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The Young Guns Thread.....(Dubinsky, Callahan, Girardi, Pock, etc)

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Old
03-17-2007, 12:05 PM
  #26
dynamoovechkin
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The kids are alright!

Girardi just looks like an NHL defenseman. He has earned his right to stick with the big club for the rest of the season including playoffs. With Rachunek out, I would think he is a lock.

As far as Pock goes, I think he becomes a victim of the numbers game- just too many promising young D-men in the system to keep him around- he is steady if unspectacular- just seems to me there is not one part of his game that sticks out that makes you think that one day he could develop into a top 4 D-man.

Dubinsky has been a pleasant surprise. Not exactly wowed by the bright lights, he has come in and played like he belongs! Once he grows into that lanky body and adds a few more moves to his arsenal he could potentially become a very productive
2nd line player. Love the grit he shows too. (Schoeny can really groom em!)

Callahan was a revelation last night! Guy has a nose for the net- a shoot first ask questions later type of player- the type we need the most ( and the fans have been clamoring for!) Plays with a ton of heart, seems more physically mature than Dubi, good skater, awesome release. I found myself dreaming of a 35 goal scorer at some point...some guys just have it!

Liffiton was solid- just not ready for prime time. I'd have to see more of him to make an accurate assessment, he got pretty limited minutes last night.

By the way, I thought Renney's use of the new guys was great- especially the ACC line of Avery Callahan Cullen. Anybody notice how Cullen is starting to make the players around him look better? Cullen is having a heck of a 2nd half of the season.

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Old
03-17-2007, 02:18 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
And that sums it up folks. Ignore HF lists, or THN lists......we have a BUNCH of prospects to be very excited for. Maybe not all 1st line players or #1 defenseman but we sure as hell have a very nice core to look forward toward.

Be excited..what we are witnessing right now is just the tip of the iceberg..
Fly & all:

What you are seing before your eyes is the development of our own home grown players. You see players like Pyatt, Dubinski and Dupont for example improve each and every year. I laugh at people who pigeon hole 17 & 18 year olds as 3rd or 4th line players. When they are drafted at that age many of them are playing limited roles on either their Jrs or college teams. Their point totals are therefore not a true reflection of their offensive abilities. As they get older and gain seniority on those teams they move up on the lines and in many cases their offensive production improves. For every Doug Wickenheiser (53G-65A per season in Jrs, 15G-22A in NHL) and Alain Daigle (45G-41A per season in Jrs, 11G-9A in NHL) there are other players who were less know and drafted lower who had substantially better NHL careers.

See for yourself, do your own analysis of what your own eyes are telling you. Many of these so called experts have no better talent evaluation skills than you or I do. If youa re like me you've seen enough hockey to know when you see someone who has the tools and when they don't.

How many would like a Erik Cole on the NYRs? Many I would wager. But, he's only 6'1" 185 lbs. Do you think that was his weight when he was drafted? What about a guy who is only 5'7" 175lbs? To small, right? Gee someone better tell Brian Gionta that he doesn't belong in the NHL! How about someone who averaged 34g-38a in jrs who was 6' 175lbs? No one would want Alex Tanguay right? I think you start to get my point.

The player you see at 17-18 is normally not the player you see at 20-21 and certainly is not the player you see 2 years later when they reach maturity at 23-24.
The key is the scouting and the coaching once these players get into your organization. Their skills need to be honed for the pro game and eventually to make the final step to play for the big club in the NHL. How many teams in the NHL now emulate our rookie camp? In fact the NHL legislated in a rule change because we had the financial resources and had a month long camp.

This is the part that many of the people who post on here failed to acknowledge was a vastly more important facit of the change in the overhaul of the organization than what they saw on the ice on MSG. I now when I see posts arguing for the promotion of many of these career 3rd and 4th line draft picks!

Thank god for the hockey fairy! Where would we be with out the hockey fairy!

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Old
03-17-2007, 02:32 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Talk about them, who are you impressed with, what type of future do with them as a Ranger, who needs more time in the minors? Anything you can think of, all talk about them goes here.

I'll start it off:

Dubinsky - Love him in the NHL, he may not be ready for a full time spot but he shows so much potential as a 20 year old. He won't back down to anyone and hits everything. Definitely see that little bit of an agitator in him (not like Avery but hes got that side of him). Give him a full taste of the AHL playoffs this season and a half or full season more in the AHL and bring this kid up for good. He is our future 2nd line center who can sub in for the 1st line with injuries. If there was one thing i'd want him to work on is his defensive zone coverage. At times he does look a little lost or it does take him a bit longer to realize where to go.

Callahan - Given a scoring role tonight he looked very good. Shoots everything, has a quick shot, played both ends very well and is a good skater that likes to hit. Hell, if he is on our future 3rd line then we could have a 20 goal 3rd liner in the future. I seem him bumping back and forth from the 2nd and 3rd line. Still very early though...looking forward to seeing him play a few more games in the NHL with around 10 minutes of ice time at least.

Girardi - He amazed me in the AHL last season being a nobody and playing well. He continued to play well this season in the AHL and was called up..since being called up he has been very solid in the AHL as a rookie. I have really no complaints on him but at times he seems to let the player go to the outside of him and beat him...that can be fixed though over time. I'd love to have him in a permanent role as our #5 defenseman for the next few years.

Pock - I have to admit, with all the anti-pock posts i really don't mind him. Last year I hated him because he stunk at defense. But he looks so much better then last year...he may be sacrificing the offense of his game but who cares, he's there to play defense. I've been happy with him so I wouldn't mind him being our #6 next year. If we get an upgrade in the future (like we should) I wouldn't mind getting rid of him though...re-sign him for a year IMO.
i love these posts because its so easy to just agree/disagree with what everyone else says.... so here is MY very basic take on it...

DUBI.... very promising. i love this kid
CALLAHAN.... not as impressed, but i think he has a future.
GIRARDI.... keep him!!! i dont want to see him leave anytime soon. not a top pair d-man, but plays the game well
POCK.... i like this guy too. he has shown improvement, and i see him improving into next year as well.

seeing how these guys are a couple years younger than me, it really makes me wish i was still playing hockey like i did when i was younger

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Old
03-17-2007, 03:12 PM
  #29
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I actually think Girardi has a good chance to be a top 4. For one thing his offensive game has still to be tapped. He's put good numbers up as a 21 and a 22 year old in the AHL and he is only 22. A defenseman making it at 22 and playing fairly well doing it is a little bit of an anomaly. This guy can get better. A bit faster and a bit quicker is what I think he needs to work on the most.

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Old
03-17-2007, 05:19 PM
  #30
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Agreed, coaching is of utmost importance and it is hard to access 17 or 18 year olds as to physical and mental development. But nothing trumps inate talent. You can only improve skating so much, only get so much stronger. Some guys just have quicker firing muscles, more efficient lungs to start off with, etc. Yes, top talents have failed and lesser talents have developed, but give me the guys who have the tools to start off with in the first place. As to getting talents like Henrik and Petr in the late rounds: I think those days are gone. There are no secrets anymore and scouts are everywhere.

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Old
03-17-2007, 05:28 PM
  #31
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Girardi, I feel, needs to stay in the NHL, and on the Rangers. I still find no glaring problems in his play, and he seems to always make the right move at the right time (The break away last night agaisnt ATL?) He seems to have an inticnt of where his stick needs to be, and how to play the puck.
Duby I would keep too. He has already shown he can compete, and he won't take **** from older guys or bigger guys, the same goes for Callahan.
These three, I saw, we kepp in the NHL, and on the Rangers and make some superstars out of them. They just scream potential.

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Old
03-17-2007, 06:23 PM
  #32
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as I've said before, I think the model for this organization is the present day sabres: A deep team with alot of good, but not great, players that have grown up and learned to play together, along with suberp goaltending. The problem is that even the Sabres have manages to aquire first line talent here and there (Vanek, Briere, Drury) and the Rangers will have to do the same. But the infrustucture is there.

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Old
03-17-2007, 08:40 PM
  #33
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So after this, if Callahan goes down while Isbister stays in the lineup, do we riot or do we riot?

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Old
03-17-2007, 08:45 PM
  #34
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Great game by Callahan but also a nice game by Pock. I don't see any reason why this guy shouldn't play more.....

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Old
03-17-2007, 09:46 PM
  #35
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Callahan had a monster game tonight. Keep him up.

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Old
03-17-2007, 10:16 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Callahan had a monster game tonight. Keep him up.
Guy throws the body too, something that may not be talked about as much because of his offensive game.

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Old
03-17-2007, 10:35 PM
  #37
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Liffiton I was worried would be a liability on the ice at the NHL but he has proved me wrong. He may not be amazing out there but he is holding is own and doesn't look lost or out of place at the NHL level. Hopefully he keeps it up.

Still would like to see Baranka get a game or 2 in at the NHL level before the seasons end.

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Old
03-18-2007, 01:01 AM
  #38
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The way I see it...

Dubinsky: He's definitely going to be our future 2nd line center one day. The kid has a lot more speed than I thought. Either that, or he really improved his skating between training camp and now, because he looks A LOT FASTER than he did in September. He's got good hands, and a good shot, and hits well. Not only that, but he throws some pretty big hits too. I see the agitator side of him as well, as some have mentioned, but I think his game is moreso sandpaper rather than agitator. His defense could use work, but can we name any young players ages 20 and under that are polished defensively? Good luck doing so, because I can't think of any.

Timetable: Look for him to be with the team next year, it will be nearly impossible for them to keep him out of the lineup. He's played all too well here for them to keep him down in the minors. He'll have some young competition in training camp though, but I think with his experience this year, and him finally getting used to his new frame, he'll beat out the competition.

Callahan: Scoring goals, throwing hits, and throwing his fists. This kid is just a late bloomer that just might be a lot better of a player than everyone thought he would be. A phenomenal year at the AHL level, scoring 35 goals and 55 points in 60 games so far as a rookie, and just added his 1st and 2nd career NHL goals tonight. I can't even put a tab on where this kid will end up. I mean if he keeps scoring like this, he could possibly be a 1st liner. This is a kid that we thought would be a very servicable 3rd liner, a heart and soul kind of player with an added scoring touch, and he's showing more than just that. He threw some nice hits tonight, knocking down players like Alberts, who is a lot bigger than he is. Not only that, but he fought Chuck Kobasew. Sure, wasn't a great fight, but he showed us that he's willing to drop the gloves if be it. That's what character is all about. This kid has got EVERYTHING going right for him simply because of the fact that he's a hard-working opportunist.

Timetable: If I could pick a song that could describe Ryan Callahan in a nutshell... it would be "Right Now" by Van Halen. This kid is more than ready to seize the moment and the opportunity. Sending him down now, even with the return of Shanahan would be an absolute crime. Even last night, despite not scoring, he played very well against Atlanta.

Girardi: Easily the most steady of any young defender that I've seen the Rangers bring up in years. Norstrom, Johnsson, hell... not even Tyutin was this steady at first. This kid just jumps right into the fire, and plays like he's a seasoned veteran. Another kid that's come completely out of left field. This time last year, he was just coming out of Charlotte. No one thought this kid would be anything special. Now, he's turning heads and opening eyes with simple, but stellar defensive plays. He's just so cool, calm, and collected. He's like a godsend to this team. We haven't had a defender like that in years. Even when he does get beaten one-on-one, he's one of the better defenders around at recovering. He made a key play on Slava Kozlov last night when Kozlov got in on breakaway, and Kozlov didn't even get a shot off. Might I add that he didn't even take a penalty on it. Amazing, right? Just goes to show you how steady he really is.

Timetable: He's already with the club, and is playing absolutely great. He keeps playing like this, he's going to be here for a long time.

Pock: I don't know why this kid has recieved flak. I think he's played very well defensively. Sure, he's made a few rookie mistakes, but those same rookie mistakes are being made by our VETERANS. How many passes have Rozsival and Malik sent up the middle only to be picked off and turned into scoring chances/goals against? I'm not going to go off on a tangent here, bashing those two, but the point is, we all cried for the kids to come up and play, and now that some of these kids are making rookie mistakes, - something completely unavoidable - some of you people are going to bash them, and call for them to be sent down? I'd rather watch Pock make rookie mistakes all day at the league minimum or a entry level deal than overpay Rozsival and Malik to play 20 minutes a game and make the same stupid mistakes with and without the puck every game. It's quite hypocritical of some of the people on here.

Timetable: Due to injuries, Renney and Sather had their hand forced in having to call up Thomas Pock. Pock was with the team earlier this year, and played well for the most part, but was sent down for a little bit. Now, he's back up, and he's improved on his defense. It looks like he's given up a little bit of his offensive game, but that's fine. Sometimes, that's just what you have to do to make it at the NHL level... change up your game to find a niche that fits you best, and that's what I think Pock has finally done. Now, if they would just give him some damn power play time, I think they could optimize his production.

As Fly said... we have a lot to look forward to with these young kids, and this isn't even mentioning our other young guns. Anisimov, Montoya, Pyatt, Staal, Sanguinetti, Sauer, Korpikoski, Bourret, etc. I'm VERY high on Pyatt, who was absolutely great at the WJC. He was great at both ends of the ice, and played on a line with Jonathon Toews. He's a very smart player who plays a great two-way game, and could be the true checking center that we've lacked since Sergei Nemchinov, if you ask me. He's got captain material written all over his forehead, and has made strides in his offensive game, and his skating.

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Old
03-18-2007, 01:16 AM
  #39
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Personally, I see Dubinsky developing into our very own R.J. Umberger. Umberger can do everything (play PP, PK, good in the offensive/defensive zone, and a good hitter). Both have similar frames except I'm pretty sure Umberger is 6'2 and around 205 and Dubi is 6'1 and around 205.

Just my personal assessment of how he looks out on the ice.

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03-18-2007, 01:24 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiting for Dubi View Post
Personally, I see Dubinsky developing into our very own R.J. Umberger. Umberger can do everything (play PP, PK, good in the offensive/defensive zone, and a good hitter). Both have similar frames except I'm pretty sure Umberger is 6'2 and around 205 and Dubi is 6'1 and around 205.

Just my personal assessment of how he looks out on the ice.
I have to correct you on one thing...

RJ's not that great defensively 5 on 5. When he gets set in the zone on the PK, he's a decent PKer, but he's a lazy backchecker and has been left standing beside the guy scoring a goal this year MANY times without even an attempt to take the guy.

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Old
03-18-2007, 01:28 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiting for Dubi View Post
Personally, I see Dubinsky developing into our very own R.J. Umberger. Umberger can do everything (play PP, PK, good in the offensive/defensive zone, and a good hitter). Both have similar frames except I'm pretty sure Umberger is 6'2 and around 205 and Dubi is 6'1 and around 205.

Just my personal assessment of how he looks out on the ice.
The official site has Dubinsky at 6'1", 224. Flyers site has Umberger at 6'2", 215. Take that for what it's worth (as noted in another thread, very little). Anyway, I'd hope for a little more offense and better defense from Dubi. Don't jump on me, I know Umberger is young, I just don't see the offensive upside or even-strength defensive commitment from Umberger.

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03-18-2007, 01:30 AM
  #42
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I have to correct you on one thing...

RJ's not that great defensively 5 on 5. When he gets set in the zone on the PK, he's a decent PKer, but he's a lazy backchecker and has been left standing beside the guy scoring a goal this year MANY times without even an attempt to take the guy.
Thanks for clearing that up. From what I've seen of him, he's decent on the backcheck, but obviously you know more about him than me cause you watch him play every game.

Dubi looks a bit quicker than Umberger does...am I right with that one?

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03-18-2007, 01:52 AM
  #43
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Thanks for clearing that up. From what I've seen of him, he's decent on the backcheck, but obviously you know more about him than me cause you watch him play every game.

Dubi looks a bit quicker than Umberger does...am I right with that one?
Haven't seen Dubinsky play to be honest. I haven't caught a Rangers game when he's been called up. Umberger can fly when he wants to, underrated speed, especially with the puck.

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03-18-2007, 01:55 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
The official site has Dubinsky at 6'1", 224. Flyers site has Umberger at 6'2", 215. Take that for what it's worth (as noted in another thread, very little). Anyway, I'd hope for a little more offense and better defense from Dubi. Don't jump on me, I know Umberger is young, I just don't see the offensive upside or even-strength defensive commitment from Umberger.
You'd be correct on Umberger. He's good for 20+ goals a year, not a good passer though. Most of his goals he does it on his own. I think he has 16 this year on a horrible team where he's been buried mostly on the 4th line and he put up 20 last year as a rookie.

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Old
03-18-2007, 01:57 PM
  #45
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And, in watching Dubi, Cally and Girardi, I think we have three more players will be on the Rangers next year. You what I really liked? Both Dubi and Callahan paid no respect to Kovalchuk. Both hit him when they had a chance. Anyway, the Avery-Cullen-Callahan line is next year's 3rd line. And, Dubinsky shows he is a very viable candidate for 2nd line center next year. And, I'll admit that Girardi is a lot better player than I originally give him credit for being. And, we going to see Staal, Sauer, Pyatt and Dupont in Hartford next...possibly even Anisimov...so much to be excited about as a Ranger fan.
I echo the sentiments. Right now, both Dubinsky and Callahan have showd enough that they should be present in the lineup for the playoff push. I think that, whether or not the Rangers make it, it will give them allow for them to build up confidence and gain some valuable experience.

Girardi has shown enough that Sather should not be in a rush to go out and pay another $3m to a 3rd pairing defenseman. I am hoping that him and Baranka will start next year as the Rangers 3rd pairing (I truly think that Staal will start the year in Hartford). Liffiton has not disappointed me either. Callahan and Dubinsky have not shown that they will back down to anyone and have played the body. Next years team should be less Eurocentric and should be an interesting team to watch with Callahan, Dubinsky, Avery & Hollweg taking the ice every night.

I will say this. Dubinsky is a lot bigger than I thought and I love that he plays big. And Callahan certainly plays much bigger than his size.

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03-18-2007, 01:59 PM
  #46
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Is Pock a free-agent after this season?

I wonder if he'd stay considering the depth we have on defense coming up.

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03-18-2007, 02:02 PM
  #47
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Girardi's amazing play on the puck just makes him so valuable... And he's good enough with the puck offensively that doesnt make him bad there either. Very rare to see a guy play nearly flawless in terms of making good defensive plays on the puck, let alone for a rookie. Thought maybe 5 or 6 defenseman, but he amazingly could be a 4th defenseman if he continues with the good decisions and excellent play. Really shocking with him.

And although Pock has improved as of late, i still dont see him being a top 6 guy... A guy who can dominate in the AHL and come up occasionally, no problem, but that is as far as it goes with me.

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Old
03-18-2007, 02:05 PM
  #48
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Sam is hinting that Dubinsky will be recalled for Straka tomorrow.

http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/

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Old
03-20-2007, 11:52 AM
  #49
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Girardi's amazing play on the puck just makes him so valuable... And he's good enough with the puck offensively that doesnt make him bad there either. Very rare to see a guy play nearly flawless in terms of making good defensive plays on the puck, let alone for a rookie. Thought maybe 5 or 6 defenseman, but he amazingly could be a 4th defenseman if he continues with the good decisions and excellent play. Really shocking with him.

And although Pock has improved as of late, i still dont see him being a top 6 guy... A guy who can dominate in the AHL and come up occasionally, no problem, but that is as far as it goes with me.
I agree with Girardi, so calm and composed back there rarely makes a mistake or a bad pass. With Pock I got to disagree though. He just started playing defense a few years ago so he is still going to learn. I know people have complained about his point production, but if you look at his first year in Hartford he put 6 points then the next year he put up 61. Now I'm not saying this guy is going to put 60 points a year, I'd be happy with 30-40 but it just seems to me that it takes Pock a little while to get adjusted to the league. As many have said he was misused at the beginning of the year and that really hurt his development in my eyes. When he finally did come back after a 30 game stretch of not playing he was trying to do too much. He has since then toned his game down a lot and has been a lot more responsible defensively. He needs to put on some more muscle so he doesn't lose the battles along the boards but this guy is going to be a NHL defenseman. It's only a matter of time before everything starts falling into place for him and that's when the goals and assists will come.

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Old
03-20-2007, 12:23 PM
  #50
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Unfortunately I don't think Pock will be here after this season. Just a hunch.

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