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Stay or Go: Lecavalier

View Poll Results: Stay or Go: Lecavalier
Stay 29 20.00%
Go 116 80.00%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-02-2014, 10:25 PM
  #101
blinds
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
He had a non-displaced fracture in his lower back in December. It's non-treatable medically so there was no surgery, the only solution is rest.
Thanks for clearing that up. For whoever is wondering, he did come back early from it: "Vincent Lecavalier (non-displaced fracture in his lower back) returned to the Flyers' lineup on Saturday, two weeks ahead of schedule."

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05-03-2014, 06:36 AM
  #102
Appleyard
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Arguably had the easiest minutes of any forward on the team:

Rel QoC: 0.111, Ozone starts: 58.2%

(B. Schenn and Rinaldo are the only other that have a claim)

Yet he had the 2nd worst Corsi on the team amongst forwards at -8.58 Corsi On. (After Hall, who had some of the hardest zone starts in the NHL at 27.7%)

His most common linemates were at -4.56 (Schenn) and -0.45 (Simmonds)

And finished in the Ozone 50% of the time... less that Schenn and Simmonds as well, who started in the Ozone less that him!

He also had the 3rd least P/60 at 5v5 of the regular forwards... Rinaldo and Hall were the only ones below him.

Basically he was put in the easiest minutes and given every chance to succeed...

Yet he was a possession vacuum, dragged down his linemates when he played with them, was defensively incompetent and has somehow lost the ability to win faceoffs as well.

I know he was injured and actually played ok at the start of the year before that... and I am willing to give him until next years trade deadline to return to the form he was in in Tampa, the eye test, stats and advanced stats showed he was a pretty good 60 point top 6 forward in Tampa who faced middling minutes and had decent possession. If at ~christmas next year he is still playing lackadaisical, slow, ineffective hockey try and move him.

He was the 2nd worst fwd on the team in the regular season...

and the worst in the Playoffs.... jeez his figures were awful, and by eye he was absurdly bad as well. He contributed heavily to them going out in the first round.

His incompetence meant that the 3rd line had to play stupid minutes (all over 4 Rel QoC and QoC... and all below 40% zone starts, with Read and Couturier hovering at 25%...) so had very little opportunity to do anything but try and contain the opposition in ridiculous minutes, and also rendered the 2nd line ineffective even though they were facing absurdly easy competition... and once again Schenn and Simmonds had far better numbers in every category than him. So each time they were not on the ice with Vinny they produced at a better rate.

This basically meant that the 1st line was the only threat in the playoffs.

-12 Corsi Rel when Schenn and Simmer had positive Corsi rel is baffling. Vinny also had 60% Ozone starts and those two ~50%...

Considering he played with them 50% of the postseason and 50% of the regular season their figures would actually be pretty good in the time they spent without him! Positive for sure in the post season and likely positive in reg as well. (Simmer definitely, Schenn likely)

Everyones corsi, P/60 5v5 and +/- were negatively affected when they played with him basically.

If the Flyers had an average 2nd line centre instead of Vinny in the 1st round vs the Rags I imagine they go through to the 2nd round on reflection.

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Old
05-03-2014, 11:02 AM
  #103
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I think you're my favorite poster Appleyard.

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Old
05-03-2014, 11:16 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
If at ~christmas next year he is still playing lackadaisical, slow, ineffective hockey try and move him.
First, thanks for posting Appleyard. Second, I fear if the Flyers wait that long, it may be too late and he would be unmovable. I don't think it's worth even risking it in hopes that he could regain some old magic. The risk outweighs that by a long shot. Plus, I don't know if he'd waive mid-season anyway. He has a family and that may be a factor.

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05-03-2014, 11:34 AM
  #105
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Good write up as usual. I just wish Schenn played the entire series at C over Vinny instead of just the final 2 games or so. Schenn wasn't great in the PO but he was substantially better then Vinny (Schenn had 3pts in the 7 games while playing 14min/g).

In fact I wish Vinny and Rinaldo didn't play at all. They just took minutes away from the other guys.

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05-08-2014, 03:14 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Dirty but Good View Post
I think he should stay since what they would get in return wouldn't be worth it.
When would it be worth it? What is he worth in your mind? In the end it would be as if they paid for a draft pick. Hexy will try everything to move him. I'd move him for a mid round pick and sign a reliable 4th liner at 4th liner price.

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05-08-2014, 09:13 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by sharpeye97 View Post
When would it be worth it? What is he worth in your mind? In the end it would be as if they paid for a draft pick. Hexy will try everything to move him. I'd move him for a mid round pick and sign a reliable 4th liner at 4th liner price.
If anyone would take Vinny's contract, without the Flyers having to eat some of the cap space or the Flyers adding a draft pick, it will be worth it. I don't know if there will be takers, but that's the subject of all Hexy's 'getting to know you' calls around the league.

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Old
05-08-2014, 11:25 PM
  #108
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id like him to go, but i just don't see management giving up on him in one season. theylle give him until the trade deadline next season to get his stuff together, if not CYA

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05-09-2014, 01:30 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by sharpeye97 View Post
When would it be worth it? What is he worth in your mind? In the end it would be as if they paid for a draft pick. Hexy will try everything to move him. I'd move him for a mid round pick and sign a reliable 4th liner at 4th liner price.
There is a bigger picture, a context that needs to be considered as well.
Does Laughton stay with the Phantoms? What's Hextall's opinion about Brayden Schenn and might he be moved?

And even more important: does Vinny want out? Unless Lecavalier has become some sort of cancer there is no immediate need to move him asap. Even if Timonen and his 6M cap hit is back for another season they are not in any serious trouble cap-wise....

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05-09-2014, 06:30 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
There is a bigger picture, a context that needs to be considered as well.
Does Laughton stay with the Phantoms? What's Hextall's opinion about Brayden Schenn and might he be moved?

And even more important: does Vinny want out? Unless Lecavalier has become some sort of cancer there is no immediate need to move him asap. Even if Timonen and his 6M cap hit is back for another season they are not in any serious trouble cap-wise....
If Berube (and/or Hextall) sit down with Vinny and say 'look, you know how this season went. We just don't see it changing,' Vinny will want out. He's not a fourth liner, and I'm sure deep down inside, he was unhappy with how the year went on a number of levels. Gagne said it a few years ago: if a team wants to trade you, they will trade you.

Frankly, even if Lavy was still the coach, Lecavalier doesn't fit on this team. It was a bad signing this summer for all the reasons people have said, and it was predicated on B Schenn/Vinny playing wing, which I think most people could've seen was not a good idea. I feel badly for the guy. Hopefully, they can part on amicable terms and he'll rebound somewhere else.

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05-09-2014, 07:44 AM
  #111
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05-09-2014, 11:09 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Vinny ... What website has that search capability?

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Old
05-09-2014, 11:33 AM
  #113
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Unsure at the moment on what I want with VL. It all depends on what is available in trade or UFA/RFA deals. He is likely not going to live up to his contract, given the injury he sustained which appears to have really hurt him, but he still might be able to be effective. I would trade him just to get rid of him. If someone offers something of value (nothing crazy, but something that the team could use), I'm fine trading him. Or if they trade him to make room for a worthwhile signing, I'm also fine trading him. I'm not fine trading him so Ben Holmstrom can be brought up or so we can get a guy that plays the same game. Although, if we get something in return, get a guy that will produce in the same way, I suppose it wouldn't be too bad.

In conclusion...whatever.

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Old
05-09-2014, 01:10 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Unsure at the moment on what I want with VL. It all depends on what is available in trade or UFA/RFA deals. He is likely not going to live up to his contract, given the injury he sustained which appears to have really hurt him, but he still might be able to be effective. I would trade him just to get rid of him. If someone offers something of value (nothing crazy, but something that the team could use), I'm fine trading him. Or if they trade him to make room for a worthwhile signing, I'm also fine trading him. I'm not fine trading him so Ben Holmstrom can be brought up or so we can get a guy that plays the same game. Although, if we get something in return, get a guy that will produce in the same way, I suppose it wouldn't be too bad.

In conclusion...whatever.
A lot depends on what Hexy decides to do with Brayden Schenn. The only reason to deal him is in a package for a top pairing guy or young Dman with top pairing potential (Gardiner, Gormley for example) or for the draft pick that would yield Ekblad or Haydn Fleury, if our scouts are high on one of them.

If we're keeping BSchenn, Vinny must go. Far and fast and with little fuss. Tell him he stinks at LW, we don't need an RW, so it's 4C or bust. He'll go happily. There are lots of guys we could add from inside the org who could play 4C, if not Laughton yet, then Hall, or sign a UFA, there are always guys like Dominic Moore or Dave Steckel kicking around in late July....

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05-09-2014, 01:20 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
A lot depends on what Hexy decides to do with Brayden Schenn. The only reason to deal him is in a package for a top pairing guy or young Dman with top pairing potential (Gardiner, Gormley for example) or for the draft pick that would yield Ekblad or Haydn Fleury, if our scouts are high on one of them.

If we're keeping BSchenn, Vinny must go. Far and fast and with little fuss. Tell him he stinks at LW, we don't need an RW, so it's 4C or bust. He'll go happily. There are lots of guys we could add from inside the org who could play 4C, if not Laughton yet, then Hall, or sign a UFA, there are always guys like Dominic Moore or Dave Steckel kicking around in late July....
Sounds about right, unless they think Schenn can convert to wing which doesn't seem likely.

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Old
05-09-2014, 05:02 PM
  #116
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Sounds about right, unless they think Schenn can convert to wing which doesn't seem likely.
I am intrigued by the thought of Schenn with Giroux and Voracek. Put Couturier with Read and Hartnell as the second line, then Lecavalier with Simmonds and Akeson/Raffl/other third. This spreads out the scoring ability and two-way play.

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