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Old
05-14-2014, 01:06 PM
  #826
Curufinwe
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Anaheim are a cup contender right now despite not having any elite defensive forwards.

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05-14-2014, 01:07 PM
  #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
how long was Crosby out? a ton longer then Richards was(if you are referring to the Steckel hit). I guess you have never had a concussion before have you? it totally ****s you up both mentally and physically.
Yeah fine Gagne was done. whatever. still doesn't make it right they treated him like garbage. Trading for Mez was necessary because they had nothing in the system to put into the top 6 but that is another argument.
The jury is out on whether they are closer or not. No denying they are set up for the future well or at the very least are heading in the right direction in that regard.
I've had two concussions and know how debilitating they can be. I've walked into rooms not knowing how i got there, I have stood in front of the refrigerator door wide open completley forgetting what i was looking for. Never once was my ability to sprint or work at a high anerobic level impacted.

Treating gagne like garbage? what were they suppose to do. Cater to his needs at the expense of the team? getting rid of gagne was a great move, and we paid him a lot of money and we owe him nothing in terms of loyalty . There is no loyalty in sports. It is a performance based business.

I do think we are on the right track and the richards carter trades really gave us a lot of assets to work with. We just need to decide when to make a run for the championship. Now or 4 years from now with our 3 dmen are factors.

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Old
05-14-2014, 01:11 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Anaheim are a cup contender right now despite not having any elite defensive forwards.
And they still have to win nine more games to be considered a cup winner, no?

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Old
05-14-2014, 01:13 PM
  #829
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And hopefully they will. They're a much less annoying prospect as champion than Mon/Bos, NYR, Chicago or LA.

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05-14-2014, 01:15 PM
  #830
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No one is being unrealistic about the teams situation other than you. You live in a world where richards and carter are good enough to carry us to a stanley cup , and that just isnt the case. No one is badmouthing those two either. Carter has always been a great two way player and I feel like he is finally getting his due to the olympics and stanley cup. was a great player one of the very best but he has fallen off more than any player in recent memory . He and heatly are in the same boat .
If I'm unrealistic then so is everyone else who posted the same thing I'm saying now, back in 2011, and so is every hockey expert who said the same thing back in 2011. Interestingly, hindsight has proven us right.

I have never, ever said either would/could "carry" us to a Cup. That's a strawman you inserted. They were both pieces to a puzzle, like Pronger. Remove those pieces and the puzzle isn't complete anymore.

Guess what? The same thing happened in LA. They became major pieces in a puzzle, like Quick and Doughty. If Richards isn't in LA they don't make the playoffs or win a Cup. If LA doesn't get Carter, their offense never opens up and they don't make the playoffs or win a Cup. Either of Doughty or Quick goes down, same thing happens. They were vital pieces for getting us into the playoffs in 2010, and then the non-injured one was a vital piece for getting us to the Finals.

We traded those vital pieces for unproven youth. The team took a step back. That was recognized by literally everyone looking at the situation without homerism. Reality has proven that in the end; and with the D situation, we aren't really even at the point where we can be expected to take steps forward yet.

So at the end of the day, two moves that took us further from contention in the short term in the HOPE that we can compete again in the future flat out simply are not better moves than the two that won us two Cups and defined the franchise.

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05-14-2014, 01:16 PM
  #831
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I've had two concussions and know how debilitating they can be. I've walked into rooms not knowing how i got there, I have stood in front of the refrigerator door wide open completley forgetting what i was looking for. Never once was my ability to sprint or work at a high anerobic level impacted.

Treating gagne like garbage? what were they suppose to do. Cater to his needs at the expense of the team? getting rid of gagne was a great move, and we paid him a lot of money and we owe him nothing in terms of loyalty . There is no loyalty in sports. It is a performance based business.

I do think we are on the right track and the richards carter trades really gave us a lot of assets to work with. We just need to decide when to make a run for the championship. Now or 4 years from now with our 3 dmen are factors.
I didn't read anything after that. If you don't think a concussion affects you physically/or in that context I don't know what to say.

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Old
05-14-2014, 01:18 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Anaheim are a cup contender right now despite not having any elite defensive forwards.
Are they? I don't remember many people picking them to win the West or the Cup coming in. They still have to win this series to really get close.

The trend is so well entrenched in the last decade that, at this point, it would be an outlier for them to win the Cup. Washington doing the same in 09-10 would've been too.

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05-14-2014, 01:23 PM
  #833
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I'm rooting for Anaheim. I liked them when they were the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, and I'm a Getzlaf/perry fan.

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05-14-2014, 01:24 PM
  #834
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05-14-2014, 01:26 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If I'm unrealistic then so is everyone else who posted the same thing I'm saying now, back in 2011, and so is every hockey expert who said the same thing back in 2011. Interestingly, hindsight has proven us right.
Most of the hockey "experts" also predicted the Flyers would lose to the Pens, but that we would beat Devils in the second round. I guess we weren't Cup contenders in mid April, but we were by the end of April.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/2012.../experts-picks

http://espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/2012.../experts-picks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Are they? I don't remember many people picking them to win the West or the Cup coming in. They still have to win this series to really get close.
No, the second best team in the league with a great mix of forwards and defensemen aren't Cup contenders because of your silly little Selke obsession.

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05-14-2014, 01:28 PM
  #836
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Most of the hockey "experts" also predicted the Flyers would lose to the Pens, but that we would beat Devils in the second round. I guess they considered us Cup contenders at that point.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/2012.../experts-picks

http://espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/2012.../experts-picks
ESPN always picks the Pens because they're ignorant. That's not a very good indicator here.

The real hockey people didn't have us pegged to win a Cup in 2011-12. The realistic posters here didn't either. We were right, as much as it blows.

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Old
05-14-2014, 01:31 PM
  #837
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The realistic posters here didn't have us pegged to win one in 2011, either. Not after Pronger went down. Not with a shaky goaltending situation.

Even though we had a former Selke candidate.

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05-14-2014, 01:36 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If I'm unrealistic then so is everyone else who posted the same thing I'm saying now, back in 2011, and so is every hockey expert who said the same thing back in 2011. Interestingly, hindsight has proven us right.

I have never, ever said either would/could "carry" us to a Cup. That's a strawman you inserted. They were both pieces to a puzzle, like Pronger. Remove those pieces and the puzzle isn't complete anymore.

Guess what? The same thing happened in LA. They became major pieces in a puzzle, like Quick and Doughty. If Richards isn't in LA they don't make the playoffs or win a Cup. If LA doesn't get Carter, their offense never opens up and they don't make the playoffs or win a Cup. Either of Doughty or Quick goes down, same thing happens. They were vital pieces for getting us into the playoffs in 2010, and then the non-injured one was a vital piece for getting us to the Finals.

We traded those vital pieces for unproven youth. The team took a step back. That was recognized by literally everyone looking at the situation without homerism. Reality has proven that in the end; and with the D situation, we aren't really even at the point where we can be expected to take steps forward yet.

So at the end of the day, two moves that took us further from contention in the short term in the HOPE that we can compete again in the future flat out simply are not better moves than the two that won us two Cups and defined the franchise.

Hfboards had a mixed view on the trades. Other message boards i post at with more a local flavor were elated by the trades. I think few people were able to analyze the trade at level of higher thinking that involves removing oneself from the initial emotion attached to the trade. You keep saying we took a step back but we did better the next year in the playoffs , so i disagree with that. We traded for some unknown qunatities but those unknown quantities sure proved themselves right away. I chalk that up to scouting , I feel like homer knew exactly who he wanted to acquire for those two guys and if rumors of him packaging them both to cbj in a bigger deal involving johansen well then homer was god damn Nostradamus.



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I didn't read anything after that. If you don't think a concussion affects you physically/or in that context I don't know what to say.

That's ok. What can i say my concussions had no impact on my fitness level. it still effects me to this day in terms of my concentration level but that is it.

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05-14-2014, 01:37 PM
  #839
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The way I look at those trades is simple. Pronger was breaking down, and we weren't winning a cup with Richards and Carter without a number one defenseman. Instead of keeping them here and having the basis of our core older as we waited for a new #1 defenseman we traded them to get younger. We still lack the Pronger replacement, but the youth was much needed.

I'm not sure what people think would have happened if we kept those two. We certainly wouldn't have a Cup anyway

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05-14-2014, 01:40 PM
  #840
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It might have forced us to keep Bob and not sign Bryz to that joke of a contract, but I doubt Bob turns into a Vezina winner here. Sometimes players only flourish when they get a fresh start.

And Pronger's freak injury wouldn't have happened in that game against Toronto since that was a one in a million chance... maybe we shouldn't have traded them. Or both of them.

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05-14-2014, 01:41 PM
  #841
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That's ok. What can i say my concussions had no impact on my fitness level. it still effects me to this day in terms of my concentration level but that is it.
Well then your experience is a rarity. It does apply in the vast majority of cases regardless of your experience. Concussion have short term and even long term effects on motor function, stuff as simple as walking in some cases. Look it up if you don't believe me.

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05-14-2014, 01:48 PM
  #842
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Well then your experience is a rarity. It does apply in the vast majority of cases regardless of your experience. Concussion have short term and even long term effects on motor function, stuff as simple as walking in some cases. Look it up if you don't believe me.
The brain is a compartmentalized organ. A concussion can impact one area of the brain and leave another part of the brain completely intact.

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05-14-2014, 01:49 PM
  #843
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Could a 31st NHL team be coming to Seattle soon?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=719113

An expansion draft would be one way to get rid of Vinny's contract.

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05-14-2014, 01:49 PM
  #844
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JTown no offense to you, but I doubt you are exerting yourself/taking the abuse to the degree that a professional hockey player would. A concussion can absolutely kill in that regard.

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05-14-2014, 01:51 PM
  #845
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Well, this thread took off.

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Old
05-14-2014, 01:52 PM
  #846
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Could a 31st NHL team be coming to Seattle soon?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=719113

An expansion draft would be one way to get rid of Vinny's contract.
They'd need 2 teams in the West to even it out to 32. Add Seattle and Quebec (Nordiques) and push the Red Wings back to the west and you're golden.

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05-14-2014, 01:52 PM
  #847
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JTown no offense to you, but I doubt you are exerting yourself/taking the abuse to the degree that a professional hockey player would. A concussion can absolutely kill in that regard.
i won't comment on my athletic prowess, but ill say just look at concussions before nfl and nhl protocols. Guys use to rack em up and play again. Ill never forget aikman getting two concussions against the eagles and still playing.

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05-14-2014, 01:54 PM
  #848
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They'd need 2 teams in the West to even it out to 32. Add Seattle and Quebec (Nordiques) and push the Red Wings back to the west and you're golden.
Why can't they have 16 in the East in 15 in the West?

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05-14-2014, 01:54 PM
  #849
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Why can't they have 16 in the East in 15 in the West?
Wouldn't scheduling an ODD number of teams be more of a pain in the ass?

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Old
05-14-2014, 01:57 PM
  #850
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Could a 31st NHL team be coming to Seattle soon?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=719113

An expansion draft would be one way to get rid of Vinny's contract.
It could take awhile. The new building won't be built until an NBA team is first secured. They won't build it with just the NHL as a tenant.

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Chris Hansen and Steve Ballmer have agreed to partially fund a new NBA and NHL complex, which is currently undergoing an environmental review. The memorandum of understanding, approved by the Seattle City and King County councils, allows construction to begin after the environmental review is complete and an NBA team is acquired. City leaders and Hansen have indicated they are not willing right now to renegotiate the deal to allow an NHL team to prompt construction

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...eting/9055393/

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