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If Gainey went all out this summer...

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Old
03-10-2007, 11:27 PM
  #51
kernkraft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler View Post
It was actually Jack Johnson and overpaid Oleg Tverdovsky (a negative value, not an asset) for Bélanger and Tim Gleason.

If you think you can just have Souray "sign a big number" on a contract and send him to Los Angeles, you are dreaming. Los Angeles will make him an offer in the off season if they want him so bad.
Well, if you're so smart, what would you do this summer?

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03-11-2007, 12:37 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by philosophical___ View Post
-
- Acquire a couple players with heart, which would likely have to be guys from Western Canada or Ontario or the US, no more French/European depth players.
.
ok...no Gagne, Lecavalier, St-Louis, Bernier, Briere,or Vermette..gotcha...let's have Asham, Fitzpatrick and bring Tie Domi back from retirement..

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Old
03-11-2007, 01:42 AM
  #53
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1 Higgins Briere Ryder
2 Samsonov Koivu Kostitsyn
3 Latendresse Plekanec Perezhogin
4 Bégin Lapierre Ferland or Trade .. For agitator


LD RD
1-2. Markov Komisarek
3-4. Souray Vishnevski
5-6. Streit Dandenault
7-8. Gorges


Signings :
Brière - 5.5M$ (unrealistic)
Vishnevski - 2.7M$
Markov - 4M$ (unrealistic)
Souray - 5M$ (unrealistic)

Trades :
(2 1st rd picks) OR (1 1st rd + 1 2nd rd + Kovalev) for a top 5 1st round pick

Departures :
Kovalev (4.5M$), Bonk (2.4M$), Johnson (1.9M$), Niniimaa (2.4M$), Aebischer (1.9M$), Bouillon (1.7M$).

This team will have a lot of offensive punch, but lacks size at centre and will need some help at the defense.

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Old
03-11-2007, 08:15 AM
  #54
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Sign 5 high price free agents during the summer, then trade all of them to Washington for Ovechkin. Then have our friend George throw 30 Million at Washington's owner for the deal.

Sure Gary would hate the sale of a player, but maybe some other thing could be fronting for it like say Gillet would buy a few used cars for Wash' owner, saying that's what the 30 Mill was about.

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Old
03-11-2007, 12:23 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
..., but trading Koivu could be a disaster without already knowing a replacement will sign here. I don't think we'll be able to sign Briere, because there are more teams with more cap space and more glaring holes than we have.
Koivu have to go elsewhere, point à la ligne !!!
How could the Habs sign Brière (or Gomez or another #1 center) if Koivu is still here, taking the #1 spot centerman? Trading Koivu solves a problem of salary cap and space to bring a true #1 centerman.

Aren't you bored of watching a team with such a poor first line offensive?
Habs are the worst team in the scoring department since the last 10 years, coincidence with a team building around Koivu. Also Habs went to the PO 6 times in 12 years and won 3 rounds out of 10.

Some things have to change, let's change the first centerman and captain. A first centerman with a goals average of 17 a year, a player that plays good for 40 games a year and then turns extenued, can't follow the rythm. A first centerman that has a weak shot on goal.

Some fans like you RedScull are over-estimating Koivu. Maybe you are too young to know how good Kirk Muller was, Bobby Smith, Jacques Lemaire, Peter Mahovlich or Jean Béliveau. You only saw Saku Koivu and you think he's the best of the world. You think Saku is god.

Isn't it the same forum where there was a pool 3 years ago: “Who would you take between Koivu and Lecavalier?” And Koivu won the pool easyly?
...that tells a lot about the hockey knowlage of the members of this forum... ... matbe you're right : Koivu is way better that Vinny Lecavalier...

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Old
03-11-2007, 03:38 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by HABitude View Post
Koivu have to go elsewhere, point à la ligne !!!
How could the Habs sign Brière (or Gomez or another #1 center) if Koivu is still here, taking the #1 spot centerman? Trading Koivu solves a problem of salary cap and space to bring a true #1 centerman.

Aren't you bored of watching a team with such a poor first line offensive?
Habs are the worst team in the scoring department since the last 10 years, coincidence with a team building around Koivu. Also Habs went to the PO 6 times in 12 years and won 3 rounds out of 10.

Some things have to change, let's change the first centerman and captain. A first centerman with a goals average of 17 a year, a player that plays good for 40 games a year and then turns extenued, can't follow the rythm. A first centerman that has a weak shot on goal.

Some fans like you RedScull are over-estimating Koivu. Maybe you are too young to know how good Kirk Muller was, Bobby Smith, Jacques Lemaire, Peter Mahovlich or Jean Béliveau. You only saw Saku Koivu and you think he's the best of the world. You think Saku is god.

Isn't it the same forum where there was a pool 3 years ago: “Who would you take between Koivu and Lecavalier?” And Koivu won the pool easyly?
...that tells a lot about the hockey knowlage of the members of this forum... ... matbe you're right : Koivu is way better that Vinny Lecavalier...
Here's the catch . Gomez,Briere get offer, do math and figure how much it would cost them to play here, their agent tells them the crap Koivu had to listen to, they get offer, and say, 'Es tu malade ?' If Briere was 5 years older, he'd say, 'yes, I always wated to fulfill my boyhood dream.' Now, he looks to stay in Buffalo, then sees whichever league 'hotspots', eg, SJ,Anaheim,Detroit, need a scoring C. Gomez, tell me you believe he'd consider Montreal ? The team needs a more productive offensive player, but getting him is another issue. Simply clearing space won't help. Why would a Datsyuk or the above mentionned 2, come to what would be weaker team ? Koivu is what he is. He'll get you 65-70 points, don't blame him for what he isn't. You know why he's here ? Because when they offered him a contract and asked him to stay, he said yes. Who else did ? That's a big reason why he's here. So, why you run him down, Koivo committed to the city and the team, Lecalier could have came here, but he chose not to. Get that ? He chose not to deal with playing here. His agent will someday say it's his childhood dream, after Vinny's knees are gone, and we'll get him at 34.

Reality can be depressing ehh ?

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Old
03-11-2007, 03:57 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler View Post
Messing with UFAs by signing them and then trading them right after would definitly raise a red flag in UFAs minds. So it's a big no-no.
What did the Oilers do with Pronger?

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Old
03-11-2007, 03:59 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
What did the Oilers do with Pronger?
As per Pronger's request...

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Old
03-11-2007, 04:09 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Reality can be depressing ehh ?
Yeah, quite depressing !!

Guess what ? Brière or his agent get a call from Gainey. Gainey says he's interrested in Brière.
Brière ask : Where I will play?
-You'll be centering the second line with second line wingers, you'll also be centering second unit of powerplay.
-Yeah? Is this is a joke?
-Not at all, Koivu is my first center, I made a promess and I'll keep it.
-Okay, thanks for calling, I'll chose another team if you don't mind.
-Ok Daniel, good luck with your other team, bye-bye.
end of communication.

So you're not bored of watching that team with that core of over-evaluated players?
I admitt that there's a core of new players that are very interresting.

I don't know the exact lirics but there's a song by Bobby Dylan that says “The Times they are A Changin', ...are we at that time yet? Are we there next summer? Garage Sale, No? So we will have to wait 2-3 years I guess.
You must have more patience than me.


Last edited by HABitude: 03-11-2007 at 04:20 PM.
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Old
03-11-2007, 04:42 PM
  #60
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I guess it's a Quebec-conservative mentality. Koivu is like a golden calf nobody can touch, as like our public health and social services system and our french display regulations . (no offense!)

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Old
03-11-2007, 04:44 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by kernkraft View Post
I'm bored, it's 4 in the morning and all I can think about for some reason is what we should do this offseason to rebuild.

You're Gainey, what do you do this summer? Go as crazy as you want (try to keep it plausible), no player is safe.
Put Samsonov in the minors.

Let Niinimaa, Downey walk.

Trade Bouillon for a prospect.

Sign Bonk for $1.7M.
Sign Johnson for $1.7M.
Re-sign Aebischer for $0.9M
Sign Markov for $4.5M.
Sign Souray for $5.5M.
Trade Souray to Anaheim for a 1st round draft pick and Beauchemin.

Re-sign Ryder at $2.2M times two years.
Re-sign Komisarek at $2.0M times 3 years.
Re-sign Higgins at $1.5M for one year.
Re-sign Plekanec at $1.2M times 2 years.
Re-sign Perezhogin for $0.8M for one year.
Re-sign Gorges for $0.6M for one year.
Re-sign Milroy for $0.6M.
Re-sign Beauchemin for $1.0M

Bring over Emelin for $1.0M.

Sign R. Smyth for $5.5M.

Trade Koivu, Perezhogin, Grabovsky, Carle to TB for Richards and a 2nd pick.

Trade Kovalev and a 2nd pick to St-Louis for Jackman. Re-sign RFA Jackman for $3.0M times 3 years.

7.8 Richards
1.2 Plekanec
1.7 Bonk
0.9 Lapierre

2.2 Ryder
0.9 Kostitsyn
1.7 Johnson
1.7 Dandenault

5.5 R. Smyth
1.5 Higgins
0.9 Latendresse
1.1 Begin

1.2 combined for Murray, Milroy

4.5 Markov
3.0 Jackman
2.0 Komisarek
0.6 Streit
1.0 Emelin
1.0 Beauchemin

0.6 Gorges

2.9 Huet
0.9 Aebischer

This adds up to $43.6M and leaves us room if we underestimated a player's salary, or if we need to add a plaer at the deadline.

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Old
03-11-2007, 05:43 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by HABitude View Post
Yeah, quite depressing !!

Guess what ? Brière or his agent get a call from Gainey. Gainey says he's interrested in Brière.
Brière ask : Where I will play?
-You'll be centering the second line with second line wingers, you'll also be centering second unit of powerplay.
-Yeah? Is this is a joke?
-Not at all, Koivu is my first center, I made a promess and I'll keep it.
-Okay, thanks for calling, I'll chose another team if you don't mind.
-Ok Daniel, good luck with your other team, bye-bye.
end of communication.

So you're not bored of watching that team with that core of over-evaluated players?
I admitt that there's a core of new players that are very interresting.

I don't know the exact lirics but there's a song by Bobby Dylan that says “The Times they are A Changin', ...are we at that time yet? Are we there next summer? Garage Sale, No? So we will have to wait 2-3 years I guess.
You must have more patience than me.
You avoided my point though. Are Briere and co. interested ? Was Lecavalier ? So, you do what you can. Mike8 made a good point in another thread. You draft well, develop players and use the depth as assets to acquire the player[s] you need.

Koivu's presence doesn't chase away ufa's but you know that, it just doesn't suit your arguement. His contract might, but again, who else was willing to sign ?

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Old
03-11-2007, 05:51 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
.
Trade Souray to Anaheim for a 1st round draft pick and Beauchemin.

.
I donb't think Anaheim would want another big ticket on defense,but that's another arguement. Has there been an actual sign and trade during this CBA ?

I figure, the player has to be involved in the process,but as soon as they speak, both sides,figure, why give up a player, wait to July 1 ?

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03-11-2007, 06:06 PM
  #64
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I guess it's a Quebec-conservative mentality. Koivu is like a golden calf nobody can touch, as like our public health and social services system and our french display regulations . (no offense!)
Yes, it might be something like that.

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Old
03-11-2007, 06:26 PM
  #65
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You avoided my point though. Are Briere and co. interested ? Was Lecavalier ? So, you do what you can. Mike8 made a good point in another thread. You draft well, develop players and use the depth as assets to acquire the player[s] you need.

Koivu's presence doesn't chase away ufa's but you know that, it just doesn't suit your arguement. His contract might, but again, who else was willing to sign ?
We don't know about Brière or Drury or Gomez yet. I see your point but the goal of the DG of the habs should be to have the best team possible. It's quite easy to built a 3rd and 4th line (what Houle wasn't capable of doing). I think it's job done. Second line would be okay with Pleks, Latendresse, ufa, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn or Ryder. Create your own line, I don't mind. Next priority would be to built a real first line that can produce well and often. Habs do need a real 1rst centerman. Now, what Gainey is thinking, what is he doing to do about that? I have no idea, I don't even have a clue about what he think. He might think Koivu is perfect for the job and not wanting Brière or another center. Do you have a clue?

Last summer Shanahan had to chose between Rangers and Montréal's Habs.
Money was the same both places, both organisations were classy and well respected. Whose teamates Brendan would play with? Jagr or Koivu ? It's obvious that for his carreer, his fun playing the game, that Jagr was a better choice. I would have make the same choice if I was him.

If you want to bring first class wingers, you need first class centerman. Elite players don't want to be like Samsonov now. They want to have good stats, keep a good name around the league, it's better for their carreer, etc. Habs management hasn't been able to bring nothing interresting ufa except Kovalev, Gilmour and Samsonov in 10 years. It's Koivu's team and not many players want to be a part of it because Koivu doesn't make his wingers looks good.

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03-11-2007, 07:27 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by HABitude View Post
I don't know the exact lirics but there's a song by Bobby Dylan that says “The Times they are A Changin', ...are we at that time yet? Are we there next summer? Garage Sale, No? So we will have to wait 2-3 years I guess.
You must have more patience than me.
There's also a line in that song that goes

Come writers and critics
who prophesize with your pen...

and don't speak too soon
for the wheel's still in spin...

'Cause the loser now
Will be later to win


Basically what Dylan meant to say is that all those journalists who don't really know what's going on shouldn't be criticizing too quickly because the Habs are making moves to make a better team. Just because times are tough now doesn't mean we won't be winners down the road.

I'm pretty sure in the liner notes it said this verse was directly about the Habs and people who want to blow the team up and criticize Bob Gainey.

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03-11-2007, 07:47 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by HABitude View Post
We don't know about Brière or Drury or Gomez yet. I see your point but the goal of the DG of the habs should be to have the best team possible. It's quite easy to built a 3rd and 4th line (what Houle wasn't capable of doing). I think it's job done. Second line would be okay with Pleks, Latendresse, ufa, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn or Ryder. Create your own line, I don't mind. Next priority would be to built a real first line that can produce well and often. Habs do need a real 1rst centerman. Now, what Gainey is thinking, what is he doing to do about that? I have no idea, I don't even have a clue about what he think. He might think Koivu is perfect for the job and not wanting Brière or another center. Do you have a clue?

Last summer Shanahan had to chose between Rangers and Montréal's Habs.
Money was the same both places, both organisations were classy and well respected. Whose teamates Brendan would play with? Jagr or Koivu ? It's obvious that for his carreer, his fun playing the game, that Jagr was a better choice. I would have make the same choice if I was him.

If you want to bring first class wingers, you need first class centerman. Elite players don't want to be like Samsonov now. They want to have good stats, keep a good name around the league, it's better for their carreer, etc. Habs management hasn't been able to bring nothing interresting ufa except Kovalev, Gilmour and Samsonov in 10 years. It's Koivu's team and not many players want to be a part of it because Koivu doesn't make his wingers looks good.
If you believe that, well we disagree . Some have said that Shanahan chose NY because he liked their team better, but you choose to make it a Koivu issue.

I believe an elite type player is needed. When no one was biting in the summer of 05, they went the Kovalev route. When they signed Koivu, it can be argued that it was a sign of stability and would improve the team's position. I believe that space was wasted on bottom pairing d men, though I tried to rationalize the deals to myself. The premise of 'Koivu's team' is just something to use in an arguement. If they can attract a Briere or deal for a Gaborik, Koivu will be thinking that he'd have a better chance to win.

You seem to feel that there's a rule in place that no better player can be considered while Koivu's here. What's wrong with adding to the mix rather than changing it. IF Koivu is moved in a deal that improves the team, I'd reluctantly support it. The thing is though, you trade a guy locked in like SK, to create space, and you still might not sign anyone.

If players were clamoring to arrive in Mtl, I'd guess that Gainey might not have been as generous with Koivu. That's not the case though.

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03-11-2007, 07:52 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
There's also a line in that song that goes

Come writers and critics
who prophesize with your pen...

and don't speak too soon
for the wheel's still in spin...

'Cause the loser now
Will be later to win


Basically what Dylan meant to say is that all those journalists who don't really know what's going on shouldn't be criticizing too quickly because the Habs are making moves to make a better team. Just because times are tough now doesn't mean we won't be winners down the road.

I'm pretty sure in the liner notes it said this verse was directly about the Habs and people who want to blow the team up and criticize Bob Gainey.
Yeah, no one's gonna out Dylan us. My G10 daughter's English teacher is known as a Dylan fanatic. I haven't met the man yet, teacher interviews are coming up soon.

I started her and her friends on a quest to slip Dylan quotes or song lines by him in conversation. When she left class the other day, she said, 'good bye's too good a word, so I'll just say fare thee well' she used, 'it's either one or the other or neither of the two' He caught on eventually,after they slipped 4 or 5 by him.

Should be a good interview, we won't bother with the kid's schoolwork, we have more important matters on the agenda.

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03-12-2007, 02:31 PM
  #69
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I have a better idea. We could tie you up to Don Cherry, so that you get all the manlove you need and then push both of your xenophobic ass off the tallest building we can find.
+1

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Old
03-12-2007, 02:38 PM
  #70
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- Let Souray walk, he's going to have one of the worst contracts in the NHL next season.
- Sign Markov.
- Acquire a couple players with heart, which would likely have to be guys from Western Canada or Ontario or the US, no more French/European depth players.
- Move Aebischer for a late draft pick or a mediocre prospect.
- Move Kovalev for a 1st (you won't get a lottery pick for kovalev)
- Trade Higgins, Koivu, and picks for Brad Richards.
Aebischer is UFA anyway.

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03-12-2007, 03:21 PM
  #71
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maybe just start the next season with the same teams like whats its going to happen...

1-Have a nice stats of season buts finish 8 or 9 like the past 10 years...

2-Do nothing at the deadline!

3-Sign some trash ufa to take young prospect place because you thing young prospect can play a good overall defense game...

4-Fire the coach after 2-3 years of finish 8-9-10...

and you can reback to the number 1 of my text!

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