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Euro Bashers: You sicken me

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Old
03-14-2007, 02:17 PM
  #51
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Heavy Euro teams simply do not win cups. The problem with defense is how soft the guys are. Not really where they are from

Malik - Softest 6'8 guy I've ever seen.
Pock - Soft as butter
Mara - Another soft 6'4 defenseman in New York
Rachunek - Soft and never hits anybody

Throwin the fact that Tyutin doesn't nearly play physical enough and you can see one of the major problems on this team.

It's also not hard to see when the team added a tougher player in Avery who actually had skill, they started playing better.

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Old
03-14-2007, 02:20 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger View Post
I find it disturbing that certain individuals call out the players based on where they were born.

I have no problem calling out a player for their poor play, heck, I was calling out Nylander on Sunday for his feeble attempt to play defense.

Every person on these boards has the right to call out the person. But do not call out the nationality.

thank you very much!

thats excactly what pisses me off.
instead of calling the players out because of their poor play , they get bashed because they were born on the other side of the planet.
Its disgusting.

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Old
03-14-2007, 02:34 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Jazz View Post
Detroit Red Wings ring a bell?
good selection

In 1994-95 the top guys on that team were Fedorov, Lidstrom, Fetisov, Kozlov and Vlad the impaler. They were the players on that team that had the most impact of the european contingent. In fact they probably won the cup for the Red Wings that year so I have to give you credit.

In 96-97 the top guys were, again, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Fetisov, Kozlov, and Vlad the Impaler, but their influence on the result was greatly reduced as Liddy only got 8 points in 20 games, Fedorov lead the team again, but everyone else medicore.

In 97-98, the same top guys appeared and added Holmstrom to the mix. Fedorov was again just under a point a game, Liddy was back to being dominant and Igor and Kozlov both were instrumental in that win, but the surprise was Holmstrom's contribution that playoff season. Again, the Wings do not win with the contributions of those players.

Not going to discput that at all.

What I will do is take each player and look at how they played

Fedorov, european style that was finesse oriented but never chose to give up a shot for the perfect goal. Was as much a goal scorer as he was a passer.

Lidstrom, a hybrid if you ask me. Can finesse the pants of a player, but can also put that player into the boards just the same.

Fetisov - More of a take the body type. Not much in the way of finesse, but would not look out of place playing that game either.

Kozlov, permiter player that benefitted (still does) from others getting their noses dirty.

Vlad the Impaler - Played the game with ill will, one of my favorite players of all time.

Holmstrom - Is becoming a favorite player of mine right now. Someone that can take a ton of punishment and keep coming back for more.

Larionov - total finesse.

The difference between those players and the top 5 guys we have is that neither of that group above save Igor and Kozlov, were shy with regards to initiating contact. The 5 guys we have all look to make the play that involves the least amount of contact and what that does is it doesn't take the man out of the play and that's a problem.

You did point out a team that had a heavy European flavor, but the flaw in your selection is that that was not a five man unit used in Detroit, the way Jagr and his band of merry men are used here in NY.

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Old
03-14-2007, 02:41 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Merlin401 View Post
HAHAH, ok. I guess you proved your point. In the history of hockey, you can name 5 tough European players that won a cup. I guess European players really do = championships! And when this beastly Euro-centric NYR team wins the Cup for years on end, this list will soon quadruple in size! What was I thinking
Of the top of my head.. yeah.. if I did research.. I could prob name quite a few.

Why support the Rangers if you hate the players. Perhaps you should move to Kentucky or something and put a sheet over your head.

I'm a native New Yorker & I have no time for racist fools.

I support every single NYR because that is what your suppose to do. Your not suppose to hate your team. THIS IS NEW YORK CITY. CAPITAL OF THE WORLD. I'M DELIGHTED THAT THE NYR have so many diff ethnic groups on our team which represents our wonderful city.

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Old
03-14-2007, 02:44 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyattrocks View Post
Heavy Euro teams simply do not win cups. The problem with defense is how soft the guys are. Not really where they are from

Malik - Softest 6'8 guy I've ever seen.
Pock - Soft as butter
Mara - Another soft 6'4 defenseman in New York
Rachunek - Soft and never hits anybody

Throwin the fact that Tyutin doesn't nearly play physical enough and you can see one of the major problems on this team.

It's also not hard to see when the team added a tougher player in Avery who actually had skill, they started playing better.

Who says a tall player has to be a bad ass? Where does it say that? Ever hear of the term gentle giant? Malik has NEVER used his body like that. Its not in hisnature. Don't confuse that with him being from Europe.

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Old
03-14-2007, 02:45 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Buffalo, once everyone's healthy will have 9 European skaters suited. So half of their lineup.
5 out of the 6 guys on D are European.

And believe it or not, none of them finishes his checks as much as say, Roszival. But they have loads of support, and that's the key to their style of play.

Personally, I think last season set the expectations all wong for the Ranger faithful. I got to like your team last season, when they worked hard, and were picked to finish dead last in the East, yet nearly won their division.
However, this team is weaker than the team that was picked to finish last in the conference.
IMO; Sather went after wrong people, and guys like Rucinsky, Sykora, Nieminen and especially Rucchin (who was constantly bashed on the boards from what I saw back then) brought more to the table than what their stats said (well Rucinsky and Sykora were PPG players).
Shanahan and Cullen were good additions, but combine with the departure of others, plus losing Kaspar who had a pretty strong season in 05-06, some really bad luck with injuries... I get how you can get frustrated with this team, but believe it or not, they're still playing above their heads, beating teams 2-1 and 3-2 cos they LACK offense and are hanging in there.
Dunno much about Euro bashing etc., but most of your players have been playing better than advertised when you were signing them (Nylander and Straka PPG guys, Rozsival IMO is a valid top-4 guy now in this league, very underrated from what I see, but guy's logging 28 minutes a night... And doing his best, but that's just not him.


Blame your GM for your frustrations, those guys are underdogs and you're delusional if you think they aren't.
A one-line team even with Shanny on board, with Rozsival and Tyutin your best D-men? Guys, you should be proud of them, not bashing them. They're hanging in there with a decent shot of making playoffs for the 2nd straight year after missing out on them with loaded rosters and 80m $ payrolls.
excellent perspective, corto

and don't forget about nylander. The man is a career 2nd line center, whose been performing like a 1 for two years now. disregard if he's playing with JJ or not, that's an accomplishment...he shouldn't be bashed b/c in reality he's playing the best hockey of his career; he's playing above his standard

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:08 PM
  #57
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i don't like the general euro bashing but if someone has a problem with nylander, malik or jagr.. that's fine by me.. there's reason to hate on them

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:13 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyattrocks View Post
Heavy Euro teams simply do not win cups. The problem with defense is how soft the guys are. Not really where they are from

Malik - Softest 6'8 guy I've ever seen.
Pock - Soft as butter
Mara - Another soft 6'4 defenseman in New York
Rachunek - Soft and never hits anybody

Throwin the fact that Tyutin doesn't nearly play physical enough and you can see one of the major problems on this team.

It's also not hard to see when the team added a tougher player in Avery who actually had skill, they started playing better.
what a terrible post

for starters malik is not 6'8, but i'm not gonna disagree
pock isn't necessarily soft, he is just never in position to use his body
mara is anything but soft
rachunek is anything but soft

tyutin doesn't play physical enough?!

i don't believe a person that has watched most games this season would make any of these comments

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:24 PM
  #59
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during the lockout i watched two elite league games in the czech republic (yes, when many czech nhlers went back) and two elite league games in slovakia (yes, when many slovak nhlers went back) ... GREAT TECHNICAL GAME... BUT ONLY 3 BODYCHECKS (if you can call them that!!) IN 4 GAMES LOADED WITH NHL PLAYERS! C'mon!

its a hockey culture thing... trust me...

as a fellow austrian, i have to voice my disappointment in thomas pck. i am not sold on him at all... #6 AT BEST!

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:33 PM
  #60
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you're my boy Czech your Math


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Old
03-14-2007, 04:33 PM
  #61
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I have to say that some of the Euro-bashers in this thread don't have a valid point to support this bashing of Euros around the NHL,
but I can understand why you're doing it when you are basing your opinions upon the play of the Euros on this team(NYR).
You can't just say that all Euros suck only becasuse some of the Euros on this team do.

Don't blame the players. Blame the ones that put this team together.


1.Jagr: Every time Sweden plays Czech and Jagr is on the ice, the swedish commentators have to say-Jagr is a whiner, he can't succeed if you don't please him, blah blah blah, and the Czechs are mentally weak blah blah blah (as in, when you have a lead on them, you will win easily).
This shows that Euros have prejudices towards each other too (when it comes to hockey) , and that Jagr is perceived as a moody whiner.

2.Nylander: Nylander is the softest swedish center (soft as in, never hits, never back-checks and doesn't
know what defense is) , not only in the NHL, but everywhere.
So some of you think that every European center plays like Nylander, but we all know why he plays in the
NHL (yes-because of the spins and the skills).

BTW, 4 more goals and Nylander sets a new career high in goals.

No one can blame this Jagr needs to be surrounded by his buddies thing on Jagr, if this is actually the case, then one has to question team management, how can they build a team this way???.

So we all know what type of players they are, thus no one can blame them for playing hockey the way they do as long as
the team is winning, but when the team is losing everyone focuses on these players that are invisible unless they
show up on the scoresheet because they don't contribute defensively. The team isn't losing because of them, they lose because of coaching mainly.

There are far bigger issues on this team than Jagr, Straka and Nylander.
The Rangers have Poor coaching, poor secondary scoring, No defense (2 d-men placed on waivers 20 games into the season!!!, that's bad preparation, blame management), injuries to key players. What we are left with is Jagr,Nylander, an injured Straka and Lundqvist.
These four Euros play will decide whether the Rangers will make it to the playoffs or not (I believe they will make it).

The only negative thing is that Malik will get even more ice-time now that Rachunek is injured.

Are some of the Euros on this team soft? Yes.
Does that mean that all the Euros are soft? No.

I wouldn't worry too much, the Rangers will be much better next year if they sign some NHL-caliber d-men regardless of where they come from. In conclusion, the Rangers need a defense that can help Lundqvist more than anything, right now they have a defense that scores on him, can't carry the puck, can't clear the puck, can't block the puck(well some of them like to block pucks with the stick), can't clear rebounds, can't keep shots to the outside, easily fooled (Staal's breakaway goal SH).

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:35 PM
  #62
DontStaal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyattrocks View Post
Heavy Euro teams simply do not win cups. The problem with defense is how soft the guys are. Not really where they are from

Malik - Softest 6'8 guy I've ever seen.
Pock - Soft as butter
Mara - Another soft 6'4 defenseman in New York
Rachunek - Soft and never hits anybody

Throwin the fact that Tyutin doesn't nearly play physical enough and you can see one of the major problems on this team.

It's also not hard to see when the team added a tougher player in Avery who actually had skill, they started playing better.

uhhh.... riiiiiiiiite

Mara isnt European. He's American, so go figure

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:38 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontStaal View Post
uhhh.... riiiiiiiiite

Mara isnt European. He's American, so go figure
I don't think Mara is soft (and I don't neccesarily agree with his analysis). But to be fair, pyattrocks did say that the problem is the defense is soft, NOT where the players are from

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:40 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't think Mara is soft (and I don't neccesarily agree with his analysis). But to be fair, pyattrocks did say that the problem is the defense is soft, NOT where the players are from
rite... my bad.

but to reiterate, i disagree that Mara is soft.

European defensemen though are far more offensive minded however, and more finesse therefore they hinder from taking the body. Instead they use the pokecheck a lot more effectively.

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:43 PM
  #65
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I agree whole heartedly.

Without european players this league won't be as exciting.

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:43 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by DontStaal View Post
but to reiterate, i disagree that Mara is soft.
I agree.

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:47 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by 51tyutin51 View Post
I agree whole heartedly.

Without european players this league won't be as exciting.
All I have to say is A.O

Hes very exciting!

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:55 PM
  #68
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I haven't seen Mara play much...

lately, but I think one may say he isn't always soft. I think he's been an inconsistent player physically and defensively, somewhat like an Eric Brewer. Size and skill, but not always using it to his fullest potential. If Mara hasn't been soft, that's a plus, but over the course of a full season, you may see some softness, unless it's the change of scenery that has done him good. Even Poti had stretches of not being soft, but of course that came after nearly a full season of being soft so nobody really noticed.

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Old
03-14-2007, 04:57 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyattrocks View Post

Throwin the fact that Tyutin doesn't nearly play physical enough and you can see one of the major problems on this team.

.
What?

Tyutin was top 7 among defensmean in hits thrown and top 15 in the league before he got injured. Tyutin hit someone every shift it seemed like. He was 2nd on the team to Hollweg.

You don't have to knock players out with hits to be considered physical.

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Old
03-14-2007, 05:00 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
lately, but I think one may say he isn't always soft. I think he's been an inconsistent player physically and defensively, somewhat like an Eric Brewer. Size and skill, but not always using it to his fullest potential. If Mara hasn't been soft, that's a plus, but over the course of a full season, you may see some softness, unless it's the change of scenery that has done him good. Even Poti had stretches of not being soft, but of course that came after nearly a full season of being soft so nobody really noticed.
I also think that Mara is a little banged up/

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Old
03-14-2007, 05:01 PM
  #71
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I'm an European and the game has gone way too Euro for my taste.

I want my hockey fast & furious, intense physical battles with lots of emotion and anger. And none of my European friends can deny the fact that Euros don't bring much of that type of game. There are exceptions like Kaspar, Ruutu (both) etc. but average european player clearly lacks the intensity compared to average canadian player. U.S players are somewhere in between.

Of course there are differences between different european nationalities, finns play different game compared to czechs for example (much closer to NA game while not as skilled) so you have to be careful when making generalizations like this.

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Old
03-14-2007, 05:02 PM
  #72
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Tyutin...

I think we all can agree with that. But again, I think many people like to see old time hockey, where a guy like Leetch may get so upset with a guy like Verbeek that he drops the gloves. Different style of game, and as I said in an earlier post, it's hard to argue with people over the style of game they prefer. Of course, people equate the 'softness' with Euros, as by and large they do play a different game, but again, it's not fair to single them out and call all Euros soft and ignore all the soft non-Euros, of which there are plenty.

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Old
03-14-2007, 05:03 PM
  #73
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Pyatt..

Toots has stepped up his physical game this season. I would say, however, that it's been a tale of two seasons, where he was more intense in the first half and less in the second half. But he did show he can play that type of game. Looking forward to next season because the kid's made strides each season.

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Old
03-14-2007, 05:07 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
Of the top of my head.. yeah.. if I did research.. I could prob name quite a few. .
Thats the point. You wouldn't have to research to name literally hundreds of tough N.A. players that have won cups. Look at any winning team and you've got plenty of tough N.A. players.

Quote:
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Why support the Rangers if you hate the players.
Because the Rangers are MY TEAM. I can dislike players on my team and I can disagree with how its built.

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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
Perhaps you should move to Kentucky or something and put a sheet over your head. I'm a native New Yorker & I have no time for racist fools.
Because... I dont like the European style of play? Do you even know what a "race" is? You really are precious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
THIS IS NEW YORK CITY. CAPITAL OF THE WORLD. I'M DELIGHTED THAT THE NYR have so many diff ethnic groups on our team which represents our wonderful city.
Beyond the fact that this post is pretty fruity, I was wondering how much diversity we have on our team?

Races: 1: White (lol, hooray diversity!)
Ethnicities: we have people from Noth America, Czech/Russia and Sweden. Very representative of NY!

But seriously, I would welcome Donald Brashear, Chris Simon and Ramzi Abid to the fold. That would quadruple both our toughness and our diversity and make us both happy right? And please think before you respond. You've embarrassed yourself enough for one day and I'm starting to feel bad.

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Old
03-14-2007, 05:22 PM
  #75
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I like hockey players who can double as football players not as figure skaters.

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