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What is the problem with Jagr?

View Poll Results: What is wrong with Jagr?
His shoulder and Legs/Groin are legitimately hurting him 30 50.00%
It's all in his head, he thinks hes playing hurt, so his actual play is suffering 9 15.00%
Hes lazy, and that laziness is hurting the team 6 10.00%
The Captain C has effected his game 2 3.33%
I have no idea 13 21.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-17-2007, 12:41 PM
  #1
Inferno
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What is the problem with Jagr?

What do ya think?

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03-17-2007, 12:46 PM
  #2
lucky13
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i dont think its that hes not trying....i really believe he is.... this is the way jagr has always played the game...his efforts are for the offense only....i think the guys playing with only 1 good arm and 1 good leg.....hes settin people up....the other guys need to bury those feeds...

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03-17-2007, 01:07 PM
  #3
Mirinho
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...

Problem with Jagr is his condition and health.

For two years he hadn't any summer practise - where hockey players works on condition. (summer 2005 broken finger, summer 2006 shoulder surgery)

He wasn't 100% fit before this season.

But he play as best as he can..

In these days he has problems with knee, groins and all season with shoulder.

I know it from Marian Jelinek, he is JJ personal coach (no one knows JJ better than this man)

JJ has so many problems and even he has 24 G+57 A - and played all NYR matches.
(some players Marian Hossa, Dany Heatley have their best season and they have only 10 points more than JJ)

Give him this summer and you will see him back. He is type of player, who needs good preseason practise and HE NEEDS TO FEEL OK (at least as good as in last season)


Last edited by Mirinho: 03-17-2007 at 01:30 PM.
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03-17-2007, 01:10 PM
  #4
Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirinho View Post
Problem with Jagr is his condition and health.

For two years he hadn't any summer practise - where hockey players works on condition. (summer 2005 broken finger, summer 2006 shoulder surgery)

He wasn't 100% fit before this season.

But he play as best as he can..

In these days he has problems with knee, groins and all season with shoulder.

I know it from Marian Jelinek, he is JJ personal coach

JJ has so many problems and even he has 24 G+57 A - and played all NYR matches.
(some players Marian Hossa, Dany Heatley have their best season and they have only 10 points more than JJ)

Give him this summer and you will see him back. He is type of player, who needs good preseason practise and HE NEEDS TO FEEL OK (as in last season)
that sort of seems to be antithetical

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03-17-2007, 01:10 PM
  #5
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I think Jags had 1 or 2 really great years left in him, but he will have to get healty in the off season first.

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03-17-2007, 01:16 PM
  #6
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I voted no idea because only Jagr knows why he's not playing well. I think it is a combination of the first and the second though

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03-17-2007, 01:22 PM
  #7
Mirinho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
that sort of seems to be antithetical

I don't think so - but I edited it and wrote it better ;-)

JJ wasn't fully satisfied with last season - he felt he could play better.

But it wasn't any tragedy.


Last edited by Mirinho: 03-17-2007 at 01:32 PM.
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03-17-2007, 01:22 PM
  #8
Whaddagoal
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Having the luxury to see so many hockey teams (living in this area), as a non-Ranger fan that has been following them closely........ this is my take on Jagr:

He's clearly injured. The shoulder, the hip/legs, and considering that, he's still scoring at a good pace.

The expectations for him are so high, when he doesn't "appear" dominant on the scoresheet people are quick to rag on him. I say "appear" because it seems to me he is still always playing at another level above most others around the league. From almost all the games I've seen this season of the Rangers, he has one of the most dominant factors in the game, along with Nylander. How do you think the Rangers first line can dominate the other teams offensive zone so much?? Their ability to manage the o-zone with such controled boardwork and cycling, I oftentimes feel puzzled at why this board is always so quick to jump on them and start labeling them lazy, terrible, etc. Add to that his passing ability, and puck protection ability he's still a tough customer, even when injured. The amount of pinpoint passes he actually succeeds in making is also pretty high.

About his laziness: I think, he appears lazy because he has a long stride and generally smooth style of skating, and he's a big dude. Jagr usually doesn't have that "choppy, look fast on skates" skating style that players like Cullen have.
It doesn't look so smooth right now because of his leg issues, I think. That's a sign to me he is playing pretty damn injured. How often do you see Jagr with the puck on his stick and able to fend of two defenders on him on the boards, or able to create and maintain space near the half-boards. The guy can move in an out of traffic - the guy works hard, but it is often missed.

Defense is another story, but that has never been expected of him over the yeras, and i won't go into that.

I prefer not to make blankant statements, but I honestly feel that some have become rather numbed to Jagr being on their team, and that his contributions day-in and day-out get washed over by lofty expectations in a passionate hockey city. To me, from what I've seen over this season, he is still one of the most dominant players you can have on a team. Why you would want to get rid of him is still beyond me.

Of course, just my opinion.


Last edited by Whaddagoal: 03-17-2007 at 01:33 PM. Reason: Minor changes...
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03-17-2007, 01:26 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaddagoal View Post
Having the luxury to see so many hockey teams, as a non-Ranger fan that has been following them closely........ this is my take on Jagr:

He's clearly injured. The shoulder, the hip/legs, and considering that, he's still scoring at a good pace.

The expectations for him are so high, when he doesn't "appear" dominant on the scoresheet people are quick to rag on him. I say "appear" because it seems to me he is still always playing at another level above most others around the league. From almost all the games I've seen this season of the Rangers, he has one of the most dominant factors in the game, along with Nylander. How do you think the Rangers first line can dominate the other teams offensive zone so much?? Their ability to manage the o-zone with such controled boardwork and cycling, I oftentimes feel puzzled at why this board is always so quick to jump on them and start labeling them lazy, terrible, etc. Add to that his passing ability, and puck protection ability he's still a tough customer, even when injured. The amount of pinpoint passes he actually succeeds in making is also pretty high.

About his laziness: I think, he appears lazy because he has a long stride and generally smooth style of skating, and he's a big dude. It doesn't look so smooth right now because of his leg issues, I think. That is the sign he is playing pretty damn injured. How often do you see Jagr with the puck on his stick and able to fend of two defenders on him on the boards, or able to create and maintain space near the half-boards. The guy can move in an out of traffic - the guy works hard, but it is often missed. Jagr doesn't have that "choppy, look fast on skates", skating style, like Cullen and a lot of others have.

On defense, its a slightly different story, but that has never been expected of him.

I prefer not to make blankant statements, but I honestly feel that some have become rather numbed to Jagr being on their team, and that his contributions day-in and day-out get washed over by lofty expectations in a passionate hockey city. To me, from what I've seen over this season, he is still one of the most dominant players you can have on a team. Why you would want to get rid of him is still beyond me.

Of course, just my opinion.
Good post. Nice to see an opinion from an outsider that I agree with for the most part. No matter how bad a player is playing, I never see the type of bashing that is common here on any of the other boards

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Old
03-17-2007, 01:30 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaddagoal View Post
Having the luxury to see so many hockey teams, as a non-Ranger fan that has been following them closely........ this is my take on Jagr:

He's clearly injured. The shoulder, the hip/legs, and considering that, he's still scoring at a good pace.

The expectations for him are so high, when he doesn't "appear" dominant on the scoresheet people are quick to rag on him. I say "appear" because it seems to me he is still always playing at another level above most others around the league. From almost all the games I've seen this season of the Rangers, he has one of the most dominant factors in the game, along with Nylander. How do you think the Rangers first line can dominate the other teams offensive zone so much?? Their ability to manage the o-zone with such controled boardwork and cycling, I oftentimes feel puzzled at why this board is always so quick to jump on them and start labeling them lazy, terrible, etc. Add to that his passing ability, and puck protection ability he's still a tough customer, even when injured. The amount of pinpoint passes he actually succeeds in making is also pretty high.

About his laziness: I think, he appears lazy because he has a long stride and generally smooth style of skating, and he's a big dude. Jagr usually doesn't have that "choppy, look fast on skates" skating style that players like Cullen have.
It doesn't look so smooth right now because of his leg issues, I think. That's a sign to me he is playing pretty damn injured. How often do you see Jagr with the puck on his stick and able to fend of two defenders on him on the boards, or able to create and maintain space near the half-boards. The guy can move in an out of traffic - the guy works hard, but it is often missed.

Defense is another story, but that has never been expected of him over the yeras, and i won't go into that.

I prefer not to make blankant statements, but I honestly feel that some have become rather numbed to Jagr being on their team, and that his contributions day-in and day-out get washed over by lofty expectations in a passionate hockey city. To me, from what I've seen over this season, he is still one of the most dominant players you can have on a team. Why you would want to get rid of him is still beyond me.

Of course, just my opinion.
Great Write up. I really couldnt agree more with what you've said. Great to hear this from a Non-Ranger fan.

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Old
03-17-2007, 01:30 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaddagoal View Post
Why you would want to get rid of him is still beyond me.
Personally I want to deal him because while he is still a legitmate superstar he's starting to get up there in age and this team is most likely not going to win a cup with him in the next year or two. Therefore, why not trade him for a very nice package of prospects and some picks now...while he's still in his prime and a steal salary wise? If we do nothing, he'll be gone in 2 years and we'll be no better off for it. I was truly hoping we'd deal him at the deadline but obviously that didn't happen. Considering what teams were giving up for average talent I shudder to think what Jagr could have netted us. The return could have really set us up quite nicely for many years to come.

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03-17-2007, 01:35 PM
  #12
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Dont we have to pick up that Portion of his contract if we do infact end up trading him, instead of the Caps? Which would be 4+ mill against us, with no player to show.

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03-17-2007, 01:37 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Personally I want to deal him because while he is still a legitmate superstar he's starting to get up there in age and this team is most likely not going to win a cup with him in the next year or two. Therefore, why not trade him for a very nice package of prospects and some picks now...while he's still in his prime and a steal salary wise? If we do nothing, he'll be gone in 2 years and we'll be no better off for it. I was truly hoping we'd deal him at the deadline but obviously that didn't happen. Considering what teams were giving up for average talent I shudder to think what Jagr could have netted us. The return could have really set us up quite nicely for many years to come.
JJ has clause in his contract, that he must agree with the trade

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03-17-2007, 01:39 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaddagoal View Post
Having the luxury to see so many hockey teams (living in this area), as a non-Ranger fan that has been following them closely........ this is my take on Jagr:

He's clearly injured. The shoulder, the hip/legs, and considering that, he's still scoring at a good pace.

The expectations for him are so high, when he doesn't "appear" dominant on the scoresheet people are quick to rag on him. I say "appear" because it seems to me he is still always playing at another level above most others around the league. From almost all the games I've seen this season of the Rangers, he has one of the most dominant factors in the game, along with Nylander. How do you think the Rangers first line can dominate the other teams offensive zone so much?? Their ability to manage the o-zone with such controled boardwork and cycling, I oftentimes feel puzzled at why this board is always so quick to jump on them and start labeling them lazy, terrible, etc. Add to that his passing ability, and puck protection ability he's still a tough customer, even when injured. The amount of pinpoint passes he actually succeeds in making is also pretty high.

About his laziness: I think, he appears lazy because he has a long stride and generally smooth style of skating, and he's a big dude. Jagr usually doesn't have that "choppy, look fast on skates" skating style that players like Cullen have.
It doesn't look so smooth right now because of his leg issues, I think. That's a sign to me he is playing pretty damn injured. How often do you see Jagr with the puck on his stick and able to fend of two defenders on him on the boards, or able to create and maintain space near the half-boards. The guy can move in an out of traffic - the guy works hard, but it is often missed.

Defense is another story, but that has never been expected of him over the yeras, and i won't go into that.

I prefer not to make blankant statements, but I honestly feel that some have become rather numbed to Jagr being on their team, and that his contributions day-in and day-out get washed over by lofty expectations in a passionate hockey city. To me, from what I've seen over this season, he is still one of the most dominant players you can have on a team. Why you would want to get rid of him is still beyond me.

Of course, just my opinion.
and i must say its a very good opinion. maybe because i share it. we as fans expect so much out of him, and when he doesnt meet or exceed our expectations, we bash him, or anyone for that matter. if he can produce like this while injured or whatever the case may be, and still produce more than most superstars, whats the peoblem? i think he has more than a couple years in him, and id love to see him finish his career here.

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Old
03-17-2007, 01:45 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Personally I want to deal him because while he is still a legitmate superstar he's starting to get up there in age and this team is most likely not going to win a cup with him in the next year or two. Therefore, why not trade him for a very nice package of prospects and some picks now...while he's still in his prime and a steal salary wise? If we do nothing, he'll be gone in 2 years and we'll be no better off for it. I was truly hoping we'd deal him at the deadline but obviously that didn't happen. Considering what teams were giving up for average talent I shudder to think what Jagr could have netted us. The return could have really set us up quite nicely for many years to come.
I understand, somewhat. Lots of picks or prospects, or a genreal superstar for superstar trade, But you're still risking another year or two of rebuilding again because this current team has been built around Jagr (for the good or bad).

I also think that Jagr could play a few more seasons at the level he has been known for. Don't ask me paticuarly why, its more of a hunch from his playing style, but he doesn't remind me of one of those players that'll have his production plummet, all of a sudden, as if he hit a wall and retire (barring any catastrphic injuries). Hell I think Jagr could last around longer than that and have his role reduced to a playmaker only and he'll be pretty damn effective. He can play a slowdown game like Forsberg

What type of return are you looking for him?

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03-17-2007, 01:49 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaddagoal View Post
I understand, somewhat. Lots of picks or prospects, or a genreal superstar for superstar trade, But you're still risking another year or two of rebuilding again because this current team has been built around Jagr (for the good or bad).

I also think that Jagr could play a few more seasons at the level he has been known for. Don't ask me paticuarly why, its more of a hunch from his playing style, but he doesn't remind me of one of those players that'll have his production plummet, all of a sudden, as if he hit a wall and retire (barring any catastrphic injuries). Hell I think Jagr could last around longer than that and have his role reduced to a playmaker only and he'll be pretty damn effective. He can play a slowdown game like Forsberg

What type of return are you looking for him?
it would have to START at what the flyers got for Forsberg, and would have to be more than that...

anyways, i personally think whats wrong with him, is all in his head. I havent seen a considerable decline on the velocity on his shots, but i have seen a reluctance to put the puck on the net moreso this year than last (although the shot total may not reflect that).

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03-17-2007, 01:54 PM
  #17
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I don't think we know all the truth about his physical condition.
Only the management and the team know what's really going on with Jaromir.
With all the respect to Jagr if he is playing hurt he should not play at all because the way he is playing now he is hurting our team more then he is hurting him self.
That’s only my opinion.

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03-17-2007, 02:04 PM
  #18
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I've seen that reluctance too, no doubt. Maybe it just really hurts to shoot

But in seriousness, it seems the Rangers weren't far off this season to having some sort of playoff contender. Still who knows what'll happen. They're just missing more than a few key guys and had some rough luck, espeically with injuries down this stretch.

I don't think removing Jagr and getting tons of youth or picks or a "new face of the franchise" will reap any huge benefit than having him still on the team at least not in the next 3-5 years.

If Hossa legitimately turns out to be what he showed throughout the 2nd half of season, you'd still have 2-3 quality lines, with Avery and Prucha having a better hopefully a better season next year. You can plug in some of the gaps with your studs in Hartford. You still have Tyutin... Staal (maybe?)...

It doesn't seem like a bad mix for next season. But this club has me puzzled in general, because it doesn't seem far off from being a really solid team...

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03-18-2007, 02:59 PM
  #19
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Personally I think he's settling into more of a playmaking role. He's no longer the lethal scorer he once was...and he at least feels he cannot be. As a result, he has adjusted his game, and it doesn't look too bad

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03-18-2007, 03:31 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaddagoal View Post
I understand, somewhat. Lots of picks or prospects, or a genreal superstar for superstar trade, But you're still risking another year or two of rebuilding again because this current team has been built around Jagr (for the good or bad).

I also think that Jagr could play a few more seasons at the level he has been known for. Don't ask me paticuarly why, its more of a hunch from his playing style, but he doesn't remind me of one of those players that'll have his production plummet, all of a sudden, as if he hit a wall and retire (barring any catastrphic injuries). Hell I think Jagr could last around longer than that and have his role reduced to a playmaker only and he'll be pretty damn effective. He can play a slowdown game like Forsberg

What type of return are you looking for him?
That's why I want to reshape the team now, not in 2 or 3 years. IMO we're only delaying the inevitable by keeping Jags around. Dealing him now would speed up the "rebuild" for lack of a better term by that amount of time. This team has a pretty good core of younger guys, but lacks top end talent in the system. If we deal him for young NHL talent, a couple of 1st round picks and/or some elite prospects the organization would be a lot better off in 2 years when the Jagr era ends and there is nothing to show for it. Obviously anyone who thinks we're going to win a cup this year or next would disagree with me...but I don't think the odds are that great. I'd rather focus on the next 10 years as opposed to the next 2.


Last edited by broadwayblue: 03-18-2007 at 03:36 PM.
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