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Old
05-10-2014, 12:17 AM
  #51
Rapala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
If management decides to go with the rookies instead, we likely won't be making the playoffs, especially if Gorges or Emelin gets injured, we might be picking top 5.
I totally disagree.
Both Tinordi and Beaulieu were on that perfectly acceptable learning curve of two steps forward and one step back. People always look at Oh they may lose us a game here and there but never Hey they may win us a game here and there. Honestly we could have been playing them both since mid season and still made the playoffs. The East isn't going to suddenly turn into the West next year either.

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05-10-2014, 12:18 AM
  #52
Mahleezer
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And let's not forget, Markov if the current Habs Ironman... knee problems?? What knee problems??

lol

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Old
05-10-2014, 12:28 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Why keep Murray? He isn't improving with age. Isn't it time to play Beaulieu or Tinordi regularly? The Bruins have used three or four youthful Dmen. And where does the suggestion to use Galchenyuk on the point come from? His D (+/-) as a forward hasn't been great. I wouldn't trust him.
Hamilton is 20 but a 9th overall.
Krug is 23.
Bart is 25 (190th pick).
Miller is 26.

Beaulieu is 21.
Tinordi is 22.
Pateryn is 23.

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Old
05-10-2014, 12:33 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapala View Post
I have no issues with the money.
For me it's the left handedness of the players we need to develop.
Emelin needs to play on the left Tin Man, Bollie, we still have this critical imbalance that needs to GTFO.
I don't see why we need to keep both Josh and Markov going forward. If the plan is to build a Cup winning team we'd better start using the players who are going to win it for us don't you think.
Gorges brings solid leadership and is a veteran

But I agree we should only keep 1 of them, Markov is great in the season but if we want to build a stanley cup team we need more energy and strength.

Plus we have to give Tinordi and Beaulieu their chances at some point, you know at least they can only get better.

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05-10-2014, 12:34 AM
  #55
Rapala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Krug is 23.
Bart is 25.
Miller is 26.

Beaulieu is 21.
Tinordi is 22.
Pateryn is 23.
All three of our Kids are more talented than those three Bruins.
Age should not be a deterrent .

Bollie > Krug
Tin Man > Bart
Pateryn > Miller

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Old
05-10-2014, 12:37 AM
  #56
25get
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapala View Post
I totally disagree.
Both Tinordi and Beaulieu were on that perfectly acceptable learning curve of two steps forward and one step back. People always look at Oh they may lose us a game here and there but never Hey they may win us a game here and there. Honestly we could have been playing them both since mid season and still made the playoffs. The East isn't going to suddenly turn into the West next year either.
Next season, two of Bouillon, Weaver and Murray are gone.
Given SCap, I expect Weaver to stay.
Also he could be good to teach those young d-men and he is a RHD.

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Old
05-10-2014, 01:00 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapala View Post
All three of our Kids are more talented than those three Bruins.
Age should not be a deterrent .

Bollie > Krug
Tin Man > Bart
Pateryn > Miller
Of course Jared and Nathan should pan out better than Krug (this one is a bit unexpected) and Bart.

Point I was making is that they were older.
They are playing top minutes in Hamilton.
Most likely, next year, two of them will be on the team.

To me Murray was a rental while Tinordi was being nurtured with the Dogs.
As for Pateryn, his offense improved a lot in the last two years.
He would not get any PP time in Montréal as he gets some in Hamilton.
Beaulieu is also rising up pretty fast but he still need a bit of maturing.

I expect two of them will be in the team next year.
That is a lot: changing 33% of your defense.
Also you need to take in the equation that Therrien (like many coaches) prefers reliable veterans to young players.

None of them can take a top-4 role.
The last D-men who came in and got a top-4 role is PK and even this year, there were times where he was benched...

I repeat, they are younger.
We are pretty much set in defense for the next two or three years.

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Old
05-10-2014, 01:06 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis76 View Post
Gorges brings solid leadership and is a veteran

But I agree we should only keep 1 of them, Markov is great in the season but if we want to build a stanley cup team we need more energy and strength.

Plus we have to give Tinordi and Beaulieu their chances at some point, you know at least they can only get better.
At what age Markov played with the Habs?
23
At what age Markov score 40+ points for the first time?
28

I think that waiting a bit for 21 years old Tinordi and 20 years old Beaulieu is OK...
Not saying that they will be as good as Markov here...

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Old
05-10-2014, 01:18 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Right. That has to be it.
TOI says it all.
You really think you now hockey better than the coaching staff?
How many hours per day are you reviewing games to evaluate players?

Icetime is given to the best players.
Sometimes they do not perform but are still given ice time (Re Pacioretty and Desharnais) but it is because they know the past results.

It goes like this:
  • SH TOI: Weaver, Gorges then Markov, Emelin;
  • PP TOI: Subban, Markov then the rest;
  • ES TOI: Subban, Markov, Emelin, Gorges.

To me, TOI is one of the best stats because it shows where the coaching staff put their stakes.
Unless you believe otherwise, these guys want to win also...

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05-10-2014, 01:32 AM
  #60
Rapala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Of course Jared and Nathan should pan out better than Krug (this one is a bit unexpected) and Bart.

Point I was making is that they were older.
They are playing top minutes in Hamilton.
Most likely, next year, two of them will be on the team.

To me Murray was a rental while Tinordi was being nurtured with the Dogs.
As for Pateryn, his offense improved a lot in the last two years.
He would not get any PP time in Montréal as he gets some in Hamilton.
Beaulieu is also rising up pretty fast but he still need a bit of maturing.

I expect two of them will be in the team next year.
That is a lot: changing 33% of your defense.
Also you need to take in the equation that Therrien (like many coaches) prefers reliable veterans to young players.

None of them can take a top-4 role.
The last D-men who came in and got a top-4 role is PK and even this year, there were times where he was benched...

I repeat, they are younger.
We are pretty much set in defense for the next two or three years.
Your point on age wasn't lost on me but these Kids are just so well prepared these days.
A Tinordi could theoretically play with a PK for example.
A Beaulieu with a Weaver.
Emelin with Josh or Markov.
The thing about building towards a Cup timing is crucial particularly in this salary cap era.
The window of opportunity can shut very quickly just ask Vancouver. It took them three kicks at the can just to make the finals only to fall 1 game short, they also fell off the radar immediately thereafter.
I like Josh but let's just say the Oilers determined he was a piece they needed and offered one of their young studs in a package deal. You couldn't dismiss that out of hand despite his leadership qualities.
You may find to upgrade in one area you have to downgrade in another with the intent on having both areas become an upgrade in the not too distant future.

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05-10-2014, 01:37 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
At what age Markov played with the Habs?
23
At what age Markov score 40+ points for the first time?
28

I think that waiting a bit for 21 years old Tinordi and 20 years old Beaulieu is OK...
Not saying that they will be as good as Markov here...
man you don't deserve the internet at home

Markov is 35 born December 20th
mmk?

we are now 2014
mmk?

In Markov's first season he played 63 games in 2000-2001
mmk?

2014-2000 = 14
your following me?

35-14 = 21

Markov was 21 and a regular when he started + he scored 40+ points when he was 26.

source: http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...vid=nhl-search


+++++

Tinordi is 22 and Beaulieu is 21

and

they are both 1st round picks

and

Markov was a 6th round pick

so yeah i'm just saying man


Last edited by Genesis76: 05-10-2014 at 01:54 AM.
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Old
05-10-2014, 02:17 AM
  #62
25get
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapala View Post
Your point on age wasn't lost on me but these Kids are just so well prepared these days.
A Tinordi could theoretically play with a PK for example.
A Beaulieu with a Weaver.
Emelin with Josh or Markov.
The thing about building towards a Cup timing is crucial particularly in this salary cap era.
The window of opportunity can shut very quickly just ask Vancouver. It took them three kicks at the can just to make the finals only to fall 1 game short, they also fell off the radar immediately thereafter.
I like Josh but let's just say the Oilers determined he was a piece they needed and offered one of their young studs in a package deal. You couldn't dismiss that out of hand despite his leadership qualities.
You may find to upgrade in one area you have to downgrade in another with the intent on having both areas become an upgrade in the not too distant future.
Agreed. But just saying that there is no point to rush them
This is why Bergevin go Murray, Weaver and extended Bouillon.
Tinordi, Pateryn and Beaulieu are not regressing in Hamilton...

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Old
05-10-2014, 02:55 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis76 View Post
man you don't deserve the internet at home

Markov is 35 born December 20th
mmk?

we are now 2014
mmk?

In Markov's first season he played 63 games in 2000-2001
mmk?

2014-2000 = 14
your following me?

35-14 = 21

Markov was 21 and a regular when he started + he scored 40+ points when he was 26.

source: http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...vid=nhl-search


+++++

Tinordi is 22 and Beaulieu is 21

and

they are both 1st round picks

and

Markov was a 6th round pick

so yeah i'm just saying man
You are right...
Markov was indeed 21 when he came in with us...
He played 33 games at 21 with the Habs.

And he was a 6ht round pick... So of course, Tinordi and Beaulieu will be better.
BTW, PK was a second round pick. Picked after Alzner, Ellerby, Shattenkirk, Plante, McDonagh, Cole, Smith, Petrevki, Brennan, Ellington, Godfrey, Cross and Marshall.

Beaulieu and Tinordi are not Markov and will most likely never reach the same level...
We waited two full years before playing Markov.

So Markov took four full seasons before reaching 46 points.
And he did reach that level at 27 years old.
That season, he started at 26 and finished at 27.

So I was wrong by one year.

Is this a reason to bring Beaulieu as a full time d-men at 20 years old?
You think he is better than Markov, Emelin and Gorges right now?

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Old
05-10-2014, 10:32 AM
  #64
Genesis76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
You are right...
Markov was indeed 21 when he came in with us...
He played 33 games at 21 with the Habs.

And he was a 6ht round pick... So of course, Tinordi and Beaulieu will be better.
BTW, PK was a second round pick. Picked after Alzner, Ellerby, Shattenkirk, Plante, McDonagh, Cole, Smith, Petrevki, Brennan, Ellington, Godfrey, Cross and Marshall.

Beaulieu and Tinordi are not Markov and will most likely never reach the same level...
We waited two full years before playing Markov.

So Markov took four full seasons before reaching 46 points.
And he did reach that level at 27 years old.
That season, he started at 26 and finished at 27.

So I was wrong by one year.

Is this a reason to bring Beaulieu as a full time d-men at 20 years old?
You think he is better than Markov, Emelin and Gorges right now?
Dude where do you get your sources? markov played 63 games not 33.

I think that Markov is 35 1/2 and will eventually retire soon. I also think Tinirdi and Beaulieu can bring things Markov cant any more. I think we are at a point where you need to give them a chance as regulars.

And 1st round picks always get special treatements.

Next year Beaulieu will be 21 i dont see a problem bringing him in the league next year.

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05-10-2014, 11:30 AM
  #65
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Given the concerns with Markov tailing off last year I figured MT would watch Markovs minutes more and actually give him a game off here and there just to keep him fresher for the play-offs. Instead Markov played the highest minutes of his career I think.

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05-10-2014, 11:47 AM
  #66
Rapala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Given the concerns with Markov tailing off last year I figured MT would watch Markovs minutes more and actually give him a game off here and there just to keep him fresher for the play-offs. Instead Markov played the highest minutes of his career I think.
I was kinda scratching my head over that one as well.
I'm not sure if Therrien was really pushing for home ice but we could/should have rested Markov another 2-3 games.

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05-10-2014, 05:24 PM
  #67
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We could let Brian Gionta go and sign Steve Bernier 6'2 220 lbs

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05-10-2014, 05:32 PM
  #68
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We're not signing anyone nor do we need to resign Markov and Vanek. We will be just fine by having Weaver as the only UFA thats staying:

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Gallagher
Bourque - Plekanec - Andrighetto
Eller - Galchenyuk - Briere
Moen - Prust - Weise

Extras: White, Crisp, De La Rose, Bozon, Bournival

Gorges - Subban
Emelin - Pateryn
Beaulieu - Weaver
Tinordi

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05-10-2014, 05:35 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeljack View Post
We could let Brian Gionta go and sign Steve Bernier 6'2 220 lbs
Gionta 13-14 season as a aging vet was better than Bernier best season. Plus, I kinda doubt he leaves the NJ 4th line.

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05-10-2014, 05:36 PM
  #70
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Markov isn't producing many points but he's being surprisingly physical, safe, and steady IMO.

He's clearly found how he has to play given his age and slower speed. He won't wow us 5on5, but he's looking solid to me

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05-10-2014, 05:38 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
Markov isn't producing many points but he's being surprisingly physical, safe, and steady IMO.

He's clearly found how he has to play given his age and slower speed. He won't wow us 5on5, but he's looking solid to me
Hockey IQ

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05-17-2014, 06:06 PM
  #72
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Why do we still have Markov - Emelin as our top pairing?

Lowest scoring pair and low +/-


If they are not our third pairing against the speedy rangers next game, then im gona flip.

We all know that Markov and Vanek are walking this off season. We need to bring in a speedy offensive defenseman like niskanen in the off season.

Gorges - Subban
Emelin - Niskanen
Beaulieu - Weaver
Tinordi

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Old
05-17-2014, 06:56 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsRockBruinsChoke View Post
Why do we still have Markov - Emelin as our top pairing?

Lowest scoring pair and low +/-


If they are not our third pairing against the speedy rangers next game, then im gona flip.

We all know that Markov and Vanek are walking this off season. We need to bring in a speedy offensive defenseman like niskanen in the off season.

Gorges - Subban
Emelin - Niskanen
Beaulieu - Weaver
Tinordi
This is a concept that exists only in your mind.

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05-17-2014, 07:07 PM
  #74
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I think Markov and Emelin should be separated. Their lack of mobility is very exploitable and makes both players less effective. Emelin is 10x slower having to make an adjustment on his weak side, it may help if we moved him to his natural side. Our defence NEEDS to be a mobile, puck-moving defence if we want to succeed.

Markov-Subban
Gorges-Weaver
Emelin-Beaulieu

I'd consider trying that.

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05-17-2014, 07:27 PM
  #75
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Is it time to let Markov go? Has the time come? It happened to Koivu not too long ago.

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