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GDT: Stars @ Predators - 3.17.07

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Old
03-18-2007, 12:00 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
nmk, not trying to be confrontational here, but why do players drop the gloves and usually wait for the other guy to the same when they decide to fight? I always understood that not dropping the gloves was a sign of cowardice or disrespect (partially due to the greater potential for injury with gloved hands hits-- those things are pretty hard)??
I'm by no means a fighter, but I don't think you'd WANT to fight with your gloves on, given how much of fighting involves using an opponent's jersey to control positioning and defend yourself. A glove is solid, but it gives. A fist doesn't.

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Old
03-18-2007, 12:05 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
I'm by no means a fighter, but I don't think you'd WANT to fight with your gloves on, given how much of fighting involves using an opponent's jersey to control positioning and defend yourself. A glove is solid, but it gives. A fist doesn't.
Okay, I can accept the grabbing the guys jersey and getting positioning argument. I've never had a fist fight, and certainly wouldn't want to be on skates trying it either. However, if I really had to choose what kind of punch to take to the face, and my only two choices were a bare hand or a hockey glove.... I still think I'd take the bare hand. I'd rank a full swing with the stick to my face as an order of magnitude worse however.

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03-18-2007, 01:15 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Okay, I can accept the grabbing the guys jersey and getting positioning argument. I've never had a fist fight, and certainly wouldn't want to be on skates trying it either. However, if I really had to choose what kind of punch to take to the face, and my only two choices were a bare hand or a hockey glove.... I still think I'd take the bare hand. I'd rank a full swing with the stick to my face as an order of magnitude worse however.

Having been in hockey fights, I'd be more willing to take a glove to the face than a fist to the face. There is foam padding inside the gloves.

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Old
03-18-2007, 01:37 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Jonesey View Post
Having been in hockey fights, I'd be more willing to take a glove to the face than a fist to the face. There is foam padding inside the gloves.

I shall defer to the experienced fighters on the board (... backs out very carefully...)

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Old
03-18-2007, 03:06 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Olaf View Post
The reason everybody in my section started booing Modano (which they had not prior) was because he slammed Toots over the head with his stick during the melee...
I saw that too but sadly, nobody wants to listen...

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03-18-2007, 03:24 PM
  #106
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I will say this: If Tootoo is suspended, Modano should be as well. If he is not........well I think it clearly shows the league's favoritism to star players.

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03-18-2007, 06:48 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
I will say this: If Tootoo is suspended, Modano should be as well. If he is not........well I think it clearly shows the league's favoritism to star players.
You know good and well Mikey Mo won't get a thing. Colin Campbell and the NHL braintrust are virtually impotent when it comes to policing the game. It's one of the very reasons why vigilante justice is so prevalent.

I haven't defended Tootoo all that much on this incident, but one thing should be noted in my opinion. Tootoo's hit on Modano was perfectly legal and clean. Why do players respond with illegal acts? (Robidas had every intention of roughing Tootoo up)

In my opinion, illegal hits on players are what should require an answer immediately. Making players pay like that for legal hits isn't right. Find a legal way to get back at Tootoo's legal act.

I feel bad for Robidas because he certainly didn't deserve the injury he received. But if you are going to commit an illegal act, I struggle to feel 100% sympathy. Tootoo had no reason to have to answer for his legal check. Robidas followed the 'code' and forced the situation. Tootoo should be punished. His response wasn't right. But the defense of Robidas by Stars fans isn't right either.

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Old
03-18-2007, 09:09 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
You know good and well Mikey Mo won't get a thing. Colin Campbell and the NHL braintrust are virtually impotent when it comes to policing the game. It's one of the very reasons why vigilante justice is so prevalent.

I haven't defended Tootoo all that much on this incident, but one thing should be noted in my opinion. Tootoo's hit on Modano was perfectly legal and clean. Why do players respond with illegal acts? (Robidas had every intention of roughing Tootoo up)

In my opinion, illegal hits on players are what should require an answer immediately. Making players pay like that for legal hits isn't right. Find a legal way to get back at Tootoo's legal act.

I feel bad for Robidas because he certainly didn't deserve the injury he received. But if you are going to commit an illegal act, I struggle to feel 100% sympathy. Tootoo had no reason to have to answer for his legal check. Robidas followed the 'code' and forced the situation. Tootoo should be punished. His response wasn't right. But the defense of Robidas by Stars fans isn't right either.

what will probably happen is that toots will get a couple of games(2~5) for throwing a punch with his gloves on and injuring robidas. the low number will probably be due to the fact robidas was on his way in to do something to toots, hence the charging minor. the nhl tends to follow with how the on-ice officials call things. toots didn't receive a match penalty, a game misconduct or even a major. i don't know of a previous incident in which a player was suspended for a double minor(remember the second minor comes when the player is injured). if robida isn't KOd, then the refs would have called offsetting minors. so you go from offsetting to suspension based on whether a player can take the punch. toots could have just covered up, turtled, sidestepped or skated away instead of throwing a punch. but we have the hindsight of slow motion replay and a lot more time to consider options. toots made a quick, if bad, choice the resulted robida getting hurt. the nhl will come down on him, but there are mitigating factors. like if robida doesn't come "charging" into toots' punch then he wouldn't have been hurt. if he had left madano(who was back on his feet) take care of it himself then he doesn't get hurt. but now we are getting into the whole 3rd man/instigator/sticking-up-for-your-team-mate-even-though-nothing-was-called/stars-don't-go. bottom line, the nhl has to send a msg that you can't just preemptively punch someone, no matter what. again like simon, better to have dropped the gloves and go rather than be third man in or punch with the gloves on. the nhl has a way to resolve this type of dispute and neither man used it. robida received his suspension at the hands of toots, toots will receive his at the hands of campbell.

nothing will happen to madano. how many roughing, slashes, elbows, boardings, etc... go uncalled during every game? campbell does not have the time nor the inclination to go back and review every camera angle from every game to see if something went uncalled and should have been penalized. only in the case of something that would be suspendable would they spend time to review. madano's slash/crosscheck/high-stick did not result in injury, so at worst that is a minor that went uncalled. sully and nichol were both injured to slashes that were not called and nothing happened to the slashers.

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Old
03-19-2007, 07:04 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
You know good and well Mikey Mo won't get a thing. Colin Campbell and the NHL braintrust are virtually impotent when it comes to policing the game. It's one of the very reasons why vigilante justice is so prevalent.

I haven't defended Tootoo all that much on this incident, but one thing should be noted in my opinion. Tootoo's hit on Modano was perfectly legal and clean. Why do players respond with illegal acts? (Robidas had every intention of roughing Tootoo up)

In my opinion, illegal hits on players are what should require an answer immediately. Making players pay like that for legal hits isn't right. Find a legal way to get back at Tootoo's legal act.

I feel bad for Robidas because he certainly didn't deserve the injury he received. But if you are going to commit an illegal act, I struggle to feel 100% sympathy. Tootoo had no reason to have to answer for his legal check. Robidas followed the 'code' and forced the situation. Tootoo should be punished. His response wasn't right. But the defense of Robidas by Stars fans isn't right either.
You know as well as I do that players are going to defend their super stars. More and more often recently players have begun to run at Modano just because he's scoring more (rightfully so, that's what they should do) and every time our players answer by getting into a fight. This is hockey. They are going to set up for one another.

I see no reason not to defend Robidas in this action. He turned around and was going to fight Tootoo. He was going to drove the glove, which he should've gone, and take on Tootoo. But Tootoo didn't even give him that chance. That's what we're more pissed about than anything. Robidas did nothing illegal except turn around and try to stick up for his fellow teammate.

If you want a perfect example for players sticking up for their team look at that Buffalo/Ottawa game. That whole thing started over the Ottawa players performing a legal hit on Drury and knocking him out.

On the Modano stick situation, yes he does deserve atleast a game suspension. But still that leaves no reason to leave your glove on and punch a guy. Tootoo keeps using that as an excuse. Leaving your glove on and punching a guy right in the face, is worse than taking your glove off.

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Old
03-19-2007, 08:43 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
I see no reason not to defend Robidas in this action. He turned around and was going to fight Tootoo. He was going to drove the glove, which he should've gone, and take on Tootoo. But Tootoo didn't even give him that chance. That's what we're more pissed about than anything. Robidas did nothing illegal except turn around and try to stick up for his fellow teammate.
1) Robidas was coming in and still had his gloves on which means he was going to take a shot at tootoo first then possibly drop his gloves. The intent was there to do something, he just didnt get the opportunity to follow through on said intent. Yes it is admirable and right to stick up for your fellow teammate but by no means does "sticking up for my boy" absolve him from accepting his part in the occurance.

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Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
On the Modano stick situation, yes he does deserve atleast a game suspension.
2) Modano doesnt deserve a suspension at all, he stopped himself from doing something idiotic at the last second, at most he deserved a minor penalty for slashing or high sticking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
But still that leaves no reason to leave your glove on and punch a guy. Tootoo keeps using that as an excuse. Leaving your glove on and punching a guy right in the face, is worse than taking your glove off.
3) SINCE WHEN? I've played hockey for comin on 20 years and never once would i welcome a shot in the face from a bare knuckled fist over a padded glove. if Tootoo had his glove off for that punch Robidas might have a broken jaw or nose along with that concussion and Tootoo would have had a broken hand.

and finally

4) Quit calling this a "sucker Punch" by its very nature a sucker punch comes at you blind sided either from behind or the side where the player cant see it coming. Robidas got cold cocked by a haymaker, but he was lookin right at it when it happened. That is not a sucker punch. I was very happy when Big Head Bob pointed that out sunday afternoon

If Tootoo gets more than 1-3 games for this the NHL should feel shame at its own ineptness. How many games did ovechkin get for that check from behind that sent briere i think into the boards.......Its easy to stamp your feet and make noise around your fringe players

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Old
03-19-2007, 08:49 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
nmk, not trying to be confrontational here, but why do players drop the gloves and usually wait for the other guy to the same when they decide to fight? I always understood that not dropping the gloves was a sign of cowardice or disrespect (partially due to the greater potential for injury with gloved hands hits-- those things are pretty hard)??
Your right about not dropping the gloves..... They wait till the other guy drops his stuff because thats what MEN do, this wasnt a bar fight....... And yes Mike should recieve a little vacation time as well.. Althought I have watch the vid maybe 5 or 6 times and I have yet to see it come near his head. He did however catch him squarely across the back and should go as well...But not waiting for the other guy to drop , well we have been warned so I will not say too much, but it is less than what a man would do...

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03-19-2007, 12:12 PM
  #112
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just my 2 cents here...i'm a Sharks fan and after the video of Tootoo....So What...thats hockey....Maybe if Robidas came in and dropped the gloves, instead of taking a run at 22, he wouldnt have been knocked out....

Robidas was taking a run at 22 and 22 reacted to protect himself....AND BTW...what about Madonna and his stick to the bacfk fo 22?? Madonna..you're a ***** Madonna..take the hit...or drop the gloves ...

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Old
03-19-2007, 07:52 PM
  #113
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in all the anti-pred, anti/pro tootoo and modano rhetoric, it's easy to overlook the fact that we won a mighty important game the other night...

arnott and forsberg make us a much better personnel match against the stars than we've ever been honestly, something we cann't forget heading into the playoffs. for the first time, our center position is stronger than theirs, giving them real matchup problems even strength...

detroit at calgary tomorrow night in detroit's game at hand... calgary with the best home record in the NHL, but stumbling here down the stretch now only 4 points ahead of colorado for the last playoff spot.. calgary beat the wings at home 4-1 in their other home game against them early this year.. calgary getting themsleves in quite the nervous spot here with colorado, having only 4 more home games, and having to play the avs twice in april... so you know calgary will show up with tons of intensity (as they will against us thursday as well)..

winning at least two of three on this road trip is what we need to do... but man, that's a pretty tall order even though we swept it the first time this year...

sullivan's status still up in the air.. see where trotz said if he was ready, he would travel if the team.. if not, don't expect him the entire three game trip.. we desperately need to get him back in this lineup..

would expect vokoun wednesday and then mason thursday... that way you come back with a fresh vokoun on saturday against edmonton... a mighty tough back-to-back on the road in van/cal. mighty tough.

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Old
03-19-2007, 07:54 PM
  #114
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and might as well post this from yesterday;

a little game talk...

...we played a fine game last night in lots of areas. scoring the first goal, making them play from behind was huge. answering their tieing goal with a quick pp goal of our own was huge. scoring wtih 7 seconds to go was huge. notice how not falling behind, we had no trouble generating scoring chances and shots in general, because we made them skate with us in an open game. this is the way you beat dallas, play from ahead and this is just another team.

...we didn't turn the puck over in the neutral zone. this nullified their counterattack ability that they rely on even strength.

...having said that, we did make three of the worst turnovers you can imagine right in the slot trying to pass or clear the puck straight up the middle of the ice.. hamhuis twice and forsberg once with passes knocked down or intercepted right on the doorstep in the low slot that turned into immediate onetimers or scoring chances. you simply cann't do this 3 times in a game, we were extremely fortunate on two of them in that vokoun came up and made two point blank saves. not as lucky on their last goal that made this a game, when hamhuis's clear was knocked down and turned into a bang-bang two on none.

...at first glance, legwand didn't play well or do anything noteworthy. however he was given the assignment of shutting down modano and he did just that. no even strength shots for modano all night (both shots and goals on the pp). directly the result of good defense, we simply took him out of the game even strength.

...tootoo is going to get suspended, and it's a shame in that he has played his best hockey of his career these last two or three games. a big first goal, looked like a goalscorers shot from that hard angle up high over a sprawled turco. turco with a bad, dangerous play in that situation with that much traffic, diving to poke check the puck away from abid. but good effort on abid and tootoo's part to get the goal nevertheless.

...vokoun with some great athletic saves last night. probably his best game in three months honestly. have no idea how he got post to post to make that save on the 5 on 3 when the pass goes hard across the crease to a wide open guy on the far doorstep. made another like that in the third even strength as well in one of their flurries when the guy tried the wraparound to the far post. not a good goal on the first unscreened modano one, but more than made up for several times last night.

...maybe, just maybe trotz knew exactly what he was doing motivating vokoun by his comments this past week about the goalie situation. if last night was a result of that, well...

...zanon. played a good game in his zone once they were set up. what you have to worry about with zanon showed twice last night. he's vulnerable out in open ice near the blueline when they break into the zone with speed. the first modano goal, he simply blew by zanon (and fiddler) to get the open shot from the faceoff dot (that admittedly vokoun should have stopped). and then he was the one that got beat in open ice on the pk by jokinen that caused him to dive, take the penalty and put them on the 5 on 3. this is the only area where you have to worry about zanon, out at the blueline. of course, for most slower stay at home guys this is true.

...turco with a whiff on the timonen goal on the shot from the blueline for the huge gamechanging third goal. timonen's shot was a perfect knucklepuck, you could see it darting up and down and sideways. simply beat turco. made me think of a catcher trying to catch phil neikro (read tim wakefield for young guys).

...forsberg with a great cross-box pass to timonen skating down the backdoor on the pp. that pp look from the left-halfboard gives lots of teams trouble, mainly because most teams run everything from the right and that's where pk get used to playing against. so you get guys on the pk in territory they're not used to seeing regularly. the farside of their pk made bad coverage mistakes as a result. some more long saucer pass thru sticks right oonto the tape of timonen though.

all in all a great win, unfortunately somewhat overshadowed by the trouble late. which will be all anyone around the league talks about. but... a much needed win against a team we might play at some future more critical time

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