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The Official Ron Hextall as Flyers GM endorsement Thread

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Old
10-01-2013, 11:15 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
The thing that delights/scares me about hextall is i think he has patience. Building through the draft isnt beyond him and i could totally see him allowing the team to suck/develop over several years. Does he have enough credibility to rebuild the franchise into his team is a tough question. i think so but it doesnt make it easy.
why is it that paul holmgren can't/wont build through the draft?

he thought we were close in 09 and swang for the fences in 10,11. since then, he hasnt made any real organizational depth poor choices.

this guy isnt milbury....

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10-02-2013, 01:56 AM
  #27
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I am not sure what Hextall has done to warrant such admiration as an assistant GM. LA was terrible for a long time, which is not something he cant do in Philly, and acquired a ton of draft choices. There was a lot of misses in those choices: Thomas Hickey, Colton Teubert, and Derek Forbort from the 1st round. He got there in June of 2006 so I am not sure if Bernier and Lewis is on him but it is not an impressive record for 1st round drafting especially compared to Holmgren.

LA was terrible for a long time, sold off their team multiple times at the deadline, and acquired a lot of picks and thus assets that they traded to get over the top. That strategy, though successful, does not work with the Flyers ownership and 18,000 season ticket holders. He will be under a totally different set of circumstances and expectations here. Nothing about LA will apply to Philly. Case in point, fans calling for Holmgren to be fired after missing the playoffs once during a strike shortened season.
Good post. Can't really argue with any of it.

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10-02-2013, 02:11 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I am not sure what Hextall has done to warrant such admiration as an assistant GM. LA was terrible for a long time, which is not something he cant do in Philly, and acquired a ton of draft choices. There was a lot of misses in those choices: Thomas Hickey, Colton Teubert, and Derek Forbort from the 1st round. He got there in June of 2006 so I am not sure if Bernier and Lewis is on him but it is not an impressive record for 1st round drafting especially compared to Holmgren.

LA was terrible for a long time, sold off their team multiple times at the deadline, and acquired a lot of picks and thus assets that they traded to get over the top. That strategy, though successful, does not work with the Flyers ownership and 18,000 season ticket holders. He will be under a totally different set of circumstances and expectations here. Nothing about LA will apply to Philly. Case in point, fans calling for Holmgren to be fired after missing the playoffs once during a strike shortened season.
Well honestly, he hasn't done a lot that we know of. But he's a recognizable/popular name coming from a team that just had success, and by all accounts a GM spot is in his future. He's definitely paid his dues, starting off in the scouting department over a decade ago and working his way up.

What makes me excited is the possibility he knows goalies. What gives me pause is Quick was drafted before he got there, and Bernier was drafted at around the same time...so who knows how involved he was with that decision.

I definitely prefer him to Hanrahan, who has done a questionable job as the CBA guy/capologist.

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10-02-2013, 06:01 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Well honestly, he hasn't done a lot that we know of. But he's a recognizable/popular name coming from a team that just had success, and by all accounts a GM spot is in his future. He's definitely paid his dues, starting off in the scouting department over a decade ago and working his way up.

What makes me excited is the possibility he knows goalies. What gives me pause is Quick was drafted before he got there, and Bernier was drafted at around the same time...so who knows how involved he was with that decision.

I definitely prefer him to Hanrahan, who has done a questionable job as the CBA guy/capologist.
I agree with you that he will make a good successor in the future, just don't understand those who want to replace Holmgren right now with him and expect him to be better. Fans have a right to complain about their teams GM, but the reality is Holmgren has had a very good record here: 5 out of 6 years in the playoffs with last years half season bs as the exception, 4 years in the 2nd rd, 2 conference championships appearances, 1 Stanley cup final. There have been very few teams to have that type of success lately, especially without being dreadful first for many years before hand.

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10-02-2013, 09:50 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I agree with you that he will make a good successor in the future, just don't understand those who want to replace Holmgren right now with him and expect him to be better. Fans have a right to complain about their teams GM, but the reality is Holmgren has had a very good record here: 5 out of 6 years in the playoffs with last years half season bs as the exception, 4 years in the 2nd rd, 2 conference championships appearances, 1 Stanley cup final. There have been very few teams to have that type of success lately, especially without being dreadful first for many years before hand.
Because he has been inconsistent and mediocre particularly since the big trade. I thought he redeemed himself a bit with the Carter and Richards trades and then he goes and get Bryz (maybe he should have "debated" his owner harder), continues to hold on to a coach that will most likely be ousted mid season despite there being good candidates in the offseason, continues to assemble a team that doesn't necessarily fit the coach's style particularly the D men and we are staring down the barrel of another underachieving year and possibly missing the playoffs because of all this.

The only thing he has been exceptional at has been drafting and all we have to do is keep the same staff.

I'm not sold on Hextall necessarily either and you make valid points but again b/c Snider is still breathing and won't stray from his cosa nostra family run business model..Hextall is pretty much a shoe in to be GM so why fight it. At least he has built up his resume..he deserves a chance to prove himself..might as well be here.

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10-02-2013, 10:06 AM
  #31
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Psuhockey hit the nail on the head, couldn't have put it better. Also I don't think Homer has done that bad of a job, IMO his biggest mistake is keeping Lavy around, a little toooo long. This team needs a coach that promotes a better defensive system that fits the individuals we currently have.

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10-02-2013, 10:27 AM
  #32
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Because he has been inconsistent and mediocre particularly since the big trade. I thought he redeemed himself a bit with the Carter and Richards trades and then he goes and get Bryz (maybe he should have "debated" his owner harder), continues to hold on to a coach that will most likely be ousted mid season despite there being good candidates in the offseason, continues to assemble a team that doesn't necessarily fit the coach's style particularly the D men and we are staring down the barrel of another underachieving year and possibly missing the playoffs because of all this.

The only thing he has been exceptional at has been drafting and all we have to do is keep the same staff.

I'm not sold on Hextall necessarily either and you make valid points but again b/c Snider is still breathing and won't stray from his cosa nostra family run business model..Hextall is pretty much a shoe in to be GM so why fight it. At least he has built up his resume..he deserves a chance to prove himself..might as well be here.
He signed Bryz because Snider told him to go out and get him at all cost.

The retooled young team overachieved in the first year after the Richards and Carter trade so it was kinda hard to fire Lavi when things turned a little rough.

I agree that the roster as it is, in particular defense, is not a good fit for Lavis's system but Streit was by far the best puck mover available on the UFA market and Homer got him. Maybe he could have traded for a real difference maker but not without tearing apart the forward corps.
They tried to draft 2 high quality D prospects. Too little, too late but a move in the right direction.

No excuse for keeping Lavi on a long leash way too long. Some boneheaded minor moves but all in all Homer has not been the issue. Just my two cents.

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10-02-2013, 10:39 AM
  #33
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He signed Bryz because Snider told him to go out and get him at all cost.

The retooled young team overachieved in the first year after the Richards and Carter trade so it was kinda hard to fire Lavi when things turned a little rough.

I agree that the roster as it is, in particular defense, is not a good fit for Lavis's system but Streit was by far the best puck mover available on the UFA market and Homer got him. Maybe he could have traded for a real difference maker but not without tearing apart the forward corps.
They tried to draft 2 high quality D prospects. Too little, too late but a move in the right direction.

No excuse for keeping Lavi on a long leash way too long. Some boneheaded minor moves but all in all Homer has not been the issue. Just my two cents.
Signing Bryz and not doing his homework was a massive mistake and invariably lead to us losing Bob. Yeah Snider probably was the main impetus behind it but Holmgren doesn't get a free pass on that one. Nobody should ...yet they all have.

Keeping Lavi too long like Stevens before him is not a minor mistake especially when it can cost you the playoffs. Even with Stevens he was saved by the skin of his teeth. He would have had 2 missed playoff seasons on his record if not for the miracle on ice we saw in 2010 in the second half when he finally realized he had to dump Stevens.

Last offseason he made too many miscalcs as well causing us to miss the playoffs....the Carle and Jagr losses because he chased the pipe dream of Parise and Suter hurt the team more than people are willing to admit. He had no plan B and the stopgaps of Gervais, Foster, Huskins, Knuble and Gagne for the loss of those two players were worthless.

Let's also not forget that Holmgren went on record to say that Lavi needed to adjust his style and basically help defend Bryz more. If you don't like your coache's system then get rid of him! Another mistake...

Again, he hasn't been very good since the Carter and Richards trade which I fully endorsed and felt was necessary for various reasons...

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10-02-2013, 10:54 AM
  #34
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Signing Bryz and not doing his homework was a massive mistake and invariably lead to us losing Bob. Yeah Snider probably was the main impetus behind it but Holmgren doesn't get a free pass on that one. Nobody should ...yet they all have.

Keeping Lavi too long like Stevens before him is not a minor mistake especially when it can cost you the playoffs. Even with Stevens he was saved by the skin of his teeth. He would have had 2 missed playoff seasons on his record if not for the miracle on ice we saw in 2010 in the second half when he finally realized he had to dump Stevens.

Last offseason he made too many miscalcs as well causing us to miss the playoffs....the Carle and Jagr losses because he chased the pipe dream of Parise and Suter hurt the team more than people are willing to admit. He had no plan B and the stopgaps of Gervais, Foster, Huskins, Knuble and Gagne for the loss of those two players were worthless.

Let's also not forget that Holmgren went on record to say that Lavi needed to adjust his style and basically help defend Bryz more. If you don't like your coache's system then get rid of him! Another mistake...

Again, he hasn't been very good since the Carter and Richards trade which I fully endorsed and felt was necessary for various reasons...
You make some good points but you must be under the assumption that another GM would have produced a better overall record than Holmgren. When you actually compare his record to that of his peers, he is upper echelon. Here is the list of teams that have had 2 conference championship appearances and 4 2nd playoff appearances in the last 6 years(Holmgren's time as full time GM): Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston, Detroit, and San Jose.

If the Flyers fail to reach the playoffs this year, I agree he deserves to be fired, but it is hard for me to argue against the actual record of the team under his watch.

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10-02-2013, 11:03 AM
  #35
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You make some good points but you must be under the assumption that another GM would have produced a better overall record than Holmgren. When you actually compare his record to that of his peers, he is upper echelon. Here is the list of teams that have had 2 conference championship appearances and 4 2nd playoff appearances in the last 6 years(Holmgren's time as full time GM): Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston, Detroit, and San Jose.

If the Flyers fail to reach the playoffs this year, I agree he deserves to be fired, but it is hard for me to argue against the actual record of the team under his watch.
Those who follow ..never come in first. Holmgren to me is bold when he wants to be and needs to be but his decisions are not well thought out or longitudinal. He seems to be more reactionary than proactive. He dithers a bit too much. Having said this I do believe Snider meddles too much and inhibits his decision making but he needs to challenge his owner more and empower himself if he feels he is being overridden too much. Otherwise..step down....this may happen.

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10-02-2013, 11:31 AM
  #36
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Meh...mere figure heads.....Hextall will lop off their heads with his stick if they meddle too much.

Bull crap

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10-02-2013, 11:54 AM
  #37
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1st goes Lavi and a new head coach is hired, if this doesn't work Homer is gone at the end of the season and Hextall is his replacement.
Only scenario this doesn't happen if the Flyers jump out and have a great start and make the playoffs this year....I have my doubts.

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10-05-2013, 08:35 PM
  #38
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"Suit" up Hexy...

FIRE HOLMGREN AND LAVI.....

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05-07-2014, 12:43 PM
  #39
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Lavi ousted

Holmgren ousted


.....Snider is next on my hit list

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05-07-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
Lavi ousted

Holmgren ousted


.....Snider is next on my hit list
Unless it's an actual hit list I dont think you're in for a hat trick here.

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05-07-2014, 01:13 PM
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Unless it's an actual hit list I dont think you're in for a hat trick here.
Does a man need a name? The name is "Ed Snider".

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05-07-2014, 04:21 PM
  #42
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In honor of Hextall being named I felt this awesome video was worth sharing.


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05-07-2014, 10:02 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I am not sure what Hextall has done to warrant such admiration as an assistant GM. LA was terrible for a long time, which is something he cant do in Philly, and acquired a ton of draft choices. There was a lot of misses in those choices: Thomas Hickey, Colton Teubert, and Derek Forbort from the 1st round. He got there in June of 2006 so I am not sure if Bernier and Lewis is on him but it is not an impressive record for 1st round drafting especially compared to Holmgren.

LA was terrible for a long time, sold off their team multiple times at the deadline, and acquired a lot of picks and thus assets that they traded to get over the top. That strategy, though successful, does not work with the Flyers ownership and 18,000 season ticket holders. He will be under a totally different set of circumstances and expectations here. Nothing about LA will apply to Philly. Case in point, fans calling for Holmgren to be fired after missing the playoffs once during a strike shortened season.
Hickey was bad luck more than anything. It was a reach at the time, and kept getting injured. He is rightfully in the NHL, but injuries will stunt development, plus he was passed on the depth chart.

LA was terrible but they were also terrible when Lombardi and Hextall inherited the team. That isn't the case here, it's a different situation. They didn't have a Giroux and Voracek who were established as top-line players or a Couturier who is established as one of the premiere defensive forwards in the game. The Flyers don't need to burn everything and run into the woods, the Kings did.

I don't dispute that the Kings don't have that strong of a drafting record, but look at how they made that not matter. Now, apply ways it was made to work here. They still have talented defensemen playing key roles (Martinez and Muzzin) who combined make less than #6 defenseman Luke Schenn. It was obviously of benefit of the Flyers obviously that they draft well in Round 1, but they also left no room for error, an effect that was the cause to trading other high draft picks.

The year they "missed" on Forbort, they took Tyler Toffoli in round 2 who they did not miss on.

The year they missed on Teubert, they took Slava Voynov in round 2, who they also didn't miss on.

The year they missed on Hickey, they took Wayne Simmonds in round 2, then Alec Martinez and Dwight King in round 4.

And when you find talent later, it takes longer for them to cost more money, and they cost less than free agents do.

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05-08-2014, 09:07 AM
  #44
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Hickey was bad luck more than anything. It was a reach at the time, and kept getting injured. He is rightfully in the NHL, but injuries will stunt development, plus he was passed on the depth chart.

LA was terrible but they were also terrible when Lombardi and Hextall inherited the team. That isn't the case here, it's a different situation. They didn't have a Giroux and Voracek who were established as top-line players or a Couturier who is established as one of the premiere defensive forwards in the game. The Flyers don't need to burn everything and run into the woods, the Kings did.

I don't dispute that the Kings don't have that strong of a drafting record, but look at how they made that not matter. Now, apply ways it was made to work here. They still have talented defensemen playing key roles (Martinez and Muzzin) who combined make less than #6 defenseman Luke Schenn. It was obviously of benefit of the Flyers obviously that they draft well in Round 1, but they also left no room for error, an effect that was the cause to trading other high draft picks.

The year they "missed" on Forbort, they took Tyler Toffoli in round 2 who they did not miss on.

The year they missed on Teubert, they took Slava Voynov in round 2, who they also didn't miss on.

The year they missed on Hickey, they took Wayne Simmonds in round 2, then Alec Martinez and Dwight King in round 4.

And when you find talent later, it takes longer for them to cost more money, and they cost less than free agents do.
This is a great way to look at things. 1st round picks get the most scrutiny, rightfully so, but what a team does with the rest of their draft picks is also very important.

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05-08-2014, 10:12 AM
  #45
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"I" for incomplete....agreed.

Quote:
Holmgren was blunt in assessing his own performance as GM.

ďWe didnít win,Ē he said. ďAt the end of the day, that is all itís about. ... Unfulfilled. Fulfilling personally, but in terms of what weíre supposed to do, we didnít win.Ē

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...oves-flyers-gm
Let's see how Hexy runs with the ball. Just ironic after that horrible season that got Clarke and Hitch removed , how Holmgren and Snider talked about how they were going to focus on youth and the draft and now Hexy is doing the same thing....

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05-08-2014, 10:36 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
The thing that delights/scares me about hextall is i think he has patience. Building through the draft isnt beyond him and i could totally see him allowing the team to suck/develop over several years. Does he have enough credibility to rebuild the franchise into his team is a tough question. i think so but it doesnt make it easy.
Yup....but I don't think he'll allow the team to suck and obviously neither will Snider but I think Hextall will be more measured and less reactive than Holmgren. In order to do so he will have to be his own man and tell Snider to **** when he gets impatient and has his temper tantrums by standing outside the locker room when the team is not playing well.

I just wonder how many times Hextall will go into the locker room and ream the players? It was far too common with daddy Holmgren IMO....



Quote:
During his time with the Los Angeles Kings, during which he helped build a Stanley Cup-winner from scratch, Hextall learned to place an emphasis on development. When he first returned to the Flyers last summer to become the team's assistant general manager, he made a point of getting acquainted with the Flyers' current crop of prospects. He wanted to be as familiar as possible with the entire organization, because -- even before he learned he'd become GM -- he wanted to do what he could to help the Flyers finally bring home the Cup.

And even if he's eventually successful, as happened in L.A., his philosophy won't change.

“Even when you’re competing at a high level you’ve got to continue to develop,” Hextall said. “... Development is not going to go away. I don’t care if we’re a top-five contender in the league, we’re going to continue development.

“It’s (development) going to continue to be a priority. So are draft picks.”

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...nd-development

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05-08-2014, 11:24 AM
  #47
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Nice....a page from Hinkie. Good to hear he is at least thinking like a GM from the 21st century. Will be interesting how analytical he will be with his roster moves.

Quote:
Hextall has, in my opinion, a healthy viewpoint on the role so-called advanced stats and internally kept analytics play in assessing individual and team performance. On the one hand, it is foolish to simply dismiss their usefulness. There is valuable information to be mined. On the other hand, there is a real danger in taking the individual analytics out of the context of team play and to dismiss traditional metrics and good old fashioned observation because they may not jibe with the advanced analytics.

The new general manager seems to understand that.

Said Hextall, "Analytics is where weíre going. Iím very interested in it. Itís very intriguing. Why I have an analytical mind I have no idea, but I do. You canít overvalue it, but in my mind itís going to become more and more and more valuable, I think in all sports. Itís another tool. Why not use every tool available? You still need eyes on hockey players. You need that. I donít think that will ever change, but the analytics Ė I wouldnít say itís a huge part Ė but itís going to get bigger and bigger. Iím interested. It intrigues me.Ē

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...lding/45/59934

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05-08-2014, 08:32 PM
  #48
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I want to see how this plays out over the next few years, but so far I like what I'm reading.


You did good this time, Snider.

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05-09-2014, 12:53 AM
  #49
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I hope he sticks by the letting young players develop properly and taking their time.... gotta stop rushing players.

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05-09-2014, 05:07 AM
  #50
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As an oiler fan I loved the fact he called out the oilers as a mickey mouse organization and stated bang on they are a joke that is breeding a losing culture-- say what you want about Homer--but he wanted to win and he did what he thought needed to be done to win--got him fired--but every move he did was about winning

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