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Old
05-05-2014, 04:12 PM
  #101
FlyersFan61290
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
By puck possession in that he has to be a good forechecker and cycler to be successful. He has to lead the line he is on to do that. Thats who I consider a puck possession guy. Whenever he has been successful he is playing tough.

And all of the teams that you pointed out have several players that standout. Thats very very obvious. It does not take a genius to say that a team with 19 players playing well is better than a team with 3 people. Its pretty obvious this team is built down the middle with more support wingers and D. Therefore you real do need couts and schenn to do well for our team to be a competitor. I actually thought this was pretty obvious? If couts and schenn are 60-70 pt players the puck possession time would be a lot different. We would have three lines, waves, coming all game long. Thats a little different than schenn ALWAYS stuck in his end and couts some what neutral.
One team in the league consistently has two center's in the top thirty in C scoring, the Penguins. Anything above 55pts get you in the top 30 in C scoring yearly. So what you're saying is the Flyers need to have three #1 centers including a ppg+ center and need to be the highest scoring team in the league by a significant margin (unless you think all production needs to come from centers and little from the wings). If you honestly think that then just give up now, the cup will never come. That just isn't practical, there simply isn't enough ice time for that (or cap space ).

Btw, I was being generous when I said #1 C's. By 60-70 pts you're actually saying the Flyers need 3 top 20 centers including a ppg center.


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05-05-2014, 05:29 PM
  #102
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I wonder if Anaheim would consider trading Hampus Lindholm if we are willing to part with the Schenns. We could probably add in the negotiating rights to Daniel Winnik and try to sign him for $2M AAV. I also think we will make a play for Cammalleri to add speed and scoring (I see Gaborik staying in LA).

Cammalleri - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Raffl - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo/Laughton - Winnik - Hall
Rosehill

Streit - MacDonald
Timonen - Lindholm
Gustafsson - Coburn
UFA

Mason
UFA

I don't really like it, but it's a possibility.

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05-05-2014, 05:43 PM
  #103
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I wonder if Anaheim would consider trading Hampus Lindholm if we are willing to part with the Schenns. We could probably add in the negotiating rights to Daniel Winnik and try to sign him for $2M AAV. I also think we will make a play for Cammalleri to add speed and scoring (I see Gaborik staying in LA).

Cammalleri - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Raffl - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo/Laughton - Winnik - Hall
Rosehill

Streit - MacDonald
Timonen - Lindholm
Gustafsson - Coburn
UFA

Mason
UFA

I don't really like it, but it's a possibility.
I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, but I doubt the Ducks go for it. Lindholm has top pairing potential, and is only 20 - and while I know they need a center, they also have the 10th overall pick in this draft, so they could potentially get a good player there without giving up on Lindholm.

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05-05-2014, 06:04 PM
  #104
BrimFullofAsham45
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I highly doubt Lindholm is being traded. Though, I am not sure if he is as good as the hype, or if he is simply HFBoards-flavor-of-the-month-sexy-young-player.

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Old
05-05-2014, 06:38 PM
  #105
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Lindholm is the real deal, from the couple of Ducks game i've seen i noticed that the guy is a great skater and his awareness,positioning are amazing . i would be shocked if he isn't considered a top pairing Dman in few years.

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Old
05-05-2014, 06:39 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Tedeward View Post
Trade Vinny (Optional), Gross and Gus for a shutdown dman like Hjalmarsson or Sign one.
Sign Cammalleri
Sign Vrbata (Optional)
Sign Montoya

Cammalleri-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Read-Couts-(Vrbata/Vinny)
Raffl-Laughton-Akeson/Rasmussen

Macdonald-Coburn
Streit-Schenn
(Shut-Down Dman)-Ghost

Mason
Montoya

Might be a stretch to have Vrbata on the 3rd line but I like him there. Vinny would be good too.
You're aiming way too low. We can probably add Rosehill + a 3rd to that package and get Seabrook along with Hjalmmarson.

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05-05-2014, 07:13 PM
  #107
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You're aiming way too low. We can probably add Rosehill + a 3rd to that package and get Seabrook along with Hjalmmarson.
Lol. I had a similar response in mind.

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05-05-2014, 07:45 PM
  #108
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I highly doubt Lindholm is being traded. Though, I am not sure if he is as good as the hype, or if he is simply HFBoards-flavor-of-the-month-sexy-young-player.
Vantanen is gettable though and worth it.

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05-05-2014, 08:00 PM
  #109
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What about something around the #10 pick and Vatanen for B. Schenn or B. Schenn +?

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05-05-2014, 08:10 PM
  #110
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Apologies in advance for asking what's probably a dumb question. Any chance of signing UFAs Stralman or Niskanen? Boyle just seems like another geriatric.

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05-05-2014, 08:10 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
What about something around the #10 pick and Vatanen for B. Schenn or B. Schenn +?
The plus would need to be significant IMO.

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05-05-2014, 08:13 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
Apologies in advance for asking what's probably a dumb question. Any chance of signing UFAs Stralman or Niskanen? Boyle just seems like another geriatric.
Niskanen will likely get somewhere in between $5.5-$6M possibly even more if he wants it. Stralman's looking at probably $4.5-$5M range.

At those prices it may be wiser just to bring Timonen back on the shorter term even if the money is the same.


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Old
05-05-2014, 09:33 PM
  #113
BrimFullofAsham45
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Vatanen definitely impressed me for Team Finland. But isnt he pretty small? Like 5'9 or 5'10? Not sure if the team will go for another little guy after locking up Streit and MacDonald.

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05-05-2014, 09:54 PM
  #114
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I don't think they'll sell low. They still have the twins and Kesler, I can't imagine he's moved with all of those guys still on the team.

The asking price from the fans is outrageously high.

Btw, Kimmo gets ragged on a lot but he was still the Flyers second best defender in terms of actually playing defense. I doubt Edler would be an upgrade.
I should have qualified that, of arguable first-pairing defensemen, Edler could be expected to be relatively affordable. The Canucks won't give him away, but I could see a deal struck much more palatably than with some of the usual suspects.

I don't think too many put much stock in what fans are asking for. We collectively have been so off on what player X has brought back.

As for Timonen, he still has a great defensive IQ, but his body is definitely not doing what he needs it to do -- especially speed -- to maintain his high level of years past. Edler is faster and is a smooth puck-carrier.

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05-05-2014, 09:54 PM
  #115
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Free agents are supposed to be complementary pieces to contend and a core should be built *mostly* through your own prospects and drafts. If you try to mess with that you end up more like the Rangers then Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, etc.

There's not much out there in free agency as far as names go and we can't afford to give away many spots with how many D we're bringing up through the system. I haven't looked at the forward group for free agency but for the love of god no more players whose PP abilities far exceed their ES abilities. More Read or Couturier-like players and less Lecavalier or Simmonds/Hartnell-like players. So no Moulson or Vanek please. Scoring itself isn't a problem for this team, but ES competency is. Guys like Vanek/Moulson exacerbate that greatly.

Ill look at the free agents later, but for acquisitions in general I really only see three or four priorities:

-Forwards we can trust and ride at ES.

-Backup goalie who doesn't have a dead hip assuming they don't re-sign Emery. Which I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

-Rinaldo replacement to take regular fourth line shifts. Which ties-in to bringing in ES forwards.

-Maybe a stop-gap D to sign for one to three years to take Kimmo's spot. Maybe. Ideally Kimmo would go, Grossmann would go, Gill would go, one or two of the D prospects would step up, and a steady upper-middle kind of D brought in like...Niskanen I guess?

Won't ever happen, but something like:

Streit-Coburn
Niskanen-Schenn
MacDonald-Ghost/Hagg

Would be great I think. Won't happen, but still. Replace Niskanen with Gustafsson and it's completely realistic in that it'd be easy to do, but I really doubt they lose Grossmann or give up Kimmo without trying to sign him.

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05-05-2014, 10:12 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Free agents are supposed to be complementary pieces to contend and a core should be built *mostly* through your own prospects and drafts. If you try to mess with that you end up more like the Rangers then Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, etc.

There's not much out there in free agency as far as names go and we can't afford to give away many spots with how many D we're bringing up through the system. I haven't looked at the forward group for free agency but for the love of god no more players whose PP abilities far exceed their ES abilities. More Read or Couturier-like players and less Lecavalier or Simmonds/Hartnell-like players. So no Moulson or Vanek please. Scoring itself isn't a problem for this team, but ES competency is. Guys like Vanek/Moulson exacerbate that greatly.

Ill look at the free agents later, but for acquisitions in general I really only see three or four priorities:

-Forwards we can trust and ride at ES.

-Backup goalie who doesn't have a dead hip assuming they don't re-sign Emery. Which I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

-Rinaldo replacement to take regular fourth line shifts. Which ties-in to bringing in ES forwards.

-Maybe a stop-gap D to sign for one to three years to take Kimmo's spot. Maybe. Ideally Kimmo would go, Grossmann would go, Gill would go, one or two of the D prospects would step up, and a steady upper-middle kind of D brought in like...Niskanen I guess?

Won't ever happen, but something like:

Streit-Coburn
Niskanen-Schenn
MacDonald-Ghost/Hagg

Would be great I think. Won't happen, but still. Replace Niskanen with Gustafsson and it's completely realistic in that it'd be easy to do, but I really doubt they lose Grossmann or give up Kimmo without trying to sign him.
If the admin is confident that one of the rookies can step into the bottom pair, I could see a cheap reliable vet like Mike Weaver or Ron Hainsey to pair with him. Put a $1 million contract in front of 3-4 dmen of this profile and roll with the first one who signs. Not a slo-mo plug like Gill.

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05-05-2014, 10:17 PM
  #117
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Looking at just free agents and getting rid of players I don't want here who wouldn't be hard to toss:

ES Lines/Depth Chart

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Simmonds-Couturier-Kulemin
Read-Schenn-Lecavalier
Raffl-Laughton-Hall
Rosehill

Streit-Coburn
MacDonald-Ghost
Schenn-Gustafsson
Alt?

Mason
Elliott/Greiss/Stalock

PP 1

Simmonds-Giroux-Lecavalier/Voracek
Streit-Ghost/Gustafsson

PP 2

Schenn-Couturier-Hartnell
MacDonald-Read

PK 1

Couturier-Read
MacDonald-Hall

Laughton-Kulemin
Coburn-Giroux/Raffl

PK can be changed around but that all seems very good to me as well as easily accomplished. Will never happen because it would require Grossmann, Rinaldo, Kimmo, and Emery all leaving but it's the ideal lineup to me. Competency all throughout the lineup in all areas of the game tailored to a coach (who I hate) that emphasizes line matching which can actually be done with this lineup.

Kulemin and the backup are the only out of house additions and we honestly only need about that much.

We need to increase our ES ability which means guys like Kulemin and we need to have patience since we aren't going to contend soon and need to develop some prospects. Couturier also needs to see more offensive opportunity I think.


Last edited by Garbage Goal: 05-05-2014 at 10:56 PM.
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Old
05-05-2014, 10:30 PM
  #118
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You're missing Voracek on the PP

Also I think a big reason Couts isn't on the PP is because of his PK time. Add in 2 min of pp (what 2nd unit members got this yr) and he's playing 22 minutes a game.

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05-05-2014, 10:30 PM
  #119
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I really do not want any fa out there that's more than a couple of year/<3.5 a year type contract

I've had enough of the albatross deals

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05-05-2014, 10:52 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
You're missing Voracek on the PP

Also I think a big reason Couts isn't on the PP is because of his PK time. Add in 2 min of pp (what 2nd unit members got this yr) and he's playing 22 minutes a game.
Knew I was forgetting someone.

That's the whole point of adding a guy like Kulemin, losing Grossmann and Rinaldo, and mixing up the lines slightly though. To give more PK options in addition to better ability to roll four lines at ES so Couturier can play less in a strictly defensive role and more in a mixed one. People want Couturier to take the next step offensively but well never even see if he can do that if he's thrown out there in a strictly defensive role. Can't have your cake and eat it too (not you specifically, but you get my point).

It's not like were contending soon anyhow so why not give him that opportunity the same time were giving guys like Laughton and Ghost opportunity?

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05-05-2014, 11:00 PM
  #121
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Schenn-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Couturier-Read
Jokinen-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Raffl-Laughton-Hall
Rosehill

Streit-Coburn
MacDonald-Schenn
Weaver-Ghost
Gustafsson

Mason
Montoya

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Old
05-06-2014, 12:06 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Niskanen will likely get somewhere in between $5.5-$6M possibly even more if he wants it. Stralman's looking at probably $4.5-$5M range.

At those prices it may be wiser just to bring Timonen back on the shorter term even if the money is the same.
Niskanen should be the Flyers top target in free agency. He has a great combination of speed/offense/defense and would be a great d pairing for Coburn. You bring back Kimmo for a cheaper amount and you trade Grossmann for whatever draft pick you can get for him. Getting him would allow Kimmo to be fresh for the playoffs too which would be huge for the team.

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05-06-2014, 12:09 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Schenn-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Couturier-Read
Jokinen-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Raffl-Laughton-Hall
Rosehill

Streit-Coburn
MacDonald-Schenn
Weaver-Ghost
Gustafsson

Mason
Montoya
Jokinen might actually get some of us Flyer fans to enjoy the shootouts!!

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Old
05-06-2014, 12:13 AM
  #124
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No UFA signings on defense are worth it other than Timonen if he returns for under ~$4mil. If anything, we should look at moving a defender or two depending on what moves can be made. Especially with the kids ready to break into the NHL like Gostisbehere and Hagg with Morin still in juniors.

Coburn ($4.5mil) - Timonen ($4mil)
Streit ($5.25mil) - Grossmann ($3.5mil)
MacDonald ($5mil) - L. Schenn ($3.6mil)
Gustafsson ($1mil)

= $26.85mil + $5mil from Pronger that must be accounted for over the offseason ... ridiculously expensive defense for their talent level... although defense-by-committee isn't a bad idea. No improvement since this past season which would make sense given what Holmgren has said, although he wouldn't pass up an opportunity to improve.

Streit should be used as the #1 PP guy, with Andy MacDonald and possibly Timonen/Gustafsson on the #2 unit. Shayne Gostisbehere, when he arrives, will likely see a permanent spot on the #2 unit - I like to compare Gostisbehere to Torey Krug in Boston where I think 'Ghost' can make an impact as soon as next season, although I wouldn't just give him a spot and would hope he sticks when he gets his call-up.

Grossmann, Brayden Schenn (and by association Luke Schenn), and the lower trade value vets like Lecavalier and Hartnell would seem to be the roster players on the 'hopeful' block. I'd like to see Couturier given the 2C slot and used in a more two-way role with Wayne Simmonds and Matt Read 5v5, while Giroux's line remains the dominant go-to line. Vinny Lecavalier is used as the 3C if Brayden Schenn is moved OR if Schenn'r becomes the option at first-line LW:

xxx (B. Schenn) - Giroux - Voracek
Read - Couturier - Simmonds
Hartnell - Lecavalier - xxx (Akeson)
Raffl - Laughton - xxx
Rosehill, Rinaldo

Read+Couturier already saw the 2nd most 5v5 TOI, next to Giroux. Voracek is clearly a top line player but using him with Couturier wouldn't be a bad idea either. Scott Hartnell was 5th in TOI 5v5 only because he played with Giroux and Voracek and he also saw top unit PP time, while Wayne Simmonds rounded out the top-6 and was a final member of the PP and deservedly so. Schenn, Akeson, Raffl and Lecavalier all saw significantly less 5v5 minutes than those in the top-6, although they all some special teams time.

Obvious needs:
a) 1st line LW ... somebody like JVR would be great (lol), although a big bodied plus-skater will be hard to find. If somebody like Patrick Marleau becomes available, I take a long look at him if I'm Holmgren. Brayden Schenn could easily be a 30-30 player in this league if he could fit on this line.
Ideal fits: Vanek, Marleau, Evander Kane, etc.

b) Top-pairing two-way defender ... unlikely to find somebody like this although something close who can put up some points would be great. I like Edler, Ehrhoff, Kulikov, and maybe somebody from Winnipeg like Bogosian or Byfuglien (although Big Buff wouldn't really help any defensive woes) although again somebody on our current defense would have to be moved and/or Timonen will likely have to retire in order for this to fit.

c) Improving the 4th line ... Jason Akeson and Scott Laughton are two possible mainstays on this club moving forward, hoping that Laughton is ready and Akeson continues what he did this past postseason. Zac Rinaldo is a liability and doesn't do much by way of two-way play or offensive contribution. Raffl-Laughton-Rinaldo would be bearable but I'd like to see Laughton flanked by two quality two-way players in order to ease his way into the NHL.

d) Finding where Vinny fits ... If Brayden Schenn isn't moved, Vinny becomes an issue both with fitting under the cap and having a logjam at centre. I do like Brayden Schenn but I think if he could allow the Flyers to acquire an elite talent at LW or a quality top-4/2 defender, I move him. If Brayden can fit with Giroux and Voracek on the 1st line, that will be a great option.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the coming months!

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05-06-2014, 12:52 AM
  #125
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Niskanen should be the Flyers top target in free agency. He has a great combination of speed/offense/defense and would be a great d pairing for Coburn. You bring back Kimmo for a cheaper amount and you trade Grossmann for whatever draft pick you can get for him. Getting him would allow Kimmo to be fresh for the playoffs too which would be huge for the team.
No. He's not a #1 defenseman and he'll be getting #1 money. He won't fix much on this team. Anything regarding Niskanen is a terrible idea.

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