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I hate giving the Rangers management any credit

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Old
03-13-2007, 05:59 AM
  #1
pld459666
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I hate giving the Rangers management any credit

but when it's due I have to step up and do so since I like to bash them so much I think I would lose credibility as a poster if I didn't acknowledge this.

The Rangers team today, heavy European flavor on the top line, placing a heavy emphasis on the east west game as opposed to the north south game (which I very much prefer). Nylander may not be resigned, Straka has been and will be here next year, Jagr still has one year left at the very least 2 years if the option year has been vested.

If we take a look at what our system is, it's in direct contrast with this. all of our top prospects save Korpiedo and Immonen (and I think Immonen's time has passed) are all of the NA variety. The centers in Dubinsky and now Pyatt are NA style players, the Wingers in Callahan, Bourret, Dawes, Byers, Kozak, Helminen, Moore and Jessiman are also all more of the north south players that should be feeding the parent club. Even the defenceman are of the north south type players. Martin Richter would be the lone consideration to play a more east west game but he's played well in the Pack's system and has seemed to fit in.

I'm not saying that there's no place on the team for the e/w guys, but that teams in the NHL win playing a more N/S oriented game and I think, hope that the influx of these players start over the summer and at the beginning of next year because some of those guys you see on the hartford team now will not be there next year with the influx of Pyatt, Staal, Sauer, Dupont.

Now after giving Sather and his staff some credit I have to throw in this caveat in that all that drafting and stocking the system with these players will mean little to nothing at all if the players that we have do not start showing up in NY. You can have the greatest farm team in the world, but it will mean little if you do not allow them to skate on the big surface (warts and all) to show that they belong.

just an observation, now I'm off to work (and a little late after posting my thoughts) damn.

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03-13-2007, 06:30 AM
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Ola
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PLD- I agree with you on the east-west thing, or atleast that we lack north-south players.

Though, like always its a balance thing. It were pretty obvious for a while that Ottawa were far to heavy on north-south players early in the season for example, and have since added Comrie& Saprykin to help out Alfredsson.

We could defenitly add some quality to our north-south players. We don't really have a Langenbrunner type of player for example.

Do I don't really understand why you single out Korpikoski, and not Dawes and Callahan for example? And stay at home D Richter, and not Marvin Degon?

I will always go back to the Red Wings and use them as a example of a pretty perfect team. A puckmoving D, some really smart centers, and a ton of hardworking wingers.

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03-13-2007, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
We could defenitly add some quality to our north-south players. We don't really have a Langenbrunner type of player for example.
Actually, I think that Callahan could definitely become a Langenbrunner-esque player and I never thought of that comparison until you mentioned both players in one post. I think that that's a great comparison to his future game at the pro level.

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03-13-2007, 09:09 AM
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Larry Melnyk
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Although some will disagree because of IMMO, I think the Ranger organization should also get credit for the way they developed the kids this year...Patience, development, keeping the kids at the right place, and solid coaching at the AHL level, has gone a long way in preparing these kids to be NHL contributors late this year (as we have seen) but, moe likely, next year

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03-13-2007, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
but when it's due I have to step up and do so since I like to bash them so much I think I would lose credibility as a poster if I didn't acknowledge this.

The Rangers team today, heavy European flavor on the top line, placing a heavy emphasis on the east west game as opposed to the north south game (which I very much prefer). Nylander may not be resigned, Straka has been and will be here next year, Jagr still has one year left at the very least 2 years if the option year has been vested.

If we take a look at what our system is, it's in direct contrast with this. all of our top prospects save Korpiedo and Immonen (and I think Immonen's time has passed) are all of the NA variety. The centers in Dubinsky and now Pyatt are NA style players, the Wingers in Callahan, Bourret, Dawes, Byers, Kozak, Helminen, Moore and Jessiman are also all more of the north south players that should be feeding the parent club. Even the defenceman are of the north south type players. Martin Richter would be the lone consideration to play a more east west game but he's played well in the Pack's system and has seemed to fit in.

I'm not saying that there's no place on the team for the e/w guys, but that teams in the NHL win playing a more N/S oriented game and I think, hope that the influx of these players start over the summer and at the beginning of next year because some of those guys you see on the hartford team now will not be there next year with the influx of Pyatt, Staal, Sauer, Dupont.

Now after giving Sather and his staff some credit I have to throw in this caveat in that all that drafting and stocking the system with these players will mean little to nothing at all if the players that we have do not start showing up in NY. You can have the greatest farm team in the world, but it will mean little if you do not allow them to skate on the big surface (warts and all) to show that they belong.

just an observation, now I'm off to work (and a little late after posting my thoughts) damn.
Let's also not overlook getting younger, tougher and better with the trades for Mara and Avery.

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03-13-2007, 09:18 AM
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LM..

I'm not sure what to think of the 'development' of kids. Lately it's come because of necessity of injuries, which is fine, and yes, you do not want to rush, but earlier in the season, both Dawes and Callahan looked as though they deserved some more ice time. I won't get into Immonen, since that's just a bizarre example that I don't understand. Also, the handling of Prucha this season was a bit curious, especially during a period that saw Shanny stop scoring, especially on the PP, and Prucha begnning to play better (a case where Renney may've been too patient). His patience with Hossa may've paid off though, that's something for which he should be commended. On the rest of the youth, we'll just have to wait and see next season I guess.

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03-13-2007, 09:20 AM
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Evgeny Oliker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Although some will disagree because of IMMO, I think the Ranger organization should also get credit for the way they developed the kids this year...Patience, development, keeping the kids at the right place, and solid coaching at the AHL level, has gone a long way in preparing these kids to be NHL contributors late this year (as we have seen) but, moe likely, next year
I would agree with that actually!

We all wanted to see the Rangers let the kids play at the beginning of the season. When they didnt, we assumed it was because the Rangers management did not want to go with youth...but with the old farts.

We were all wrong guys.

What happened is that management just wanted to make sure that the kids in the AHL were ready for the NHL first. That is what the Devils do as well. If you havent noticed, when the Devils recall ANYONE from the AHL, that player is ALWAYS ready for the NHL, always responsible defensively, and does not look out of place.

That is what the Rangers did. When we recalled Dubinsky recently, he did not look out of place and was responsible on D. Same for Girardi, same for Immonen.

The Rangers are staying patient with their youth and giving them a chance in the NHL as soon as they are ready. It is smart prospect management. Eventually, it will pay great dividents!

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03-13-2007, 09:40 AM
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Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I'm not sure what to think of the 'development' of kids. Lately it's come because of necessity of injuries, which is fine, and yes, you do not want to rush, but earlier in the season, both Dawes and Callahan looked as though they deserved some more ice time. I won't get into Immonen, since that's just a bizarre example that I don't understand. Also, the handling of Prucha this season was a bit curious, especially during a period that saw Shanny stop scoring, especially on the PP, and Prucha begnning to play better (a case where Renney may've been too patient). His patience with Hossa may've paid off though, that's something for which he should be commended. On the rest of the youth, we'll just have to wait and see next season I guess.
What's been a necessity because of injuries, is the call ups of a guy like Dubinsky...The call ups mean nothing to me as it pertains to development..I would have been perfectly fine with all the kids staying down in Hartford where they have developed nicely and patiently all season long as borne out by the individual and team play in Hartford over the last 2/3rds of the season.....They haven't done anything flashy, but Dubinsky and Girardi do not look out of place up in NY and reflects how good of a job was done in getting them ready to contribute on the NHL level...

Now, I'm sure the same would be true about Callahan and Dawes, two players that are also playing strongly right now (all season for Callahan)..maybe it would have been nice to see more of them in NY this year, but I couldn't really care less..I care more about the complete player that has developed in Hartford and we'll be seeing in NY next year..

As for Prucha, maybe a little mis-mangement, but Prucha was also his own worst enemy at times with poor all around play.so some of his "demotion" were at times earned....As for IMMO, from what I've seen of his type of play, I have no problem with the Rangers assessment-----but, you're right, that's a whole nother thread!

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03-13-2007, 09:41 AM
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Ola

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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
PLD- I agree with you on the east-west thing, or atleast that we lack north-south players.

Though, like always its a balance thing. It were pretty obvious for a while that Ottawa were far to heavy on north-south players early in the season for example, and have since added Comrie& Saprykin to help out Alfredsson.

We could defenitly add some quality to our north-south players. We don't really have a Langenbrunner type of player for example.

Do I don't really understand why you single out Korpikoski, and not Dawes and Callahan for example? And stay at home D Richter, and not Marvin Degon?

I will always go back to the Red Wings and use them as a example of a pretty perfect team. A puckmoving D, some really smart centers, and a ton of hardworking wingers.

I referred to Immonen and Korpiedo as well as Richter and Baranka simply because of the style used by alot of European clubs (not all, but alot) due to the larger ice surfaces that they grow up learning the game on.

An international sized rink will by nature produce more east/west style players due to the fact that the size of the rink allows them, actually encourages them to skate more. It's a more open style that is not conducive to the north/south style. I think that that may have had a hand in Lauri's slow developement earlier in the year. He's played better in the 2nd half and I think it may have to do with getting used to the NA style.

Wasn't looking to knock the players as I think that they each have something to contribute (moreso with Lauri and Ivan) than Immonen (think hes a solid fill in but not much more) and Richter (at 29 years old, not going to get any better)

Hope that better explains why I singled those guys out.

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03-13-2007, 09:58 AM
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I think Pock and Girardi..

were thrusted into duty because of injuries too. Girardi and Dubinsky being the only two current guys on this roster who played in Hartford this season, aside from the vet, Isbister (and JOrt's rehab stint).

On Cally - I don't think he's improved at all this season - he looks the same now as he did earlier in the season - he's kind of plateuaed in the AHL, much like I think Staal may've in the OHL.

Dawes looks the same now as he did last season. Thought maybe before they went and got Dupuis that either should've been given a look. Also wouldn't miind seeing Cally in there instead of Isbister, but I guess HFD needs Cally more since Isbister wasn't contributing too much in HFD.

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03-13-2007, 10:04 AM
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Ola
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Actually, I think that Callahan could definitely become a Langenbrunner-esque player and I never thought of that comparison until you mentioned both players in one post. I think that that's a great comparison to his future game at the pro level.
That would be awsome. They play the same style. Though while Langenbrunner aren't that big, he is pretty strong both along the boards and infront of the net. Callahan bounces around more then Langenbrunner. Ryan can defenitly add some more weight, but its especially thoose very solid bodys around the boards that I think we miss. Shanny have helped out allot in this aspects. Hossa are really strong there too.

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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I referred to Immonen and Korpiedo as well as Richter and Baranka simply because of the style used by alot of European clubs (not all, but alot) due to the larger ice surfaces that they grow up learning the game on.

An international sized rink will by nature produce more east/west style players due to the fact that the size of the rink allows them, actually encourages them to skate more. It's a more open style that is not conducive to the north/south style. I think that that may have had a hand in Lauri's slow developement earlier in the year. He's played better in the 2nd half and I think it may have to do with getting used to the NA style.

Wasn't looking to knock the players as I think that they each have something to contribute (moreso with Lauri and Ivan) than Immonen (think hes a solid fill in but not much more) and Richter (at 29 years old, not going to get any better)

Hope that better explains why I singled those guys out.
Good post, and you defenitly have a point, though I especially think that Korpikoski might turn into reckless forechecker like Prucha, but with 2 more additional inches and around 30 additional lbs.

The main focus in HFD have been his offensive game, no doubt, and I don't have a problem with that, but this kid can also hit allot, his hitting game in the SM-liiga were defenitly PF materia. At the same time, when I think about it, he haven't hit as much in the AHL. And he also pretty much always takes the puck to the net. He is defenitly atleast much more "Finnish" in that aspect compared to a Czech or a Russian for example.

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03-13-2007, 10:07 AM
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Ola
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
were thrusted into duty because of injuries too. Girardi and Dubinsky being the only two current guys on this roster who played in Hartford this season, aside from the vet, Isbister (and JOrt's rehab stint).
You are right, but at the same time, a team is bound to get injurys. You can defenitly count on them so to speak.

If we enters a season with only 20 veteran skaters, kind of like we did, we can be sure that allot of kids will get a chance.

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03-13-2007, 10:13 AM
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I Am Chariot
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It's kind of unclear how the Rangers management works. Satheroney, Maloneyslats or whatever FrankenGM works for you...

Since the Cap. They have been EXCELLENT imo. Great Bang for the buck. Smart moves that show patience and anything but panic.

I thought they paid a little high for Matty Cullen at the time, but I'm loving his play right now. When all are healthy and he settles into the third line and STILL puts up this effort we've seen, we're really going to LOVE IT

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03-13-2007, 10:17 AM
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Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
were thrusted into duty because of injuries too. Girardi and Dubinsky being the only two current guys on this roster who played in Hartford this season, aside from the vet, Isbister (and JOrt's rehab stint).

On Cally - I don't think he's improved at all this season - he looks the same now as he did earlier in the season - he's kind of plateuaed in the AHL, much like I think Staal may've in the OHL.

Dawes looks the same now as he did last season. Thought maybe before they went and got Dupuis that either should've been given a look. Also wouldn't miind seeing Cally in there instead of Isbister, but I guess HFD needs Cally more since Isbister wasn't contributing too much in HFD.
Of course they were..And when they were recalled, they were ready. And that is what a farm is for...

I think the point on Callahan is that this is a kid in his first professional season..Notalways does scoring in Juniors translate to consistent scoring in the AHL...Callahan needed time in the AHL o prove that, and he has..And also that he can play in any type of situation (PP, ES, PK, defensive, offensive) at the AHL level consisently..And at the same time developing as a player and as a person..And to say, Callahan has plateued may be ignoring the knowledge and experience of the game he is gaining by playing 20 mins a night..All that being said, I agree he is ready to take the next step to see if he can do this at the NHL level but also thing this season in hartford was necessar and beneficial..

I think where we disagree is that though I agree I wouldn't mind seeing kids like Callahan, Dawes recalled, I think they are only becoming more complete players down in the AHL and not sure if either provided a better option then what we have used...As an example, I think Isbister RIGHT NOW is a much better fit then a Callahan..

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