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05-12-2014, 10:56 PM
  #51
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Still strange to me how MT and JJ did not play him a lot.
Got to to be attitude, but at some point you have to play your best players even if you don't like their work ethic. I think they took the wrong route with Beaulieu. He can coast in the AHL, but he'll get pushed in the NHL and he'll have a lot of guys to push him to get in shape.

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05-12-2014, 10:57 PM
  #52
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Still strange to me how MT and JJ did not play him a lot.
Well, 10 mins. is fine for a rookie. And it's better than 10 mins. of Murray anyways.

If it means that Subban is playing more, I'm fine with it.

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05-12-2014, 11:00 PM
  #53
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Got to to be attitude, but at some point you have to play your best players even if you don't like their work ethic. I think they took the wrong route with Beaulieu. He can coast in the AHL, but he'll get pushed in the NHL and he'll have a lot of guys to push him to get in shape.
Heh, if I had Beaulieu's talent and certainty of playing in the NHL, I wouldn't even play in Hamilton. The guy had nothing to learn there.

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05-12-2014, 11:23 PM
  #54
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Heh, if I had Beaulieu's talent and certainty of playing in the NHL, I wouldn't even play in Hamilton. The guy had nothing to learn there.
Quite the contrary, AHL was critical to NBs development. We saw a little bit of that tonight.

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05-12-2014, 11:29 PM
  #55
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Quite the contrary, AHL was critical to NBs development. We saw a little bit of that tonight.
It was last year.

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05-12-2014, 11:35 PM
  #56
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The only thing I wished I could have seen is Beaulieu drop his gloves vs Campbell and lay him out. I don't think Campbell knows Beaulieu can actually handle himself in a fight.

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05-12-2014, 11:39 PM
  #57
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Quite the contrary, AHL was critical to NBs development. We saw a little bit of that tonight.
Exactly said it before N B is one of those kids who play to the level of talent around him.
He looked the very same tonight as he did the last regular season game which was very good.
Congratulations to Mr. Weaver for taking the kid in hand before puck drop nice touch of leadership from a rental?

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05-12-2014, 11:42 PM
  #58
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I gotta say. Subban-Beaulieu pairing on the power play is as sexy as ever <3

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05-12-2014, 11:46 PM
  #59
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I can't believe it took so long for him to get in the lineup, but he looked great out there tonight in a game where we were facing elimination.

There's no doubt that he's got a full time spot on this roster next year. None.

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05-13-2014, 12:06 AM
  #60
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Great game for him tonight. I anticipated some mistakes but they never came.

From very early on he was on you could see the difference. In his own zone, gets to the puck first, outlet pass and scoring chance against the Bruins. No fumbling around, no getting hemmed into our own zone, no desperate icing attempt. Just good puck movement and transition.

Absolutely outstanding game from him tonight and he made a world of difference out there. Here's hoping for another mistake free game but even if he does screw up, he's still a positive difference out there.

Only question is why it took MT so long to figure out what everyone else already knew. How he couldn't see that Murray was poison is beyond me.
Yeah I have no idea why they'd play our biggest meanest D man against the Bruins. We won the first game with him and lost a nail biter the next where the Bs only scored one goal. He also happened to destroy everything in site. It's not like we're talking Pat Traverse here.

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Still strange to me how MT and JJ did not play him a lot.
I don't think it's strange at all to play a rookie D sparingly in a huge game when he hasn't played in the bigs in months

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05-13-2014, 12:14 AM
  #61
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Yeah I have no idea why they'd play our biggest meanest D man against the Bruins. We won the first game with him and lost a nail biter the next where the Bs only scored one goal. He also happened to destroy everything in site. It's not like we're talking Pat Traverse here.
Note how the puck stayed in our zone despite all his crazy hits? That is more important than the hit.

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I don't think it's strange at all to play a rookie D sparingly in a huge game when he hasn't played in the bigs in months
There's no reason for him to not have played a game in months. He should have been a regular on our team by season's end.

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05-13-2014, 12:18 AM
  #62
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Yeah I have no idea why they'd play our biggest meanest D man against the Bruins. We won the first game with him and lost a nail biter the next where the Bs only scored one goal. He also happened to destroy everything in site. It's not like we're talking Pat Traverse here.
You're right. We should've played Murray tonight. Clearly they were afraid of him and being destroyed by him. So afraid of him in fact that they skated circles around him to make sure he couldn't hit them.

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05-13-2014, 12:20 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Note how the puck stayed in our zone despite all his crazy hits? That is more important than the hit.



There's no reason for him to not have played a game in months. He should have been a regular on our team by season's end.
Agreed. Beaulieu has been ready for a long time. Anybody with an once of hockey knowledge could see that. So it's either the Habs have a bad eye for talent or them punishing him somehow.

Also I was looking at his demeanor on the bench tonight, the guy has such swager, you can see this guy is gonna love playing the Bruins.

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05-13-2014, 12:26 AM
  #64
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Would be nice to see him get a shift on the 1st pp unit with Subban.

Markov hasn't been very creative.

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05-13-2014, 12:27 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Note how the puck stayed in our zone despite all his crazy hits? That is more important than the hit.



There's no reason for him to not have played a game in months. He should have been a regular on our team by season's end.
yeah but after those 2 games Murray was a +/- 0 and his one minus was from the
OT winner which wasn't his fault at all.

No one's saying he's a top pairing guy but in a series against the Bs can we really be bewildered at the idea of Murray playing? Ohashi put it brilliantly in the post I already quoted. You can't underestimate the effect his physicality plays. There's definitely a trade off with his speed and the issues that creates but it's not like he was an abject failure.

And there were times even tonight where the Bs bottled us up in our zone with no Murray to be found. Boston's kind of good at that.

No need to rehash NB's alleged off ice tantrums but obviously there was a reason besides his on ice play why he was sent down.

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You're right. We should've played Murray tonight. Clearly they were afraid of him and being destroyed by him. So afraid of him in fact that they skated circles around him to make sure he couldn't hit them.
who said we should've played him tonight? I wanted Beaulieu in the roster tonight myself.

all i was saying is you were scratching your head as to why Murray played and to me it made perfect sense at that point in the series to play Murray. he's a controversial player here but you can't pretend he brings nothing.

if it wasn't for one goofy bounce in OT that had nothing to do with him, then there wouldn't be any of these obligatory potshots at MT's judgement.

and like I already said, we were bottled up in our zone tonight without Murray's help as well.


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05-13-2014, 12:33 AM
  #66
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That block. It was beautiful.

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05-13-2014, 12:38 AM
  #67
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who said we should've played him tonight? I wanted Beaulieu in the roster tonight myself.

all i was saying is you were scratching your head as to why Murray played and to me it made perfect sense at that point in the series to play Murray. he's a controversial player here but you can't pretend he brings nothing.

if it wasn't for one goofy bounce in OT that had nothing to do with him, then there wouldn't be any of these obligatory potshots at MT's judgement.

and like I already said, we were bottled up in our zone tonight without Murray's help as well.
Not just for that goal, everytime Murray is on the ice, Habs gets stock in ther zone forever. It's a struggle for him to make the most simple play.

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05-13-2014, 12:56 AM
  #68
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If u would rather murray than beaulieu than you arent watching the games. We dont need physicality against the bruins, we need speed. They cant handle it when we start skating

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05-13-2014, 12:56 AM
  #69
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You're right. We should've played Murray tonight. Clearly they were afraid of him and being destroyed by him. So afraid of him in fact that they skated circles around him to make sure he couldn't hit them.
i'm sorry. looking back on my first reply to you, i didn't like my tone. it was adversarial. i'm just sick of the MT bashing at this point. he's been doing a fine job at adapting and is nowhere near as stubborn as The Count was.

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Not just for that goal, everytime Murray is on the ice, Habs gets stock in ther zone forever. It's a struggle for him to make the most simple play.
but like I said that goal was a goofy bounce and had nothing to do with Murray.

Murray is an adventure in his own end. No one's denying that. All I'm saying is that putting in Murray in Game 3 wasn't exactly an eye rolling 'how could you do that' mistake from MT. Coaches will most likely go to their vets come playoff time over rookies who've barely played 10 NHL games.

Yet MT still ended up putting in NB and it worked. But instead of 'glad MT put him in' you get 'why he didn't do it sooner?'. A lot of coaches wouldn't roll the dice on NB but MT did.

It's just smacks of scraping the barrel of MT bashing when he's been doing just fine these playoffs.

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05-13-2014, 12:58 AM
  #70
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yeah but after those 2 games Murray was a +/- 0 and his one minus was from the
OT winner which wasn't his fault at all.
The OT winner was partly his fault. Fraser was his man, that he let go from the back of the net to the front and hit that loose puck in. Even Murray admitted he lost coverage of his man. So ya, it was his fault.

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No one's saying he's a top pairing guy but in a series against the Bs can we really be bewildered at the idea of Murray playing? Ohashi put it brilliantly in the post I already quoted. You can't underestimate the effect his physicality plays. There's definitely a trade off with his speed and the issues that creates but it's not like he was an abject failure.
Nobody is underestimating the physical effect of a player. That player however, needs to be good, and Murray simply is not. He's a terrible player, and being physical will NEVER overvalue being terrible.

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And there were times even tonight where the Bs bottled us up in our zone with no Murray to be found. Boston's kind of good at that.
For sure, it will happen in every game, to every player. But when it happens every game to the same player versus the weakest opposition regardless of whether you get defensive zone starts or offensive ones, then it becomes a problem not a random event.
And we're not talking about spending one shift in your zone, we're talking about the majority of his ES time. So no, it's not an ''once in a while'' scenario.
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No need to rehash NB's alleged off ice tantrums but obviously there was a reason besides his on ice play why he was sent down.
No, there is no good reason. Not when your plan is to make a run for it, and when you go after Vanek at the deadline, it's not so you can be eliminated in the 2nd round. You don't need to discipline Beaulieu into possibly not playing again for the Habs during this year. He's a 21yo rookie, and we have a pretty strong team with a good amount of leadership, there's no way he walks in here with his head high.

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05-13-2014, 01:10 AM
  #71
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If u would rather murray than beaulieu than you arent watching the games. We dont need physicality against the bruins, we need speed. They cant handle it when we start skating
Pretty much, plus we handled the physical load just fine tonight with Murray out of the lineup and Beaulieu was WAY better than Murray has been. We actually had puck movement on the third pairing.

Murray hits, that's all. He can't skate, keep up with the play, move the puck, he can't do anything useful really. It was fine to put up with in the regular season if he played minimal minutes, but all minutes are valuable in the playoffs. Beaulieu is better than Murray.

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05-13-2014, 01:18 AM
  #72
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The OT winner was partly his fault. Fraser was his man, that he let go from the back of the net to the front and hit that loose puck in. Even Murray admitted he lost coverage of his man. So ya, it was his fault.


Nobody is underestimating the physical effect of a player. That player however, needs to be good, and Murray simply is not. He's a terrible player, and being physical will NEVER overvalue being terrible.


For sure, it will happen in every game, to every player. But when it happens every game to the same player versus the weakest opposition regardless of whether you get defensive zone starts or offensive ones, then it becomes a problem not a random event.
And we're not talking about spending one shift in your zone, we're talking about the majority of his ES time. So no, it's not an ''once in a while'' scenario.

No, there is no good reason. Not when your plan is to make a run for it, and when you go after Vanek at the deadline, it's not so you can be eliminated in the 2nd round. You don't need to discipline Beaulieu into possibly not playing again for the Habs during this year. He's a 21yo rookie, and we have a pretty strong team with a good amount of leadership, there's no way he walks in here with his head high.
yeah but Murray does come out of his first game in the line up a +1. You're not going to bench him after that. That OT winner, fine he blows coverage but he's far from the reason that goal goes in. And up until that point the Bs haven't scored a goal and we outplayed the Bs.

Like the Hammer/Spacek duo. They were horrendous in their own zone but bottom line they kept the puck out of the net.

If Murray's more mobile then he's a top 4 D man. Cube need to be replaced and MT went for a vet instead of a rookie. One that's one of the most intimidating players in the game. That can effect a whole team's play and give them more confidence. Just because you can't measure it with stats doesn't mean it's not true and it also doesn't mean that it'll work positively all the time.

I think I need to be clear that I'm not saying Murray is better than Beaulieu. I think that much should be obvious. All I'm saying is that going with Murray made sense and it worked at first. Boston's more physical than fast.

obviously something off the ice happened with Beaulieu in order to be sent down. he was playing fantastic. and why shouldn't a young kid be made to learn a few lessons if he's got an alleged attitude problem?

Why are some still insisting on this bumbling portrait of MT and management? That's my bottom line. I'm not denying Murray's inadequacies at all.

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05-13-2014, 07:40 AM
  #73
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Great game for him tonight. I anticipated some mistakes but they never came.

From very early on he was on you could see the difference. In his own zone, gets to the puck first, outlet pass and scoring chance against the Bruins. No fumbling around, no getting hemmed into our own zone, no desperate icing attempt. Just good puck movement and transition.
I genuinely don't think you can understate how important Beaulieu's presence was on that third pair last night. Instead of being a brutally exploitable matchup for the Bruins, as it was with Bouillon and especially Murray, the Bruins really couldn't make any headway against it. We had three reliable defensive pairings for the first time in the series last night and it paid off in spades. That long outlet pass by NB to MaxPac -- neither Bouillon nor Murray could have made that play. Period. Yes it took a lucky bounce to still end up on Max's stick, but we would never have been in position to get that bounce had either of the anchors been on the ice in NB's place.

You can still see that NB is raw in his positioning, but he's got great speed, good vision, good passing ability, and doesn't give up on any plays. That speed mattered last night as we really outskated the B's up & down the entire lineup last night. That's what we have to do to win game 7.

Please, MT, in the name of the Richards, don't screw this up for G7!

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05-13-2014, 07:57 AM
  #74
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That long outlet pass by NB to MaxPac -- neither Bouillon nor Murray could have made that play. Period. Yes it took a lucky bounce to still end up on Max's stick...
Yes, it was incredibly fortunate that Eriksson swatted the puck almost directly to Pacioretty. Not even Beaulieu could do that twice. Period.

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05-13-2014, 08:06 AM
  #75
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Yes, it was incredibly fortunate that Eriksson swatted the puck almost directly to Pacioretty. Not even Beaulieu could do that twice. Period.
Watch that play again, especially from the on-ice angle. NB isn't just mindlessly dumping the puck out of the zone like FB & DM would have done (check that; DM wouldn't have had the puck in the first place). His head is up and the moment he spots Max out at center ice he makes the pass toward him. If it hadn't been deflected it was going straight to Max anyway, so the end result was the same.

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