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How do you justify our MVP?

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Old
03-18-2007, 08:18 PM
  #26
philbo
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Henry w/out doubt

Shanny a close runner-up. But we would be talking nothing but Wolfpack for 3 weeks now if it were'nt for the big swede between the pipes.

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Old
03-18-2007, 08:22 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philbo View Post
Henry w/out doubt

Shanny a close runner-up. But we would be talking nothing but Wolfpack for 3 weeks now if it were'nt for the big swede between the pipes.
Actually we'd be talking about who might drop to us at the 8th pick.

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Old
03-18-2007, 08:31 PM
  #28
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Going to have to disagree with all of you.

Lundqvist has been great, but if it were up to me,

19 Games Prior Avery trade:

W- 7
L- 12
OTL- 0

Points: 14

19 Games Since Avery trade:

W- 10
L- 4
OTL- 5

Points: 25

The record speaks for itself.

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Old
03-18-2007, 08:33 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theoren Fan View Post
Going to have to disagree with all of you.

Lundqvist has been great, but if it were up to me,

19 Games Prior Avery trade:

W- 7
L- 12
OTL- 0

Points: 14

19 Games Since Avery trade:

W- 10
L- 4
OTL- 5

Points: 25

The record speaks for itself.


I love Avery, but it's clearly Henrik. Avery has had a very positive effect on this team that can not even be measured with stats... but without him we could still win games. Without Henrik we're the Islanders with Dunham in net.

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Old
03-18-2007, 08:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Take Jagr off the team and we have no offense whatsoever, and Henke would have to pitch a SO every night for us to win. I don't see the moping and lack of heart that other people see, so that's a moot point in this argument. The shootout argument is silly- he's not good in them and knows it (neither Crosby nor Ovechkin are good in shootouts either, so it's not uncommon). You want Shaq shooting the game winning free throws? I also don't really know what you mean when you say he insists on playing with his boys... he's been open and receptive to a whole bunch of linemates this season so I don't know where you get that.

I'm not going to argue that Jagr is the league MVP or even necessarily our MVP, but he's up there on our team. Again, take Jagr off the team, and who picks up the offensive slack? Henke is the MVP, but people are so quick to dismiss Jagr because of his perceived lack of heart and moodiness.
earlier this season there was an article stating renney wanted to break up the jagr line to find more offense and the response from nylander, straka and jagr was no.. ahh the shootout thing is just a stupid situation any way you want to look at it.. the last 2 shootouts he was in he looked like he can perform in them just fine to me.. so him not being too good etc etc is a bunch of bull crap.. go out there and do your best, be a leader.. does crosby sit out shootouts or ovechkin.? i would doubt it regardless of how good or bad they are at it..

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Old
03-18-2007, 10:31 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickrOck View Post
earlier this season there was an article stating renney wanted to break up the jagr line to find more offense and the response from nylander, straka and jagr was no.. ahh the shootout thing is just a stupid situation any way you want to look at it.. the last 2 shootouts he was in he looked like he can perform in them just fine to me.. so him not being too good etc etc is a bunch of bull crap.. go out there and do your best, be a leader.. does crosby sit out shootouts or ovechkin.? i would doubt it regardless of how good or bad they are at it..
There are lots of players who excel in shootouts who aren't scorers. Look at our own Michael Nylander for example, he's universally condemned for his unwillingness to shoot the puck yet he's solid one-on-one. Some guys are just better at it than others, overall statistics be damned. I think that Jagr probably should not have asked out of it, but if he was that lacking in confidence then I don't have a problem with what he did.

As far as the line shaking-up, that's much ado about nothing IMO. The guys are comfortable with one another and didn't initially want to swtich; there's nothing wrong with that. Had Jagr thrown a **** fit and refused the change, that would be a different story. But it didn't happen like that, so it's really a non-issue.

And as far as leadership, well, Jagr isn't a true team leader. I accepted that a long time ago, and I don't hold it against him. Some people just can't handle being the leader of a team. My father used to get so angry at Mike Piazza because he wasn't a vocal, aggressive leader in the clubhouse. I on the other hand realized leadership was not something Mike was going to provide, so I was able to more appreciate what he did contribute to the team. I feel much the same about Jagr.

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Old
03-18-2007, 10:34 PM
  #32
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Hank

Why isnt the thread a poll?

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Old
03-18-2007, 11:20 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Secondly id probably pick Sean Avery.

i know its hard as hell to pick a guy whose played like 15 games for your team, but the attitude as a whole changed the second this guy took the ice. his value to this team is immeasurable
Agree wih that.

Somehow, he's made other guys discover that they have balls, too.

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Old
03-19-2007, 12:47 AM
  #34
in the hall
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
Hank

Why isnt the thread a poll?
it wasn't meant to be.. lundqvist is obviously the choice for most

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Old
03-19-2007, 12:48 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by klingsor View Post
Agree wih that.

Somehow, he's made other guys discover that they have balls, too.
very true but i would agree with the poster that says we win games with or without avery..

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Old
03-19-2007, 01:46 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickrOck View Post
i don't even consider jagr, his attitude to me this season seems like a miserable mope on most nights, his heart on the ice at times is very questionable to me.. his lack of enthusiasim on back checking and line changes is a joke.. his sitting out of shootouts, the refusal to believe the PP was just not working.. his insistence on playing with his boys when the team could'nt score and we need to spread the offense.. the guy's obviously not the mvp here by a landslide.. how many of his assists are secondary assists.? so lets not make him out to be the greatest playmaker in the league either..

lundqvist has stood on his head for this team since the all star break.. any other goaltender and this teams toast.. every night he gives them a chance, i'm pretty sure i read somewhere he has the best #'s post all star break of any goalie.?
EXCELLENT POST, you couldn't have summed it up any better.

Hank is the MVP. Hank has kept us in EVERY SINGLE GAME. He's made it our game to win, unfortunately, the team in front of him plays not to lose because that dolt Renney doesn't know how to coach a damn team. If not for Hank, it doesn't matter who does what offensively.

Jagr has done as much harm to this team as he's done good for it if you ask me. His lazyness, not showing up on some nights, refusal to find out what the word defense means, and his refusal to shoot in shootouts. This is a guy who about a month ago said we have to start playing better and said he would lift this team up on his back. He said he needed to be the guy, and taking nights off doesn't constitute that.

He's a piss-poor excuse for a captain, and shouldn't be in New York. He's done more than wore out his welcome here in my mind. It's sad, because Aaron Ward got kicked from NY because he pulled a Bobby Holik and said two absolute truths about the team when he said Jagr is a gutless coward and a bad captain, and that the team sucks. He had it with the crap, and I understand exactly why he was traded from two different teams for the same reasons now, and the packages that were recieved in return both times SUCKED. Is it me, or is there a recurring theme there?

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Old
03-19-2007, 01:48 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theoren Fan View Post
Going to have to disagree with all of you.

Lundqvist has been great, but if it were up to me,

19 Games Prior Avery trade:

W- 7
L- 12
OTL- 0

Points: 14

19 Games Since Avery trade:

W- 10
L- 4
OTL- 5

Points: 25

The record speaks for itself.
As much as I agree with you, Henrik's numbers are just about tops in the league since January. He's had an unhuman goals against and save percentage. Save percentage just below .930, and a gaa of under 2. This guy has been arguably the best goalie in the league since that point. Hank brought us back, now it's time for the team to show their appreciate, and win some damn games for him. Boston was a start, but we have to keep it up if we plan on doing anything.

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Old
03-19-2007, 06:35 AM
  #38
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Old
03-19-2007, 05:22 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
EXCELLENT POST, you couldn't have summed it up any better.

Hank is the MVP. Hank has kept us in EVERY SINGLE GAME. He's made it our game to win, unfortunately, the team in front of him plays not to lose because that dolt Renney doesn't know how to coach a damn team. If not for Hank, it doesn't matter who does what offensively.

Jagr has done as much harm to this team as he's done good for it if you ask me. His lazyness, not showing up on some nights, refusal to find out what the word defense means, and his refusal to shoot in shootouts. This is a guy who about a month ago said we have to start playing better and said he would lift this team up on his back. He said he needed to be the guy, and taking nights off doesn't constitute that.

He's a piss-poor excuse for a captain, and shouldn't be in New York. He's done more than wore out his welcome here in my mind. It's sad, because Aaron Ward got kicked from NY because he pulled a Bobby Holik and said two absolute truths about the team when he said Jagr is a gutless coward and a bad captain, and that the team sucks. He had it with the crap, and I understand exactly why he was traded from two different teams for the same reasons now, and the packages that were recieved in return both times SUCKED. Is it me, or is there a recurring theme there?
So Jaromir Jagr is incapable of being a good captain, I think we can all agree on that. I also think most of us knew that before he was given the C. But why do we have to hate him so much for it? What was Jagr to do when offered the C this past off-season? I guarantee you that had Jagr declined the C, he would have been crucified by everyone. For him right now, in a position that he obviously shouldn't hold, it's a damned it you do, damned if you don't type of thing.

His consistent effort (or lack thereof) is a problem, and I'm not going to try to defend it. He's clearly not cut-out to be "the guy" on our team. But, that's what most people expect him to be. Why can't we just accept that he is not "the guy," and appreciate what he does do for us? He's a player with obvious flaws in his game, but at the same time is a tremendous talent who brings a ton of offense to the table, even in this "down year" of his. You guys are all kidding yourselves if you think we'd be better off without Jagr on this team.

Jagr was traded from Pittsburgh largely for financial concerns, as I recall, not so much his attitude. His attitude in Washington was knocked on a regular basis, but financial considerations were the driving force behind that trade (and the lopsided package we gave up). I live in DC, I had to read every day about how Ted Leonsis no longer wanted a high-payroll team and wanted to shed Jagr's salary.

Jagr never refused to participate in a shootout. Every report stated that he told Tom Renney that he wasn't comfortable in shootouts and preferred to let someone else shoot. What the hell is wrong with that? If he was so lacking in confidence in shootouts, I have no problem with him asking out. Criticize the man for not having confidence in his abilities, but don't criticize him for bringing to Renney's attention that there probably were better SO options on the bench.

Lastly, the Aaron Ward trade may have had absolutely nothing to do with his spat with Jagr. It's not as if Ward was in line to win the Norris and was unceremoniously waived from the team- the guy had SERIOUSLY underperformed, made internal team issues public and was traded for a younger, better player. Saying he was traded because of Jagr is connecting dots that may or may not exist. Let's not forget that quote from Avery or whoever it was talking about how well the team gets together now, clearly a veiled reference to previous clubhouse strife. I'll also note that we're 6-1-3 since we traded Ward, probably our best 10-game stretch this season.

And as far as Henke keeping us in "EVERY SINGLE GAME," you obviously forgot his early season struggles with giving up the soft goals. Now, don't get me wrong, I DO think Henrik is the MVP, but he's had his problems this season, too. He's been spectacular in the second half, but don't let that totally erase all memories of his struggles early on.


Last edited by nyr2k2: 03-19-2007 at 05:29 PM.
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Old
03-19-2007, 08:59 PM
  #40
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Gretzky used to want out of any type of penalty shot... Melrose talked about that at length.. The whole shootout thing is stupid. I applaud Jagr because he was doing what he thought was best for the team.

This team is nowhere without Jagr right now, as well as Henke. It is equal in my opinion and these are the only two guys who being subtracted would result in a big time difference. Jagr causes nearly all of the offense this team sees. And that is including outside of the poewrplay.

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Old
03-19-2007, 09:17 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post

And as far as leadership, well, Jagr isn't a true team leader. I accepted that a long time ago, and I don't hold it against him. Some people just can't handle being the leader of a team.
Being a leader is a very rare skill and it has little to do with scoring. Jagr is a playful player, not a commander. He is an overgrown kid and will always be. So what?

He should have never been a captain, ... one of three A's max. That would be the perfect solution, because he does bring something to the team, doesnt he?


Last edited by unkempt: 03-19-2007 at 09:34 PM.
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