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Euro Bashers: You sicken me

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:10 AM
  #26
Merlin401
 
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Look at the elite teams in the league:

How many Euro's not counting goalies? (Might be off by one or two, with all the IR player movements)

Nashville: 6 (and forsberg is a tough guy)
New Jersey: 3
Anaheim: 2
Buffalo is hard to say: 7 or so? They have so many injuries I dont know who is on their regular roster.
Calgary has been up there for years: 4
Carolina had half a dozen winning the cup last year.

Detroit has 14 (and they've been bounced 1st round every year since they went to being this ridiculously soft team).

I'm not against European players. They have some of the most talented guys in the league. And some of them are tough and some have a lot of heart.

But IN GENERAL, north american players are tougher players. They're more likely to give 110%, hitting, fighting, defending teammates, going into the corners, battling for position in front of the net, etc etc. I believe thats what wins championships.

Is this true of everyone. Not a chance. Is Tom Poti soft as hell? Yes. Is Mats Sundin one tough S.O.B.? Yes. Is Raitis Ivanans one crazy fighter? Yes. But they are the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

I want to see a tough team that will be able to battle through the huge hits of April, not score some fancy dipsy-doo untouched goals in October. Whichever country they are from.

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:11 AM
  #27
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Come on guys. This is a potentially volatile topic. Respect other opinions. Disagree with others. But do not attack other users.

I don't want to have to close this thread.

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:17 AM
  #28
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Of course it's acceptable to criticize players for perceived poor play, and it's natural that some fans are frustrated when Rangers continue to blow two goal leads.

However, I think many are unrealistic about things:

- Rangers did not give up a lot of value for players like Jagr, Straka, Nylander, etc.
- Rangers wouldn't get a lot of value at this point for these players, because they may only play for another couple years.
- Last year Jagr had one of the best seasons anyone's had this decade, and played through injuries. This year, he continues to play through injuries and is recovering from major shoulder surgery. These facts are almost forgotten and some have the audacity to claim he's faking injuries.
- I know Malik, Rozie, etc. have played poorly at times and may deserve criticism. Do you think there are plenty of NHL defensemen playing in Hartford? Do you think Jagr would object to acquiring Lidstrom and Niedermayer? Haha, not going to happen!
- The perception that Jagr runs the team is wrong IMO. Many of the Euro players were already here when he arrived. Since last year, Rucinsky, Sykora, Kaspar, and Ozo are no longer playing. They have added Shanahan, Avery & Mara (via Hall & Ward), etc. If anything, they have become less European.

As far as the power play, it may be frustrating at times, but still has been effective overall the past two years. Not the best, but far from the worst.

I think it helps the Rangers to have different styles on the team, even though it may lead to friction at times. It makes their opponents have to prepare for and defend different styles. Without the European players, the Rangers would be a far below average team with a single, very predictable style. Would this make the Euro-bashing fans happy, since it would be North American style of play?

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03-14-2007, 11:20 AM
  #29
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While I agree with the thread starter in principle - Euro bashing is senseless and in really poor taste - I can't help laugh at the display of fuzzy logic.

However, I'll avoid debating the finer points of his argument and simply just agree that Euro bashing is silly, short-sighted, and misguided.

I don't suppose a player's nationality will ever be removed from the discussion, but I don't fault you for trying.

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:21 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin401 View Post
But IN GENERAL, north american players are tougher players
thats crazy dude, lol

of the top of my head here are some tough players with rings to go along with that.

Esa Tikkanen - 4 cups with Edmonton, 1 with rangers
Ulf Samuelsson - won 2 cup with pens
Bobby Holik - won 3 cups with devils
Peter Forsberg - won the 2 cups with the avs
Ville Nieminen - won the cup with the avs


4 of 5 played with our beloved nyr.

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:22 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by roykeane View Post
our best players are euros. lundqvist, jagr, toots.
toots is average at best

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:24 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Merlin401 View Post
But IN GENERAL, north american players are tougher players
thats crazy dude, lol

of the top of my head here are some tough players with rings to go along with that.

Esa Tikkanen - 4 cups with Edmonton, 1 with rangers
Ulf Samuelsson - won 2 cup with pens
Bobby Holik - won 3 cups with devils
Peter Forsberg - won the 2 cups with the avs
Ville Nieminen - won the cup with the avs


4 of 5 played with our beloved nyr.

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:25 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Fans want results (goal scoring).

Speaking for myself, I very much love to watch highly-skilled players controlling, moving, passing and playmaking the puck.

But when there are no results and it all becomes like a Ballerina Ice Folly, it becomes pretentious and wasteful.

If they were getting consistent results (goal scoring), you would not see anyone complaining.

Especially with New York fans. New Yorkers don't enjoy a lot of pomp, flash and show with nothing of susbstance to drive it home for the finale.

If Nylander and Jagr buried the puck at least 50% of the time they're out there doing their fancy-smanchie Ballet; you wouldn't see anyone angry or frustrated.

Ultimately, the responsibility falls on the shoulders of Jagr and Nylander to get some results from their whirling ballet. Not the fans.
&Rangerboy-

I agree 100% with RangerBoy, its not a euro thing, or atleast no much of a Euro thing.

Its patience. The talk about NY beeing able to rebuild is just laughable right now. If people say that they can handle a rebuild, I am sure they can, but there is defenitly proof right now that it would be a living hell for everyone involved, staff, coaches and players.

Allot of people are using "its New York" as a excuse to be stupid right now.

I have no doubt in my mind that Renney were into the decision of not signing big UFA's in the offseason, to not commiting 25m over 5 years on a Pavel Kubina, to not commit 25m for Marc Savard, because of the risk to stand there with them in 5 years. Who in their right mind would take a job here in NY without making sure that the future is now after the heat Renney have taken?

What will the brass approch be next season? If its "win now", can anyone blame them?

Quite frankly, I feel that the atmosphere around the team right now is nothing but pure treachery. By the fans and by the media. That really dissapoints me.

Is that NY?

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:25 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
toots is average at best
Yeah ok.
That hip check is sure average.. at best..

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:29 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
toots is average at best
Think again.

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:30 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
Way to completely turn around the first point of this thread.
Personally: i'm not following Rangers because of Jagr, but it's good bonus to have him here.
I'm not whining that someone is bashing him, what is effed up is (by my opinion) that there are just double standards for some fans here, and it is becoming annoying to read. Because it's still the same stupid song.
Sometimes it's hard to dig up good posts from the screwed one's in threads.
You aren't going to like or agree with everything you read

What double standards?Jagr is the star of the team.He is going to be a lightning rod for controversy.Do you realize that Mark Messier was booed off the ice in his second season in New York?Some members of the media(Mark Everson-NY Post)wanted him off the team.This was after Messier's first season where Messier won the Hart,the Rangers won the President's trophy and Brian Leetch won his first Norris which Brian contributed to being around Messier.This is how New York is

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:32 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
toots is average at best
You're wrong.Tyutin is in his second full season.The Rangers miss him right now

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:39 AM
  #38
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I have been a Ranger fan since 1979.My father made me a Ranger fan.My first favorite Ranger is Plexi Rexi Reijo Routsalienen.Second favorite is Tomas Sandstrom.My avatar is Henrik Lundqvist on the cover of the THN Yearbook which was the cover sent out to the New York area.There is a big picture of Henrik(a Swede) and two little pictures of Marty Brodeur(Canadian) and Rick DiPietro(American)

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:58 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
&Rangerboy-

I agree 100% with RangerBoy, its not a euro thing, or atleast no much of a Euro thing.

Its patience. The talk about NY beeing able to rebuild is just laughable right now. If people say that they can handle a rebuild, I am sure they can, but there is defenitly proof right now that it would be a living hell for everyone involved, staff, coaches and players.

Allot of people are using "its New York" as a excuse to be stupid right now.

I have no doubt in my mind that Renney were into the decision of not signing big UFA's in the offseason, to not commiting 25m over 5 years on a Pavel Kubina, to not commit 25m for Marc Savard, because of the risk to stand there with them in 5 years. Who in their right mind would take a job here in NY without making sure that the future is now after the heat Renney have taken?

What will the brass approch be next season? If its "win now", can anyone blame them?

Quite frankly, I feel that the atmosphere around the team right now is nothing but pure treachery. By the fans and by the media. That really dissapoints me.

Is that NY?

If you think we're bad, be thankful you haven't gone to Yankee Stadium. They make MSG look like a bunch of angels.

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Old
03-14-2007, 12:02 PM
  #40
Ola
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
What double standards?Jagr is the star of the team.He is going to be a lightning rod for controversy.Do you realize that Mark Messier was booed off the ice in his second season in New York?Some members of the media(Mark Everson-NY Post)wanted him off the team.This was after Messier's first season where Messier won the Hart,the Rangers won the President's trophy and Brian Leetch won his first Norris which Brian contributed to being around Messier.This is how New York is
Yeah, and nobody tryed to build something properly for the NYR in 15 years after that. Both coache's and GM's were fired. And every coach and GM that came here played it "future now" after it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerSteve View Post
If you think we're bad, be thankful you haven't gone to Yankee Stadium. They make MSG look like a bunch of angels.
I don't care at all if they are bad or not. Yankee Stadium is like a church compared to just about any soccerstadium in Europe.

I care about whats best for the team, I live and die with them. Am I dissapointed after a blown loss? It pretty much ruins a day for me. But I just don't think me taking that out on the people in charge are worth it if I know that it will make us worth in the future...

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Old
03-14-2007, 12:17 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Yeah, and nobody tryed to build something properly for the NYR in 15 years after that. Both coache's and GM's were fired. And every coach and GM that came here played it "future now" after it.



I don't care at all if they are bad or not. Yankee Stadium is like a church compared to just about any soccerstadium in Europe.

I care about whats best for the team, I live and die with them. Am I dissapointed after a blown loss? It pretty much ruins a day for me. But I just don't think me taking that out on the people in charge are worth it if I know that it will make us worth in the future...

Come again? You lost me on the last part. I hear waht you're saying about caring for the team, and that is what is great for all of us being fans. Sometimes it just makes you scratch your head when you see Jagr floating and not skating, Nylander's refusal to do the simple thing and put the puck deep. Does it require someone to come out with a 'racist' comment? Of course not. I think it's pretty safe to say the Rangers are very predictable in every aspect of their first line. Nylander goes coast to coast, Jagr hangs by the top of the blueline, Nylander gains the zone, dishes off to Jagr and away we go. I think this coupled with sense of urgency us fans see isn't helping either. 2-0 leads that are always blown isn't necessarily helping anybody.

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Old
03-14-2007, 12:27 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
Yeah ok.
That hip check is sure average.. at best..
I like Tyutin's future but I'd bet he doled out 75% of those nice hip checks in the first 40 games. For some reason they virtually disappeared.

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Old
03-14-2007, 12:33 PM
  #43
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I for one do not appreciate the style of game that many of the European players play and do not think that any team that is to heavy with the European Flavor will ever win a SC.
Detroit Red Wings ring a bell?

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Old
03-14-2007, 12:34 PM
  #44
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You have the right to say whatever you want (within the rules of the site) and everyone has the right to criticize your opinions (within the rules of the site). Deal with it. You're the one who's whining.
The problem I have with the Euros is not with the players, its with the style being the main way the rangers play. I think a good mix of both is what we need, but not if we are going to stick all of them on one line.

Straka is a Euro i can take all day long. Nylander on the other hand....

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Old
03-14-2007, 12:38 PM
  #45
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I like Tyutin's future but I'd bet he doled out 75% of those nice hip checks in the first 40 games. For some reason they virtually disappeared.
gotta agree with ya here.....the hip check is awesome.....but it def dissapeared half way thru the season.....but he was still our best d man this year.....

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Old
03-14-2007, 12:40 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
thats crazy dude, lol

of the top of my head here are some tough players with rings to go along with that.

Esa Tikkanen - 4 cups with Edmonton, 1 with rangers
Ulf Samuelsson - won 2 cup with pens
Bobby Holik - won 3 cups with devils
Peter Forsberg - won the 2 cups with the avs
Ville Nieminen - won the cup with the avs


4 of 5 played with our beloved nyr.
HAHAH, ok. I guess you proved your point. In the history of hockey, you can name 5 tough European players that won a cup. I guess European players really do = championships! And when this beastly Euro-centric NYR team wins the Cup for years on end, this list will soon quadruple in size! What was I thinking

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Old
03-14-2007, 12:45 PM
  #47
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What I hate to see is the people bashing Nylander. The guy is having the best year of his career. He absolutely shouldn't be playing as well as he has this season and he still gets bashed over here.

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03-14-2007, 01:00 PM
  #48
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Come again? You lost me on the last part.
Its one thing to be dissapointed on the team for not dooing better, its another when you should take it out on them.

If we get the first people who had the guts to try to do it right fired after 2 seasons nobody will put themselfs in that position again.

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Old
03-14-2007, 01:02 PM
  #49
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Want to talk about soft...take a LONG hard look at Sid the KID! He's NA and soft as JLo's azz!
.if this is you're thought process, then you obviously don't watch enuff/know about hockey..... sid would go through a wall to do his job!!!!!!!!!!!


Last edited by SingnBluesOnBroadway: 03-14-2007 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Come on....
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Old
03-14-2007, 01:11 PM
  #50
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Buffalo is hard to say: 7 or so? They have so many injuries I dont know who is on their regular roster.
Buffalo, once everyone's healthy will have 9 European skaters suited. So half of their lineup.
5 out of the 6 guys on D are European.

And believe it or not, none of them finishes his checks as much as say, Roszival. But they have loads of support, and that's the key to their style of play.

Personally, I think last season set the expectations all wong for the Ranger faithful. I got to like your team last season, when they worked hard, and were picked to finish dead last in the East, yet nearly won their division.
However, this team is weaker than the team that was picked to finish last in the conference.
IMO; Sather went after wrong people, and guys like Rucinsky, Sykora, Nieminen and especially Rucchin (who was constantly bashed on the boards from what I saw back then) brought more to the table than what their stats said (well Rucinsky and Sykora were PPG players).
Shanahan and Cullen were good additions, but combine with the departure of others, plus losing Kaspar who had a pretty strong season in 05-06, some really bad luck with injuries... I get how you can get frustrated with this team, but believe it or not, they're still playing above their heads, beating teams 2-1 and 3-2 cos they LACK offense and are hanging in there.
Dunno much about Euro bashing etc., but most of your players have been playing better than advertised when you were signing them (Nylander and Straka PPG guys, Rozsival IMO is a valid top-4 guy now in this league, very underrated from what I see, but guy's logging 28 minutes a night... And doing his best, but that's just not him.


Blame your GM for your frustrations, those guys are underdogs and you're delusional if you think they aren't.
A one-line team even with Shanny on board, with Rozsival and Tyutin your best D-men? Guys, you should be proud of them, not bashing them. They're hanging in there with a decent shot of making playoffs for the 2nd straight year after missing out on them with loaded rosters and 80m $ payrolls.


Last edited by Corto: 03-14-2007 at 01:20 PM.
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