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3/14/07 GDT: Nashville Predators @ The Evil Empire

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Old
03-14-2007, 09:50 PM
  #101
SmokeyClause
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Don't bother with Gnashville. His baseless (I CANNOT emphasize this enough) rants on the Preds owner are about as annoying as his choice of timing. He doesn't know which way is up when it comes to what's actually going on behind the scenes, yet he screams the sky is falling as if he's got a fly on the wall in Leipold's office.

As for the game, I didn't expect much less. We are simply missing too much. We don't have the catalysts for our top three lines (Forsberg, Sullivan, and Hartnell) and are missing a few others. There's not a team in the league that can have the most potent player from all of their top three lines removed (and a few other quality players) and expect to compete.

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Old
03-14-2007, 10:00 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post

As for the game, I didn't expect much less. We are simply missing too much. We don't have the catalysts for our top three lines (Forsberg, Sullivan, and Hartnell) and are missing a few others. There's not a team in the league that can have the most potent player from all of their top three lines removed (and a few other quality players) and expect to compete.
yeah,but the Wings are just as banged up though as well.

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Old
03-14-2007, 10:20 PM
  #103
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I'm not worried right now. The past 24 hours sucked, but I'm still optimistic in the big picture. We should have Forsberg and Sully back and will probably have Hartnell, Nichol and Erat back for the playoffs. Those guys playing at 75% + playoff intensity is a lot better than the team we're playing with now.

Here are a few of examples of why I'm not worried...

1) 1/23/06 - 1/24/06: Preds sweep home and home with Detroit. We were all euphoric.
Nashville goes 4-7-1 in their next 12 games.
Detroit goes 15-2-1 in their next 18 (including a sweep of their own over us...)
That sweep was meaningless.

2) 4/6/06 - 4/21/06
Nashville goes 7-0 (6-0 to end the season and they win game 1 of the SJ series).
San Jose wins the next 4, outscoring the Preds 14-6.

3) 03/04 Calgary
Calgary finishes the season 4-4 and lose 2 of their first 3 to Vancouver in the first round.
They advance to the finals.

4) 05/06 Edmonton
Edmonton finished last season at 7-8 in their last 15, lose the first game against Detroit.
They beat the Mighty Wings and advance to the finals.

5) 05/06 Detroit
25-4-5 in their last 34 games. POINTS IN 30 OF THEIR LAST 34 GAMES! Win the Presidents' Trophy, win the central, number one seed in the west. If the Preds had gone on a 55 points of 68 possible run to sew up the central to end this season, people here would be beyond giddy.
The outcome of that greatness down the stretch? They played one more playoff game than Nashville played before losing in the first round to the 8 seed.

Am I concerned about our health? yes.
Am I concerned about developing team/line cohesion when Forsberg, Sullivan, Hartnell, Erat, Nichol return? Yes.
Am I concerned about Zids and Vish being on the ice in the playoffs? yes.
Am I concerned whether Trotz is the guy to lead them on a successful playoff run? somewhat.

But, it all doesn't matter until mid-April. Worse teams have made a run. Worse goalies than Vokoun have gotten hot and sparked a run. Vokoun and Mason could give up 8 goals a game for the rest of the season (outside of the one game we need to clinch the playoff berth ) and it doesn't matter, we need them to get hot in mid-April, not mid-March. It's a tough leap of faith to believe that the team we're seeing will turn it all around in a month, but you have to find another gear(s) to make a playoff run whether you finish 7-8 or 25-4-5.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to make sure the wife properly hid the neck ties and sharp objects, and have a drink.

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Old
03-14-2007, 10:40 PM
  #104
irisheyes555
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have a couple. drinking isn't the answer, but it does make you forget the question.

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:29 PM
  #105
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Thanks to Vopatsrash for helping me step away from the ledge. This reminds me of the feeling I had during the horrible start of the 03-04 season when things looked bad on the surface but you could see that the opportunity to be something was there.

I think this team has the ability to take it all this year from the 1st or 4th position. I also think we still have a shot at 1st overall but the important thing is getting healthy. If I have my really optimistic hat on I say that this has the chance to make the Preds better in the end by increasing the responsibility level of players like Rads and TooToo (and even Abid and Peverly if we get an injury during the season), resting players like Sully and Forsberg, and forcing Trotz to reconsider the PK-Forsberg-Erat line. I could even argue that being a 4th takes a load of pressure off of a young and inexperienced team.

It sucks to continue to get our ass kicked by the big brother up north but I like to think it will make overtaking them all the sweeter. Here's hoping that takes weeks not months or years to accomplish.

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Old
03-15-2007, 03:12 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz615 View Post
yeah,but the Wings are just as banged up though as well.

Let's be honest though. The quality of loss for the preds is higher than the Red Wings. The only loss on your team that can compare with forsberg,Erat, and sully is zetterberg. Losing Harntell is like you guys losing Holmstrom.( Though i give Holmstrom the edge) Clearly, Franzen are having decent years but they are nowhere near the aforementioned guys level. this might sound like an excuse but just imagine if you guys lost Datzyuk,holmstrom and Lang(to some extent) to injuries right now. That would decimate your team. We basically have only one legit scoring line now with Arnott, Dumont and Radu. A month ago we had three. That being said if we do get everybody back and playing well for the playoffs I am not concerned. If they don't all come back well obviosuly we can't beat the elite teams with the team we have right now so we shall see what happens.

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Old
03-15-2007, 03:37 PM
  #107
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Let's be honest though. The quality of loss for the preds is higher than the Red Wings. The only loss on your team that can compare with forsberg,Erat, and sully is zetterberg. Losing Harntell is like you guys losing Holmstrom.( Though i give Holmstrom the edge) Clearly, Franzen are having decent years but they are nowhere near the aforementioned guys level. this might sound like an excuse but just imagine if you guys lost Datzyuk,holmstrom and Lang(to some extent) to injuries right now. That would decimate your team. We basically have only one legit scoring line now with Arnott, Dumont and Radu. A month ago we had three. That being said if we do get everybody back and playing well for the playoffs I am not concerned. If they don't all come back well obviosuly we can't beat the elite teams with the team we have right now so we shall see what happens.
Bertuzzi.

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Old
03-15-2007, 03:45 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Cyberslacker View Post
Bertuzzi.
Yeah, losing him was a huge blow to you guys...

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Old
03-15-2007, 03:46 PM
  #109
predfan24
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Originally Posted by Cyberslacker View Post
Bertuzzi.

Ha I knew someone would bring up bertuzzi. he hasn't even played with you guys yet. You have no idea how effective he will be coming off injury. Even if he does come back healthy go ask Canuck fans This is not the same Bertuzzi pre lockout. Pre lockout Bertuzzi > Erat,sully,hartnell. Nowadays not so much. That said I wouldn't be suprised if he came in and had sucess. Look at Calder, players seem to produce for the wings no matter who they are. BUT bertuzzi has to prove himself first. Right now he is a question mark.

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Old
03-15-2007, 04:11 PM
  #110
silkyjohnson50
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Ha I knew someone would bring up bertuzzi. he hasn't even played with you guys yet. You have no idea how effective he will be coming off injury. Even if he does come back healthy go ask Canuck fans This is not the same Bertuzzi pre lockout. Pre lockout Bertuzzi > Erat,sully,hartnell. Nowadays not so much. That said I wouldn't be suprised if he came in and had sucess. Look at Calder, players seem to produce for the wings no matter who they are. BUT bertuzzi has to prove himself first. Right now he is a question mark.
Why is that funny? Is Bertuzzi a Red Wing or not? He's as much a question mark as Forsberg is. Bertuzzi will be in the lineup next week.

And you can talk about him not being the same player post lockout, but guess what, last season(post lockout) Bertuzzi had as many points(71) as anyone on Nashville had. So if you don't think he is an impact player you are being foolish.

Zetterberg, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Franzen, and Markov

vs.

Forsberg, Sullivan, Erat, Hartnell, and Nichol.


In no way is that uneven the way you guys are trying to make it look.

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Old
03-15-2007, 04:55 PM
  #111
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I agree actually, in that Forsberg and Bert are new mostly unkown quantities that are roughly comparable in terms of talking injuries and impact on the team.

I happen to think that missing Sully and Hartnell have a much higher impact on our team than is apparent on its face. Still, we were in both games and ultimately outplayed both games. Fully healthy, either of these teams could win against the other in a 7 game series.

And a final thought: Bert's addition to the lineup may not make the Wings better, at least in the short run. I think it is difficult to insert a big new piece into the lineup (not just because of our Foppa experience) and have instant success. The Wings will need to work him in prior to the playoffs but I could see them struggling during a few games as they adjust.

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Old
03-15-2007, 05:14 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Why is that funny? Is Bertuzzi a Red Wing or not? He's as much a question mark as Forsberg is. Bertuzzi will be in the lineup next week.

And you can talk about him not being the same player post lockout, but guess what, last season(post lockout) Bertuzzi had as many points(71) as anyone on Nashville had. So if you don't think he is an impact player you are being foolish.

Zetterberg, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Franzen, and Markov

vs.

Forsberg, Sullivan, Erat, Hartnell, and Nichol.


In no way is that uneven the way you guys are trying to make it look.
Bertuzzi is a much, much larger question mark as he's played 1/6 the games Forsberg has. And all but two of the games did he even look like a good player. He was a shell of his former self before he decide to sit out a while. Forsberg isn't as good as he was, but he was a much, much more effective player than Bertuzzi in the games they've played. Believe me, unlike you or any other Red Wing fan on this board, I've seen Bert play 6 times this year. Now, he may have a resurgence, but I think the likelihood of getting quality play from Forsberg is MUCH higher than from Bertuzzi.

Even then, you have two top 2 liners in Zetts and Bert compared with 4 for the Preds in Forsberg, Sullivan, Erat, and Hartnell. Players like Franzen and Markov, while quality, don't bridge that gap. We've lost arguably the best player from each of our 3 scoring lines.

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Old
03-15-2007, 05:57 PM
  #113
predfan24
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Why is that funny? Is Bertuzzi a Red Wing or not? He's as much a question mark as Forsberg is. Bertuzzi will be in the lineup next week.

And you can talk about him not being the same player post lockout, but guess what, last season(post lockout) Bertuzzi had as many points(71) as anyone on Nashville had. So if you don't think he is an impact player you are being foolish.

Zetterberg, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Franzen, and Markov

vs.

Forsberg, Sullivan, Erat, Hartnell, and Nichol.


In no way is that uneven the way you guys are trying to make it look.


I don't care how many points he had you ask most canucks fans and they will tell you he was terrible last year. He was a big reason they underachieved so bad. I'm not saying he can't be an impact player, but he has to prove himself again. Forsberg is still much more proven this year and last than Bertuzzi. Plus he has the advantage of already playing with the team and getting comfortable with the guys. By the time Bertuzzi is back who knows if he will mesh with the team. he certainly won't have much time to do it. Face it, he is a huge question mark.


I give you zetterberg. The other two are good role players but aren't impact players. Markov is a good dman but your blueline is still damn good without him. Detroit fans can try to twist it anyway they want to but the bottom line is the players that are out for us hurt us more than their injuries hurt them.


Now I'm not saying if we are healthy we would walk all over detroit. They could still beat us easily. They have a great team and if both tams were healthy and met in the Po's it would be a great series.

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Old
03-15-2007, 06:01 PM
  #114
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I don't care how many points he had you ask most canucks fans and they will tell you he was terrible last year. He was a big reason they underachieved so bad. I'm not saying he can't be an impact player, but he has to prove himself again. Forsberg is still much more proven this year and last than Bertuzzi. Plus he has the advantage of already playing with the team and getting comfortable with the guys. By the time Bertuzzi is back who knows if he will mesh with the team. he certainly won't have much time to do it. Face it, he is a huge question mark.


I give you zetterberg. The other two are good role players but aren't impact players. Markov is a good dman but your blueline is still damn good without him. Detroit fans can try to twist it anyway they want to but the bottom line is the players that are out for us hurt us more than their injuries hurt them.


Now I'm not saying if we are healthy we would walk all over detroit. They could still beat us easily. They have a great team and if both tams were healthy and met in the Po's it would be a great series.

Both teams are hurting with injuries right now, and yet both teams still manage to win with them out. Hopefully everyone for both sides will be healthy the last time the teams meet, and Bertuzzi will be playing in that game. Return date is March 22.

Quote:
Todd Bertuzzi will become a Griffin in preparation for making his debut with the Red Wings.

While the Wings head West to play Vancouver and Calgary over the coming week, Bertuzzi will head to Grand Rapids. That will allow Bertuzzi to continue practicing rather than skate on his own -- and it's also a sign of how close he is to returning. When his new teammates come home, Bertuzzi could play in the next game, March 22 against Columbus. And if not that day, then March 24 against St. Louis or March 26 against Anaheim.

"He'll definitely play somewhere during that home stand," general manager Ken Holland said Wednesday.
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...703150424/1053

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Old
03-15-2007, 11:52 PM
  #115
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Why is everyone crying over who's injuries are worse? Does it matter? I could sit here all night and argue semantics over whether a 20g Dan Cleary is worth as much to Detroit as Martin Erat is to Nashville. Who friggin CARES?

Both teams are playing AHL scrubs. Both teams are hurt bad. Fact is, the Wings bit players stepped up these last 2 games and it was the difference. However, these games mean jack because neither team will look anything like this if they meet in the playoffs. Nobody made any statements or got into the other teams head.

It was two entertaining and hard-fought hockey games that will mean nothing in a month. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Old
03-16-2007, 12:13 AM
  #116
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Why is everyone crying over who's injuries are worse? Does it matter? I could sit here all night and argue semantics over whether a 20g Dan Cleary is worth as much to Detroit as Martin Erat is to Nashville. Who friggin CARES?

Both teams are playing AHL scrubs. Both teams are hurt bad. Fact is, the Wings bit players stepped up these last 2 games and it was the difference. However, these games mean jack because neither team will look anything like this if they meet in the playoffs. Nobody made any statements or got into the other teams head.

It was two entertaining and hard-fought hockey games that will mean nothing in a month. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well said.

Now, on to the Stars on Saturday.

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Old
03-16-2007, 02:00 AM
  #117
golfmade
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Bertuzzi.

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Old
03-16-2007, 07:03 AM
  #118
irisheyes555
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more like bertuzzi.....

but of course following the evil empire theme, maybe it should be

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Old
03-16-2007, 07:47 AM
  #119
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For what you guys gave up for Foppa vs what the wings did for Bert, you'd better hope he has a hell of a bigger impact than Bert. Right about now the trade for Calder pretty much trumps what Forsberg has given Nash thus far. Anything Bert gives for a bunch of condit. picks is just gravy.

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Old
03-16-2007, 08:26 AM
  #120
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For what you guys gave up for Foppa vs what the wings did for Bert, you'd better hope he has a hell of a bigger impact than Bert. Right about now the trade for Calder pretty much trumps what Forsberg has given Nash thus far. Anything Bert gives for a bunch of condit. picks is just gravy.
haha. we didn't really give up much at all. Kinda woulda liked the 1st rounder, but I'd rather have Forsberg.

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