HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

5/7/14: 11:30am Press Conference (Holmgren to President, Hextall to GM)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-07-2014, 10:21 PM
  #351
blinds
Registered User
 
blinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,445
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
If you look around the league, there's maybe 10 or so third wheels that outproduced Hartnell:
Lucic
Hossa
Burns
Ladd
Jussi Jokinen
Backes/Oshie
MacKinnon

You could make the argument for a couple other guys when considering PPG pace and shuffling lines, but all things considered, it really isn't that bad. The real problem is the lack of secondary scoring.

EDIT: And defense/transition game. Fix both of those things, and you'll see the first line's production go up as well. It's one area where the team really misses Carle (what!? Blasphemy!)
Hartnell's 29th in LW ES scoring with a ton of guys under him playing much less games. Most of them don't get to play with guys like Giroux and Voracek. He picks up a lot of ******** points on the powerplay too, he's easily the most useless guy on the 1st unit.

I just don't think Hartnell's a top line player anymore. We really need a scorer with Giroux, I can't see Hartnell sniffing 30 again the way he's played the last 2 years.

He'd be a great 2nd line guy or even 3rd liner if we want to put him with Couts, but not really a top liner.

blinds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2014, 10:27 PM
  #352
whatthef
Failure is an Option
 
whatthef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Upper Darby
Country: United States
Posts: 4,612
vCash: 1000
This actually finally took some of the sting off of the playoffs. I'm pretty happy about this.

whatthef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-07-2014, 11:42 PM
  #353
Norm MacDonald
Registered User
 
Norm MacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinds View Post
Hartnell's 29th in LW ES scoring with a ton of guys under him playing much less games. Most of them don't get to play with guys like Giroux and Voracek. He picks up a lot of ******** points on the powerplay too, he's easily the most useless guy on the 1st unit.

I just don't think Hartnell's a top line player anymore. We really need a scorer with Giroux, I can't see Hartnell sniffing 30 again the way he's played the last 2 years.

He'd be a great 2nd line guy or even 3rd liner if we want to put him with Couts, but not really a top liner.
You're looking at it the wrong way. Of course Hartnell can't carry an offense by himself, but he's useful as a complementary player similar to Knuble. You can get a more skilled player on the left side, but you also have to get someone that makes up for Giroux and Voracek's weaknesses and won't hamper their production with turnovers and wasted puck possession. There aren't that many players out there that fit the bill. We're not getting Lucic or Sharp.

In terms of even strength production, the whole team struggled this season. Hell, even Hart-nominee Giroux had an average year even strength. Of course, the early season struggles effected those stats, but being a one line team made it easy for opponents to focus their checking on Giroux. And like I said, the transition game was pretty terrible due in large part to the lack of effective puck movement from the defense.

Having said that, I'd still like the team to go after a legit 1st line winger. However, I believe that player should be a creative playmaker who can be a catalyst for the second line.

Norm MacDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 12:18 AM
  #354
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 31,636
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
LA's minor league head coach decided to leave & look for a new job today, apparently looking for an NHL job in coaching. It will be interesting if Hextall makes a play for him here & adds him to the staff.
Mark Morris was a good coach for the Monarchs. As a fan of the team I am disappointed to see him go. I wish him the best wherever he lands. the timing is a bit curious. same day as Hextall being named GM. I don't know for sure if he can get a NHL coaching gig. If not Hextall really should talk to him about coaching the Phantoms.
He is very good with young players and getting them ready for the next level. I cant stress that enough. the guy is a teacher. He knows the game. As far as getting guys ready for the NHL in the AHL he is as good as it gets. Just take a look at the young players that have come thru Manchester and are now are in LA. Count me in being very interested in Morris coaching the Phantoms next season.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 04:23 AM
  #355
Akanon
Registered User
 
Akanon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Finland
Posts: 772
vCash: 500
If someone wants to watch the whole presser again, it's right here
TSN - Flyers News Conference

BSH posted the full transcript of it:
Ron Hextall introduced as new Flyers general manager: Here are the full transcripts

Akanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 05:19 AM
  #356
The Rage Kage
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akanon View Post
If someone wants to watch the whole presser again, it's right here
TSN - Flyers News Conference

BSH posted the full transcript of it:
Ron Hextall introduced as new Flyers general manager: Here are the full transcripts
Thanks I was looking for it

The Rage Kage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 08:20 AM
  #357
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 12,003
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinds View Post
Hartnell's 29th in LW ES scoring with a ton of guys under him playing much less games. Most of them don't get to play with guys like Giroux and Voracek. He picks up a lot of ******** points on the powerplay too, he's easily the most useless guy on the 1st unit.

I just don't think Hartnell's a top line player anymore. We really need a scorer with Giroux, I can't see Hartnell sniffing 30 again the way he's played the last 2 years.

He'd be a great 2nd line guy or even 3rd liner if we want to put him with Couts, but not really a top liner.
Curious, what list are you looking at with him 29th?

__________________
"Help was not promised, lovely girl. Only death."
JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 10:09 AM
  #358
onlylordsvsmorebp
grossmansmash
 
onlylordsvsmorebp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatthef View Post
This actually finally took some of the sting off of the playoffs. I'm pretty happy about this.
thats how i feel.timing could not be better. something to look forward to. pretty obvious this was about locking down hextall before some other team got to him. i get the feeling there must have been some serious interest...i for one would have been pissed if he left.really pumped.

watching the conference i sure get the feeling berube is firmly entrenched. homer saying hes gonna get better...i hope so.

onlylordsvsmorebp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 10:50 AM
  #359
MickeyMelchiondo
Registered User
 
MickeyMelchiondo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
If you look around the league, there's maybe 10 or so third wheels that outproduced Hartnell:
Lucic
Hossa
Burns
Ladd
Jussi Jokinen
Backes/Oshie
MacKinnon

You could make the argument for a couple other guys when considering PPG pace and shuffling lines, but all things considered, it really isn't that bad.
coincidence that the teams from those players listed above are among the best in the league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blinds View Post
Hartnell's 29th in LW ES scoring with a ton of guys under him playing much less games. Most of them don't get to play with guys like Giroux and Voracek. He picks up a lot of ******** points on the powerplay too, he's easily the most useless guy on the 1st unit.

I just don't think Hartnell's a top line player anymore. We really need a scorer with Giroux, I can't see Hartnell sniffing 30 again the way he's played the last 2 years.

He'd be a great 2nd line guy or even 3rd liner if we want to put him with Couts, but not really a top liner.
I'm wit chu.

MickeyMelchiondo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 02:08 PM
  #360
sharpeye97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
You're looking at it the wrong way. Of course Hartnell can't carry an offense by himself, but he's useful as a complementary player similar to Knuble. You can get a more skilled player on the left side, but you also have to get someone that makes up for Giroux and Voracek's weaknesses and won't hamper their production with turnovers and wasted puck possession. There aren't that many players out there that fit the bill. We're not getting Lucic or Sharp.

In terms of even strength production, the whole team struggled this season. Hell, even Hart-nominee Giroux had an average year even strength. Of course, the early season struggles effected those stats, but being a one line team made it easy for opponents to focus their checking on Giroux. And like I said, the transition game was pretty terrible due in large part to the lack of effective puck movement from the defense.

Having said that, I'd still like the team to go after a legit 1st line winger. However, I believe that player should be a creative playmaker who can be a catalyst for the second line.
This is all pretty simple with Hartnell, everyone loves the guy but HATES the contract.

I'd like to see the speed of Raymond on that 3rd line. And either Michalek or Moulson on the 1st.

sharpeye97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 02:13 PM
  #361
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 7,938
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
Curious, what list are you looking at with him 29th?
He was actually 23rd.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...iewName=points

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 02:15 PM
  #362
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,494
vCash: 500
Yikes....I know Panotch wrote this but my comments are mostly about the actual quotes from Hextall and Holmgren.

You wonder what Hextall was really thinking in his brain when he came here and saw the situation with the farm team. He was probably like WTF garbage is this.

Also, given Hextall's philosophy he probably would not have gone after Pronger in the first place...

Finally, it's nice to see Holmgren admit what others have been saying about getting a franchise D man....


Quote:
The lack of defensive prospects in the eight years he was GM falls on Paul Holmgren. Things likely would have been much different had Pronger played through his contract instead of being forced onto long-term injury indefinitely with post-concussion syndrome.

Had Pronger played, there would be far less attention to the defense.

Holmgren admits that deal still sticks with him.

“We've talked about that, we talked about it [Tuesday],” Holmgren said. “ Not the 'what if,' but we gave up a lot to get Chris. In fact, I asked Ron. He was in Los Angeles when we made that trade. I said, 'What'd you think of that trade?'

“'Was it steep?' he said, 'Yeah, but that's the only way you were going to get him.' Then we talked about how nice it would've been to have him this year ... you try not to dwell on those things but every once and a while they come up.”
“
Quote:
Probably the only way you're going to get that guy [impact defenseman] is to draft for him,” Holmgren said. “Who knows, maybe we have him. Maybe Sam Morin or Robert Hagg, or Gostisbehere. Maybe he's going to be in this draft. Who knows?”

The Flyers are very shallow in their overall organizational chart in terms of draft picks playing for them right now with the Phantoms. Again, it’s unacceptable.

Holmgren had a conversation with Hextall this season during an AHL game.

“I can remember watching a Phantoms game with him earlier in the year and he said, 'How many draft picks do we have playing in this game?’” Holmgren recalled.

“Honest question, right? I think I said, 'Four?' [Nick] Cousins was there and we were counting free-agent guys that we brought in, not young guys or older guys that we brought in from other organizations.

“I think we had four or five. He just mentioned that, and the team that we were playing against that night had 12. So we've got to get better at that. He mentioned it today that we have to keep our draft picks and we've got to do a better job in that regard and he's right, we do.”
http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...-huge-priority

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 02:16 PM
  #363
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
 
FlyersFan61290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
At ESP he was 29th.

FlyersFan61290 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 02:21 PM
  #364
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 12,003
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
At ESP he was 29th.
Why do people want Matt Moulson if this is their criticism of Hartnell?

JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 02:23 PM
  #365
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
 
FlyersFan61290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
Yikes....I know Panotch wrote this but my comments are mostly about the actual quotes from Hextall and Holmgren.

You wonder what Hextall was really thinking in his brain when he came here and saw the situation with the farm team. He was probably like WTF garbage is this.

Also, given Hextall's philosophy he probably would not have gone after Pronger in the first place...

Finally, it's nice to see Holmgren admit what others have been saying about getting a franchise D man....




“http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...-huge-priority
At least some if not all of Laughton, Stolarz, Hagg, Ghost and Leier will be there next season. Homer was taking the team in the right direction. I actually think he's done a good job of starting the re-stocking process. It seems like Hextall is the man to continue and build off of that so I think Hextall is coming in at a good time.

FlyersFan61290 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 02:31 PM
  #366
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
 
FlyersFan61290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
Why do people want Matt Moulson if this is their criticism of Hartnell?
Hartnell's three most common ES linemates were G, Voracek (our two best forwards) and Streit (finished 10th among D-men in ES scoring and had 44 points overall).

Moulson's played a lot with Tavares and had some really good years. I think they're saying his shot and the fact that he's put up impressive numbers with a star player in the recent past makes him a good fit for Giroux.

Edit: Since the 11-12 season Hartnell has averaged ~28 g and ~56 points while playing next to G (that's when they became regular line mates). In that same span Moulson has avg'd ~33 goals and 71pts per 82 while playing next to Tavares. So he has been the better producer overall but in terms of ES, ~62 percent of Moulson's total points came at ES and ~53 percent of his goals came at ES compared to Hartnell's ~63 percent and ~55 percent respectively. So actually Hartnell produces more (relatively speaking) at ES but Moulson is the better point producer overall.

**Note that Hartnell's numbers are based on a 192 game sample size while Moulson's are based on a 140 game sample size**


Last edited by FlyersFan61290: 05-08-2014 at 03:00 PM.
FlyersFan61290 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 02:35 PM
  #367
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
At least some if not all of Laughton, Stolarz, Hagg, Ghost and Leier will be there next season. Homer was taking the team in the right direction. I actually think he's done a good job of starting the re-stocking process. It seems like Hextall is the man to continue and build off of that so I think Hextall is coming in at a good time.
Yeah...like I said...he had his epiphany a couple of seasons ago and the last two drafts they tried to make it count and hopefully it will. But the main point here again is that he was an inconsistent GM who was always spinning his wheels trying to fix a lot of mistakes. He was finally gaining some traction but it was time to make a change and have a guy like Hextall offer up some fresher ideas although again the idea of developing the youth and focusing on the draft was not alien to Holmgren when he first became GM.....for a host of reasons which included impatience not helped by the owner he veered off that initial plan.

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 03:36 PM
  #368
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,846
vCash: 500
Add Ron Hextall as the next Flyers GM to get blacklisted by other NHL GM's for his comments on the Oilers yesterday according to HFBoards logic.

LegionOfDoom91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 04:11 PM
  #369
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 38,255
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
Yeah...like I said...he had his epiphany a couple of seasons ago and the last two drafts they tried to make it count and hopefully it will. But the main point here again is that he was an inconsistent GM who was always spinning his wheels trying to fix a lot of mistakes. He was finally gaining some traction but it was time to make a change and have a guy like Hextall offer up some fresher ideas although again the idea of developing the youth and focusing on the draft was not alien to Holmgren when he first became GM.....for a host of reasons which included impatience not helped by the owner he veered off that initial plan.

Yeah, ignoring the players who were traded, or why they were traded, if you look at the situation the team was in, Homer was in a spot where he had no choice but to ship significant pieces out and downgrade the team in general just to field a full roster. For a GM, being in that position where you have to do something drastic, whether you want to or not, has to be galling, regardless of who gets sent out in the end. These GMs are generally, I think, guys who would prefer to be in control of their team's destinies...the strategies in place before 2011 left the team in a place where that wasn't an option and they had to do something, regardless of any other suspected issues...something had to happen. The shock of the situation seems to have spurred an immediate re-think of their methods.

Homer and the org clearly identified the problems and have corrected them, following a tenable path ever since. I believe the MacDonald trade and signing to be the last gasp of the desperate strait the team was in 3 years ago with an empty prospect pool; the prospects acquired weren't/aren't yet ready to step in, yet something had to be tried.

It will be interesting to see how the new philosophy unfolds under new guidance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Add Ron Hextall as the next Flyers GM to get blacklisted by other NHL GM's for his comments on the Oilers yesterday according to HFBoards logic.
What's neat about that is, if the Oilers do actually refuse to deal with the Flyers because of hurt pride and turn down opportunities that could potentially help them, they're just proving Hextall and many others right.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 04:28 PM
  #370
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 12,003
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Hartnell's three most common ES linemates were G, Voracek (our two best forwards) and Streit (finished 10th among D-men in ES scoring and had 44 points overall).

Moulson's played a lot with Tavares and had some really good years. I think they're saying his shot and the fact that he's put up impressive numbers with a star player in the recent past makes him a good fit for Giroux.

Edit: Since the 11-12 season Hartnell has averaged ~28 g and ~56 points while playing next to G (that's when they became regular line mates). In that same span Moulson has avg'd ~33 goals and 71pts per 82 while playing next to Tavares. So he has been the better producer overall but in terms of ES, ~62 percent of Moulson's total points came at ES and ~53 percent of his goals came at ES compared to Hartnell's ~63 percent and ~55 percent respectively. So actually Hartnell produces more (relatively speaking) at ES but Moulson is the better point producer overall.

**Note that Hartnell's numbers are based on a 192 game sample size while Moulson's are based on a 140 game sample size**
I'd be interested in G/60 for those two, and seeing how their general ice time at ES and overall compare. I'd think that Moulson, with Tavares, was getting a few minutes more per game than Hartnell. That's just my assumption, though.

JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 05:28 PM
  #371
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
 
FlyersFan61290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
I'd be interested in G/60 for those two, and seeing how their general ice time at ES and overall compare. I'd think that Moulson, with Tavares, was getting a few minutes more per game than Hartnell. That's just my assumption, though.
G/60

Moulson: 1.02 (13-14), 1.00 (12-13), 1.37 (11-12)

Hartnell: 0.91 (13-14), 0.95 (12-13), 1.52 (11-12)

P/60

Moulson: 2.27 (13-14), 2.93 (12-13), 2.62 (11-12)

Hartnell: 2.37 (13-14), 1.30 (12-13), 2.76 (11-12)

You have to take into account though that Moulson played the majority of his games this season with Buffalo and only 11 with the Islanders and Tavares. It's also important to note that Giroux is the superior point producer when compared to Tavares. And lastly that Hartnell had the injury which really effected him.

In terms of ES time, Moulson avg'd 1.5 min per game more then Hartnell in 11-12, almost 3 more in 12-13 and about 1.5 min more this season. He definitely get more playing time overall too.


Last edited by FlyersFan61290: 05-08-2014 at 05:36 PM.
FlyersFan61290 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 05:47 PM
  #372
Striiker
Orange and Black
 
Striiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,312
vCash: 500
I'm loving how incredibly ******** and defensive the Edmonton fans are getting on the main boards. Hextall got their jimmies rustled.

Striiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 06:00 PM
  #373
MP92
Ginger Jesus
 
MP92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
I'm loving how incredibly ******** and defensive the Edmonton fans are getting on the main boards. Hextall got their jimmies rustled.
I've taken away one thing from that thread. Edm fans are very sensitive and delusional.

MP92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 06:08 PM
  #374
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,846
vCash: 500
Honestly outside of maybe a few Oilers fans it's mostly fans of other teams that are sensitive about it. If you look at their board most of them there thought it was funny & right on the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
What's neat about that is, if the Oilers do actually refuse to deal with the Flyers because of hurt pride and turn down opportunities that could potentially help them, they're just proving Hextall and many others right.
Yeah these things never really go to plan, Poile was so mad at Homer for the Weber OS that he had him on his selection comittee for this past Olympics.

LegionOfDoom91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2014, 06:11 PM
  #375
The Couturier Effect
Registered User
 
The Couturier Effect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 3,853
vCash: 500
I don't get why they're so upset...it's not like their "strategy" is working. They haven't shown any improvement at all over the past 4 or 5 years. Hextall was dead on.

The Couturier Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.