HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Prospects
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

NHL teams vote for new draft system

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-13-2007, 10:00 PM
  #26
Bird Law
Daisy's back.
 
Bird Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Country Roads
Country: United States
Posts: 72,824
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Bird Law
Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap View Post
Thank you for reminding us that the NHL is actually about winning on the ice, not getting the highest draft picks and winning the HF poll. It needs to be said at least once a day.
Frankly, there should be a sticky of it on EVERY forum. Just so people aren't posting retarded **** day in, day out.

__________________
"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB
"Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
"Used to be only Twinkies and cockroaches could survive a nuke. I'd add Habs to that. I'm convinced the CH stands for Club du Hypocrisy." - Gee Wally
Bird Law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2007, 01:27 AM
  #27
nanzenkills
Registered User
 
nanzenkills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario, California
Country: United States
Posts: 2,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
The main thing with this is that winning a round of the playoffs is MUCH MUCH MUCH more rewarding to a team than getting a slightly better draft pick. You make more money, you give your fans something to cheer about, etc.

That's the reasoning.

I'd much rather have the Rangers win their first round if they got in as an 8th seed than have a pick at 15th or 16th instead of 19th or 20th. I mean, what the hell is the real difference?

The only teams and fans who will complain about this are the lower seeded playoff team fans.

I mean, God ****ing forbid their team win a round and they have to forfeit a bit in the draft! OH NO!
I completely agree with everything that is said here. I mean, come on, isn't the whole point of hockey to win the Stanley Cup?

nanzenkills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2007, 02:44 AM
  #28
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
The main thing with this is that winning a round of the playoffs is MUCH MUCH MUCH more rewarding to a team than getting a slightly better draft pick. You make more money, you give your fans something to cheer about, etc.

That's the reasoning.

I'd much rather have the Rangers win their first round if they got in as an 8th seed than have a pick at 15th or 16th instead of 19th or 20th. I mean, what the hell is the real difference?

The only teams and fans who will complain about this are the lower seeded playoff team fans.

I mean, God ****ing forbid their team win a round and they have to forfeit a bit in the draft! OH NO!

What in the hell are you talking about? You are implying that teams, fans, or anyone who is in the playoffs gives a damn at the time about draft position and will act accordingly. What a crock. This has nothing to do with that. Everyone who is in the playoffs will do all that they can to win. Every fan will root for their team to win.

This has to do with the aftermath. The draft is to even the playing field and to give a hand up to lesser teams. And the handicap the better teams. If that is the goal then this is a lousy idea. It will give a hand up to a team that has an off week during their first series but was far better than the lower seed who got hot for a week and advanced before getting blown out.

It is not a huge deal, the difference between say 15 and 25 likely is not that huge in the draft. Still, it is not keeping with the goal of the draft. And to say what you did above, that it would encourage tanking or some such silly argument, is ludicrous.

Jaded-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2007, 01:09 PM
  #29
nanzenkills
Registered User
 
nanzenkills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario, California
Country: United States
Posts: 2,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
What in the hell are you talking about? You are implying that teams, fans, or anyone who is in the playoffs gives a damn at the time about draft position and will act accordingly. What a crock. This has nothing to do with that. Everyone who is in the playoffs will do all that they can to win. Every fan will root for their team to win.

This has to do with the aftermath. The draft is to even the playing field and to give a hand up to lesser teams. And the handicap the better teams. If that is the goal then this is a lousy idea. It will give a hand up to a team that has an off week during their first series but was far better than the lower seed who got hot for a week and advanced before getting blown out.

It is not a huge deal, the difference between say 15 and 25 likely is not that huge in the draft. Still, it is not keeping with the goal of the draft. And to say what you did above, that it would encourage tanking or some such silly argument, is ludicrous.
I gotta disagree with you here, I'm not seeing anything in Jon's posts that implies that he thinks that any team would tank a playoff round to get a better draft position.

What I do see Jon implying here is that playoff performance rather than regular season performance is the true measure of the strength of a team. The playoffs are the most important games of the entire season, and if a team cruises through the regular season but can't play well in a best-of-seven series when it really counts, they're not the better team. I mean, how many President's Trophy winners have won the Stanley Cup in the last 10 years, and does anyone really think that they were better than the team that won the Cup that year? Nobody ever cares or even remembers who wins the President's Trophy, but everyone remembers who won the Stanley Cup.

I actually think the new draft system that they are voting on is more fair than the current one. After all, like everyone says here, the draft should help the weak and handicap the strong. A team that wins in the playoffs gains so much strength in money, publicity, and fan support that they should be handicapped in the draft.

nanzenkills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2007, 02:11 PM
  #30
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanzenkills View Post
I gotta disagree with you here, I'm not seeing anything in Jon's posts that implies that he thinks that any team would tank a playoff round to get a better draft position.

What I do see Jon implying here is that playoff performance rather than regular season performance is the true measure of the strength of a team. The playoffs are the most important games of the entire season, and if a team cruises through the regular season but can't play well in a best-of-seven series when it really counts, they're not the better team. I mean, how many President's Trophy winners have won the Stanley Cup in the last 10 years, and does anyone really think that they were better than the team that won the Cup that year? Nobody ever cares or even remembers who wins the President's Trophy, but everyone remembers who won the Stanley Cup.

I actually think the new draft system that they are voting on is more fair than the current one. After all, like everyone says here, the draft should help the weak and handicap the strong. A team that wins in the playoffs gains so much strength in money, publicity, and fan support that they should be handicapped in the draft.
I just see every team get hot and cold. The playoffs are as much about getting hot at the right time as talent. Only over 82 games as opposed to as few as 4 can you really get a picture of who is good and who is not. Four games is too small a sampling to draw any conclusion over. We are just going to disagree. But it might not matter. Someone on the main board said that the NHL is only applying this to the 4 in the conference finals. That I can live with just fine, it is just a small expansion of the SC winner always going last.

Jaded-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2007, 02:35 PM
  #31
Jussi
I am siege face
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 43,958
vCash: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanzenkills View Post
I completely agree with everything that is said here. I mean, come on, isn't the whole point of hockey to win the Stanley Cup?
Well not in Finland.

But at HFBoards it's better to get a low draft pick than to compete for the Stanley Cup.

Jussi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2007, 02:54 PM
  #32
nanzenkills
Registered User
 
nanzenkills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario, California
Country: United States
Posts: 2,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I just see every team get hot and cold. The playoffs are as much about getting hot at the right time as talent. Only over 82 games as opposed to as few as 4 can you really get a picture of who is good and who is not. Four games is too small a sampling to draw any conclusion over. We are just going to disagree. But it might not matter. Someone on the main board said that the NHL is only applying this to the 4 in the conference finals. That I can live with just fine, it is just a small expansion of the SC winner always going last.
I agree that teams do get hot and cold, but I also think a measure of how good a team is is whether they can rise to the occasion when the games really count, even if they are not playing their best. But yeah, we can certainly agree to disagree.

I wonder if the vote is going to go through. I hope it does, I think the small expansion still brings a little bit more fairness.

nanzenkills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2007, 02:58 PM
  #33
nanzenkills
Registered User
 
nanzenkills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario, California
Country: United States
Posts: 2,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Well not in Finland.
I know you're probably joking, but just in case you aren't, since we are talking about NHL teams and NHL draft picks, I figured everyone knew what I meant.

And come to think of it, don't the top Finnish-born players want to win a Stanley Cup someday anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
But at HFBoards it's better to get a low draft pick than to compete for the Stanley Cup.
Sadly, that seems to be true with some of the posters here. I don't mean Jaded-Fan, who has made some legitimate points that I don't agree with but can respect, and I don't necessarily mean people posting in this thread because it pertains only to playoff teams, but some of the people on the HF boards seem to wish that their favorite team can finish in last place every year just so they can keep getting top two draft picks.


Last edited by nanzenkills: 03-14-2007 at 03:07 PM.
nanzenkills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2007, 03:39 PM
  #34
timlap
Registered User
 
timlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 7,260
vCash: 500
Nice to see even Bob gets it wrong sometimes.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=200073&hubname=nhl

timlap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2007, 03:54 PM
  #35
Bird Law
Daisy's back.
 
Bird Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Country Roads
Country: United States
Posts: 72,824
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Bird Law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
What in the hell are you talking about?
Why the hell are you already so ****ing bent out of shape over my post to start YOUR post like this? You'd think I kicked your mother in her chest or something. Sheesh![/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
You are implying that teams, fans, or anyone who is in the playoffs gives a damn at the time about draft position and will act accordingly. What a crock. This has nothing to do with that. Everyone who is in the playoffs will do all that they can to win. Every fan will root for their team to win.
What the HELL are YOU talking about? Did you even read my post? I'm saying that if a team does well in the playoffs, the fan won't care that they dropped a few spots in the draft. I mean, if the Pens did great this year and made it all the way to the Cup Finals, would you be furious that you had to drop about 4 or 5 draft spots to 29th? If you would be upset about that, than why bother even watching a sport if all you care about is the ****ing draft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
This has to do with the aftermath. The draft is to even the playing field and to give a hand up to lesser teams. And the handicap the better teams.
And isn't the real judge of how good a team is if they can accomplish a lot in the playoffs -- the 2nd season? I mean, the regular season means jack ****. How often do we see the President's Trophy winner lose before they reach the finals? Maybe that team simply isn't built for the playoffs and a lower draft pick could help them find that player to bring them to the next level come playoff time.

Granted, they did well in the season, but I can absolutely, 100% guarantee that any REAL fan of the team would NOT be upset if they did better in the playoffs and got the lower draft pick. Again, I'm sorry that I have to reiterate that, but I take it that you haven't grasped my point or you just simply choose not to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
If that is the goal then this is a lousy idea. It will give a hand up to a team that has an off week during their first series but was far better than the lower seed who got hot for a week and advanced before getting blown out.
You keep rambling on about the team that chokes or whatnot but you still fail to realize that the team's fans would gladly take advancing in the playoffs further rather than losing in the first round and getting the higher pick. The team makes money, the fans are happy, etc. NO team would EVER choke in the 1st round to get a better pick. NONE. This is a business and if you're team advances in the playoffs, you get more money. So we can throw that idea out of the window before you even get started on it (I sense that that would be one of your points).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
It is not a huge deal, the difference between say 15 and 25 likely is not that huge in the draft. Still, it is not keeping with the goal of the draft. And to say what you did above, that it would encourage tanking or some such silly argument, is ludicrous.
The goal of the draft is to reward the teams that did worse over the year. Why in the world are the playoffs now all of a sudden excluded from the year? That makes no sense at all and I've often questioned why the draft hasn't been set up like the way that just got approved.

Again, for the umpteenth time, the goal of the team is to advance in the playoffs. They make more money, make their fans happier, etc. ANY real fan would give up those 5-10 spots in the draft for their team to advance a few rounds in the playoffs.

Anyone that wouldn't is not a fan of hockey and not someone I'd ever want being a fan of the sport.

Bird Law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2007, 03:55 PM
  #36
Bird Law
Daisy's back.
 
Bird Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Country Roads
Country: United States
Posts: 72,824
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Bird Law
Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap View Post
Nice to see even Bob gets it wrong sometimes.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=200073&hubname=nhl
Bah, that's dumb. It should be every team. Makes no sense it's only the final four.

Bird Law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2007, 04:05 PM
  #37
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
Bah, that's dumb. It should be every team. Makes no sense it's only the final four.
We disagree. I actually have no problem with this version.

Jaded-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.