (Oilers)
I wouldn't do it for Edmonton. I don't think the price is off because only teams willing to move spots are going to move so that payment is probably fine.

I just don't think it makes sense for Edmonton to move. They need one of the Sam's a heck of a lot more than they need Fleury or whoever they would drop down to select.

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05-03-2014, 09:35 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
You're free to post your opinions on the internet, but at the end of the day, they're just that, opinions. This is just a lot of you passing off your opinion as absolute fact.

"Canucks aren't looking to move up 1 spot"... opinion.
"We'd be after Reinhart"... opinion.
"No interest in giving up assets unless it's for Reinhart"... opinion.

Now compare to...

"The going rate to move up in the first round is a 2nd round pick"... fact.

I'm in no "panic" to trade the Canucks our pick. I'm simply telling ya'll the price it would likely take. Feel free to have your opinions and share them with the world, but understand that opinions cannot disprove facts.
There's no fact that the cost to move up one spot in this draft is a 2015 2nd... There's also no fact the Canucks are looking to move all the way up to the 5th spot lol I like where we're drafting... If Ehlers or Nylander or Ritchie or more than one of them get taken in the top 5 then we land the guy who drops... I don't get why Canucks should be giving away a great pick in the 2015 draft to move up one spot when the talent level isn't dropping from 5th to 6th, people talk about this being a top 5 but it's more on the lines of a top 7 maybe top 8 depending how you feel about Ritchie.

Keep your pick and we'll happily talk to Panthers, Sabres and Oilers about possibly moving up.. If no deal can be made that makes sense taking Ehlers at 6th isn't a bad thing. Honestly I wouldn't be too willing to give up much to move up into the top 3 cause Reinhart and Bennett aren't really better than Ehlers or Nylander, this draft a lot of these guys are close in talent and projection so there's no point in overpaying to move up in this draft. If we were picking outside of the top 8 then you'd have a case as the talent level starts to drop.

Again I don't get why you're trying so hard to convince us we need or want to move up one spot? Is it because you might want Ehlers and instead of taking him at 5th to cash in on trading down? Lol it's ok you can take him at 5th and we'll catch the dropper or we can have Ehlers either way it works out for the Canucks and we keep a very good draft pick in the 2015 draft and land a top prospect in this draft


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Old
05-03-2014, 09:37 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by haterbehatin View Post
I wouldn't do it for Edmonton. I don't think the price is off because only teams willing to move spots are going to move so that payment is probably fine.

I just don't think it makes sense for Edmonton to move. They need one of the Sam's a heck of a lot more than they need Fleury or whoever they would drop down to select.
Oilers need LD more than the Sams... Oilers need to get some size in that top 6, they got that high end skill and fast skaters they need a big center with a strong defensive play, Oilers should have their eyes on Ekblad or LD, I thought I read that Bennett is projected more as a winger in the NHL, if that's the case I don't see the Oilers needing him.

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05-03-2014, 09:43 PM
  #34
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Oilers need LD more than the Sams... Oilers need to get some size in that top 6, they got that high end skill and fast skaters they need a big center with a strong defensive play, Oilers should have their eyes on Ekblad or LD, I thought I read that Bennett is projected more as a winger in the NHL, if that's the case I don't see the Oilers needing him.
I disagree a lot of people are getting caught up on LD because he is physically bigger. He's also got questionable skating ability and a reputation of playing soft despite his size.

Overall though if the Oilers think LD is better player I'm alright with him being picked.

What I've read actually seems to suggest the opposite. LD will end up the wing player and Bennett is a much more tenacious player capable of winning puck battles. He sounds much more like the kind of player the Oilers need.

I don't try to get too caught up on size though because what the Oilers need are more ferocious players who can retrieve pucks so if that's the guy they get I don't care how tall he is.

They've got a lot of size on the backend coming up and some prospects like Moroz who can add more size. I'd hate to see them get caught up on height and miss out on the better player because of it.

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05-03-2014, 09:47 PM
  #35
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shocker that the op doesnt think the canucks should have to pay much to jump into the top 3 of the draft

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05-03-2014, 09:47 PM
  #36
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I disagree a lot of people are getting caught up on LD because he is physically bigger. He's also got questionable skating ability and a reputation of playing soft despite his size.

Overall though if the Oilers think LD is better player I'm alright with him being picked.

What I've read actually seems to suggest the opposite. LD will end up the wing player and Bennett is a much more tenacious player capable of winning puck battles. He sounds much more like the kind of player the Oilers need.

I don't try to get too caught up on size though because what the Oilers need are more ferocious players who can retrieve pucks so if that's the guy they get I don't care how tall he is.

They've got a lot of size on the backend coming up and some prospects like Moroz who can add more size. I'd hate to see them get caught up on height and miss out on the better player because of it.
Hard to argue against Bennett at 3rd, would be a great pick up for the Oilers. You guys could use a guy with that hard compete level like what he brings.

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05-03-2014, 09:53 PM
  #37
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shocker that the op doesnt think the canucks should have to pay much to jump into the top 3 of the draft
The difference between Ehlers and Reinhart is nil... A lot of these guy in this top 7 don't have a drop off in skill.. Ehlers and Nylander are every bit and maybe more so as talented as Reinhart and Bennett. Canucks interest in Reinhart would be because BC boy and a center, we do have Horvat and Gaunce pretty much ready for the NHL too so I'm not sure how much of a hurray we'll be in.

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05-03-2014, 09:54 PM
  #38
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Hard to argue against Bennett at 3rd, would be a great pick up for the Oilers. You guys could use a guy with that hard compete level like what he brings.
I do have a relative amount of faith that whoever they pick will be solid. I know some of their picks lately have been tap ins being so high but I can't really dispute their picks.

Maybe Trouba or Gally instead of Yak in hindsight but I still think Yakupov is going to be at least a 25 goal guy in the near future maybe.

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05-04-2014, 01:49 AM
  #39
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It would be better for Vancouver to move down a few spots and get an additional pick and/or prospect. Chances are someone grabbed at 8-15 could turn out to be a better NHLer (in 5 years) than a 1-6 guy in this draft. This is a very odd draft...no franchise guys, a lot of questions marks, and a lot of really intriguing talent that's hovering around the middle and end of the first round (rankings-wise).

Vancouver doesn't really have all that great of a prospect pool at the moment, and adding an extra piece or two, and potentially getting a guy who is just as good in the mid-round instead of 6th could pay huge dividends in a few years.

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05-04-2014, 02:09 AM
  #40
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The difference between Ehlers and Reinhart is nil... A lot of these guy in this top 7 don't have a drop off in skill.. Ehlers and Nylander are every bit and maybe more so as talented as Reinhart and Bennett. Canucks interest in Reinhart would be because BC boy and a center, we do have Horvat and Gaunce pretty much ready for the NHL too so I'm not sure how much of a hurray we'll be in.
You're seriously saying that a wellrounded, two-way center is comparable to a one-dimensional winger? Their offensive production is also similar. If the top-7 in this draft is equal, why the hell would Vancouver even want to trade up? The answer is that the top-7 isn't.

And there's practically 0% chance that Sabres would trade down that many spots. They will be happy drafting either of the Sam's.

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05-04-2014, 02:19 AM
  #41
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Ill add Edler to the 6th for any of the top 3 picks.

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05-04-2014, 02:41 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by iFan View Post
The difference between Ehlers and Reinhart is nil... A lot of these guy in this top 7 don't have a drop off in skill.. Ehlers and Nylander are every bit and maybe more so as talented as Reinhart and Bennett. Canucks interest in Reinhart would be because BC boy and a center, we do have Horvat and Gaunce pretty much ready for the NHL too so I'm not sure how much of a hurray we'll be in.
I think a lot of people beg to differ. If there is not difference than whats the point of moving up anyways lol. There is certainly a falloff.

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05-04-2014, 05:25 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by iFan View Post
The difference between Ehlers and Reinhart is nil... A lot of these guy in this top 7 don't have a drop off in skill.. Ehlers and Nylander are every bit and maybe more so as talented as Reinhart and Bennett. Canucks interest in Reinhart would be because BC boy and a center, we do have Horvat and Gaunce pretty much ready for the NHL too so I'm not sure how much of a hurray we'll be in.
Lol. If Vancouver was sitting with the 1st overall pick, I bet the difference between Ehlers and Reinhart wouldnt be "nil".. since Vancouver has the 6th overall pick, of course the difference between the 2 is nil.

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05-04-2014, 05:40 AM
  #44
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True true, but for only one spot below?

#6 + 2015 2nd for #5 2015 3rd
In using his last 8 first round picks, Snow has....

Traded down once. 2008 at the start of he rebuild,went from 5th to 9th.
Traded up once.
Stood pat six tines.

Snow says he takes BPA. Isles are not moving down and giving up a 3rd in good draft for a 2nd in a good draft. They will take BPA and go sit down. Then the Canucks can choose among whoever is still on the board.

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05-04-2014, 09:47 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by iFan View Post
The difference between Ehlers and Reinhart is nil... A lot of these guy in this top 7 don't have a drop off in skill.. Ehlers and Nylander are every bit and maybe more so as talented as Reinhart and Bennett. Canucks interest in Reinhart would be because BC boy and a center, we do have Horvat and Gaunce pretty much ready for the NHL too so I'm not sure how much of a hurray we'll be in.
The difference between the two is substantial.

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05-04-2014, 10:12 AM
  #46
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And neither are "franchise" centers.
Well, if there's anyone who can identify a franchise center, it's a Leafs fan, right?

Why couldn't Bennett/Reinhart/Draisaitl be a franchise center? Either way, it doesn't matter what fans of teams picking outside that range think, BUF/EDM/CAL all need centers badly. A 2nd rder or B prospect isn't going to do anything to intrigue them.

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05-04-2014, 10:26 AM
  #47
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Oilers need LD more than the Sams... Oilers need to get some size in that top 6, they got that high end skill and fast skaters they need a big center with a strong defensive play, Oilers should have their eyes on Ekblad or LD, I thought I read that Bennett is projected more as a winger in the NHL, if that's the case I don't see the Oilers needing him.
Bennett is a better defensive player than LD, plays bigger than LD, is a better skater... I don't see how Bennett isn't just as big (if not a bigger) need. MacT is supposedly very high on Draisaitl, but also discussed in his season exit interview that he's looking to acquire "drivers," people that push the pace and take over games. At the end of the day, MacT consults with Eakins on players (Bennett fits that bill more) and in the past Stu MacGregor has had final say. I think the majority of our fan base is hoping for Bennett.

As for the winger thing, he's played center his entire junior career. The guy played wing in midget because his center was Connor McDavid. Since then, everyone seems to speculate he'd be a winger despite the fact he is exclusively a center in Kingston. If there were question marks about his ability to play center, would he have been voted smartest player in the coaches poll? To me it suggests he's grasped the position quite well.

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05-04-2014, 02:20 PM
  #48
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The difference between the two is substantial.
Not really, Ehlers is a strong defensive player as well, there was a report that Ehlers biggest down fall is not coming to North America sooner and if he came a year earlier he'd be in the mix as the top prospect. Reinhart isn't going to be on MacKinnon's level. Don't get me wrong I'd love to get Reinhart I like that type of player but he's not on the same talent level as top 3 picks in past years, in last years draft he'd likely be after Monahan.

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05-04-2014, 02:54 PM
  #49
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There's no fact that the cost to move up one spot in this draft is a 2015 2nd... There's also no fact the Canucks are looking to move all the way up to the 5th spot lol I like where we're drafting... If Ehlers or Nylander or Ritchie or more than one of them get taken in the top 5 then we land the guy who drops... I don't get why Canucks should be giving away a great pick in the 2015 draft to move up one spot when the talent level isn't dropping from 5th to 6th, people talk about this being a top 5 but it's more on the lines of a top 7 maybe top 8 depending how you feel about Ritchie.

Keep your pick and we'll happily talk to Panthers, Sabres and Oilers about possibly moving up.. If no deal can be made that makes sense taking Ehlers at 6th isn't a bad thing. Honestly I wouldn't be too willing to give up much to move up into the top 3 cause Reinhart and Bennett aren't really better than Ehlers or Nylander, this draft a lot of these guys are close in talent and projection so there's no point in overpaying to move up in this draft. If we were picking outside of the top 8 then you'd have a case as the talent level starts to drop.

Again I don't get why you're trying so hard to convince us we need or want to move up one spot? Is it because you might want Ehlers and instead of taking him at 5th to cash in on trading down? Lol it's ok you can take him at 5th and we'll catch the dropper or we can have Ehlers either way it works out for the Canucks and we keep a very good draft pick in the 2015 draft and land a top prospect in this draft

That poster never argued that Nucks will or should move down. He simply stated that, based on recent history, moving up a spot on the top end of the draft would cost a 2nd.

You may not think that would be a smart move, but nobody is claiming it would be.

Realistically, a move down could only occur if teams in the top five liked an Ehlers type better than higher ranked prospects.

Personally, I doubt that is the case.

I am with the poster above who thinks Van would be better served moving down and adding picks.

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05-04-2014, 03:02 PM
  #50
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Lol. If Vancouver was sitting with the 1st overall pick, I bet the difference between Ehlers and Reinhart wouldnt be "nil".. since Vancouver has the 6th overall pick, of course the difference between the 2 is nil.
Same team one year later

Nathan MacKinnon 44 games 75pts

Nikolaj Ehlers 63 games 104pts

The kid has talent and a high end skill level, so yeah I don't think there's a huge difference between him and Reinhart, Bennett and others in this draft, Ehlers is known as a strong defensive player as well.

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