HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Dubinsky vs Malhotra

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-19-2007, 12:40 PM
  #1
alkurtz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mahopac, NY
Posts: 880
vCash: 500
Dubinsky vs Malhotra

I was wondering what everyone thinks about a talent comparison between Manny Malhotra and Brandon Dubinsky.
As much as I hate to admit it, as I never disliked a coach more than I disliked John Muckler, he was right-on in his accessment of Malhotra as eventually being a 3rd liner. In a between periods interview when the Jackets were in MSG a few weeks ago, Manny was asked about his game and he said that he was primarily a defensive center who used his size, strength and forechecking ability against the other teams top centers and he liked to be on the ice in the last few minutes with the game on the line.
I remember the buzz around Manny when he was picked at #7 in 1998: he had all the intangibles (intelligence, leadership ability) and physical attributes to be a mainstay of the team for years. There seemed to be few doubters about Manny. While he never was a big scorer in junior, it was hoped he would develop a scoring touch. Did the Rangers misuse him or has he become the player he was meant to be? He made the team in 98 after a good camp and because the Rangers were so thin at center. Over the next few years he seemed to be with the Rangers when he should have been in the AHL and at other times was with Hartford when he should have been with the big club, the poster child for Ranger misuse of youth. Overall however, his career has been a disappointment for someone drafted so high.

Dubinsky and Malhotra are about the same size. While Brandon scored more in junior than Malhotra did, he never put up really big numbers (78, 59, 67 points in his last three years in the WHL vs. 51 and 44 pts for Manny in his two years in the OHL). Manny seemed to be more of a power skater than Brandon is. Brandon seems to have more on ice awareness than Manny did.

So, what will Brandon's career track be? Does he have the offensive skills and talents to be a #2 center? I thought Manny did, but it never happened. Will Brandon end up a #3 center? I have not made up my mind yet, but I think the comparison between the 2 is worth talking about.

alkurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 12:45 PM
  #2
Choice
Registered User
 
Choice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: nyc
Country: Lithuania
Posts: 3,459
vCash: 500
I dont see much of a comparison. We heard hype about Manny from the day he was drafted, we didnt start hearing about Dubinsky until a year or two after. Manny was in the NHL from 18 years old, Dubinsky has had time to mature in juniors and the AHL, and will probably need more time in the AHL before he gets a regular NHL shift. From what i've seen though, Dubi has more offensive skills but seems to be less solidly built.

Choice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 12:51 PM
  #3
Nich
Registered User
 
Nich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Long Beach, NY
Country: Croatia
Posts: 6,886
vCash: 500
manny was a 3rd liner, and i see dubinsky as a 2nd liner.

Nich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 12:51 PM
  #4
wereback
Registered User
 
wereback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 620
vCash: 500
If you've watched them skate.....there is no comparison

wereback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 01:00 PM
  #5
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,265
vCash: 500
The main problem was rushing Manny into the NHL. If he had gone back into juniors even for one season he might have become more of an offensive player. Muckler's assessment of him as turned out to be dead on however how John himself handled him particularly in his second season was horrible. He basically didn't use him to get even with Smith who was trying to fire him. That particular draft was not a very strong one--we did miss out on Simon Gagne who went late in the first but there were quite a number of busts in the first two rounds.

As for Dubinsky he has been given a chance to develop his game--and not been pigeon holed as a this or a that. I think he has an upside now as a potential 2nd line center--whether he reaches that or not remains to be seen at this point but he seems to me to be a safe bet at least as a good 3rd line center with some offensive skill.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 01:02 PM
  #6
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,276
vCash: 500
I would say that they are each others complete opposites.

Malhotra is extremely athletic, skates really well, Dubinsky got it mostly in his head, he is extremely strong on the puck and got a very sharp mind offensivly.

They are very diffrent types.

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 01:09 PM
  #7
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,779
vCash: 500
Awards:
Manny was in a completely different situation. He came to a bad team and was the victim of being overly-hyped by the GM (Manny had never scored like Smith said he would) and a coach who trashed him before he ever played an NHL. He was also rushed to the NHL in order to appease the thirst for youth on this team.

Dubinsky didn't leave juniors early. He spent time in the AHL. He is coming to a good team (albeit in a playoff push) and he is being put into situations that give him the best chance for success.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 01:12 PM
  #8
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,050
vCash: 873
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
I was wondering what everyone thinks about a talent comparison between Manny Malhotra and Brandon Dubinsky.
As much as I hate to admit it, as I never disliked a coach more than I disliked John Muckler, he was right-on in his accessment of Malhotra as eventually being a 3rd liner. In a between periods interview when the Jackets were in MSG a few weeks ago, Manny was asked about his game and he said that he was primarily a defensive center who used his size, strength and forechecking ability against the other teams top centers and he liked to be on the ice in the last few minutes with the game on the line.
I remember the buzz around Manny when he was picked at #7 in 1998: he had all the intangibles (intelligence, leadership ability) and physical attributes to be a mainstay of the team for years. There seemed to be few doubters about Manny. While he never was a big scorer in junior, it was hoped he would develop a scoring touch. Did the Rangers misuse him or has he become the player he was meant to be? He made the team in 98 after a good camp and because the Rangers were so thin at center. Over the next few years he seemed to be with the Rangers when he should have been in the AHL and at other times was with Hartford when he should have been with the big club, the poster child for Ranger misuse of youth. Overall however, his career has been a disappointment for someone drafted so high.

Dubinsky and Malhotra are about the same size. While Brandon scored more in junior than Malhotra did, he never put up really big numbers (78, 59, 67 points in his last three years in the WHL vs. 51 and 44 pts for Manny in his two years in the OHL). Manny seemed to be more of a power skater than Brandon is. Brandon seems to have more on ice awareness than Manny did.

So, what will Brandon's career track be? Does he have the offensive skills and talents to be a #2 center? I thought Manny did, but it never happened. Will Brandon end up a #3 center? I have not made up my mind yet, but I think the comparison between the 2 is worth talking about.
Manny never was thought to be an offensive player. He didn't show it in Jr.'s and it never materialized in the NHL. The fact was that Neil Smith tried to force feed the kid to Muckler and Muckler kind of screwed the pooch in his handling of the kid while in NY.

The fact is that Malhotra, through all the BS, has become the player we all expected him to become. A 4th line forward/PK'er that is solid defensively. He's basically a better version of Blair Betts. He's more physical, better offensively just still not 3rd line material.

They were both drafted in the same year and Manny has almost 300 more games played and exactly 100 more points.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 01:33 PM
  #9
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,050
vCash: 873
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The main problem was rushing Manny into the NHL. If he had gone back into juniors even for one season he might have become more of an offensive player. Muckler's assessment of him as turned out to be dead on however how John himself handled him particularly in his second season was horrible. He basically didn't use him to get even with Smith who was trying to fire him. That particular draft was not a very strong one--we did miss out on Simon Gagne who went late in the first but there were quite a number of busts in the first two rounds.

As for Dubinsky he has been given a chance to develop his game--and not been pigeon holed as a this or a that. I think he has an upside now as a potential 2nd line center--whether he reaches that or not remains to be seen at this point but he seems to me to be a safe bet at least as a good 3rd line center with some offensive skill.
Not for nothing, but Tanguay, Gomez, Brad Richards, Erik Cole, Brian Gionta, Shawn Horcoff, Martin Skoula, Demitri Kalinin, Robyn Regher, Mark Bell,

all in bold were drafted in the 1st round. The others were taken in the next 3 rounds.

That's just the guys drafted after Manny. It (1998) was a solid enough draft year. 1997 wasn't any better, in fact it was worse as was 1999

Neil Smith didn't do himself any favors in those 3 draft years, although Stefan Cherneski was a freak accident.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 01:50 PM
  #10
SML
Registered User
 
SML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 3,743
vCash: 500
It's sad what this organization put Malhotra through. He was taken too high, plain and simple, for what he projected out to be. You don't take defensive forwards in the top 10. While the organization raved about his maturity, that's all well and good, but when you get to the pros, that's no longer a unique asset, and even the most mature 18 year old is not going to be all that mature when you put him on a team of 30 somethings. He scored a few goals and all of a sudden the team was hanging it's hat on him as the next great thing. I hated Muckler but the guy nailed this one. All that said, if the team had any patience, Manny would have really fit in nicely with this group, IMO. There is no way they should have dealt him for the weak return they got for him. He's a solid character player and it's a tribute to that fact that he could even go through the screwing the Rangers gave him and even still be in this league.

SML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 01:57 PM
  #11
in the hall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Manny was in a completely different situation. He came to a bad team and was the victim of being overly-hyped by the GM (Manny had never scored like Smith said he would) and a coach who trashed him before he ever played an NHL. He was also rushed to the NHL in order to appease the thirst for youth on this team.

Dubinsky didn't leave juniors early. He spent time in the AHL. He is coming to a good team (albeit in a playoff push) and he is being put into situations that give him the best chance for success.
Manny was also much more ahead on the development curve than Dubinsky at 18.. Dubinsky turned into the prospect he is now, and he has a bright future, Manny regressed and probably to do with the Rangers mishandling him

I don't think Manny was a third liner to be, I think he had more of a role in his future.. think Scott Hartnell

imo both players don't even compare not just for the reasons state, obvious differences in development/hype etc, but their games are not alike.. Dubinsky clearly has offensive talent and he does have more of a scoring role in his future than Manny ever would have

in the hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 02:00 PM
  #12
in the hall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SML View Post
It's sad what this organization put Malhotra through. He was taken too high, plain and simple, for what he projected out to be. You don't take defensive forwards in the top 10. While the organization raved about his maturity, that's all well and good, but when you get to the pros, that's no longer a unique asset, and even the most mature 18 year old is not going to be all that mature when you put him on a team of 30 somethings. He scored a few goals and all of a sudden the team was hanging it's hat on him as the next great thing. I hated Muckler but the guy nailed this one. All that said, if the team had any patience, Manny would have really fit in nicely with this group, IMO. There is no way they should have dealt him for the weak return they got for him. He's a solid character player and it's a tribute to that fact that he could even go through the screwing the Rangers gave him and even still be in this league.
he was a consensus top 10 pick.. it had more to do with what his upside would be, it had to do with the level of risk there.. he was ready to play in the NHL and people felt he would develop to his potential fairly quickly considering his maturity and development to that point

in the hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 02:08 PM
  #13
SML
Registered User
 
SML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 3,743
vCash: 500
You know every year there is a consensus top 10 pick that in retrospect doesn't belong there. Alot of the players taken in the 98 draft did not pan out as planned. It's not a big deal. Chances are if we didn't take Manny, we would have missed completely on somebody else who was supposed to be this or that. Alot of teams swung and missed that year.

SML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 02:11 PM
  #14
shoothepuck
88
 
shoothepuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: upstate
Country: Italy
Posts: 12,197
vCash: 500
Don't think the 2 should be compaired, as the situations are different. Malholtra got the hype, and all the mismanagement aside, and has become what he is a 4th liner. Brandon has the potential to be a 2nd liner, and only time will tell if he can play to his potential.

shoothepuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 02:29 PM
  #15
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Malhotra? Why? Forget about Manny... The guy looks even better then Savard as far as abilities are concerned and has better size. The comparison is insulting to Dubi.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 02:30 PM
  #16
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,050
vCash: 873
.

all I know is that NS should have taken the trade offer from the Avs

their next 2 first rounders in that draft (we could have had Tanguay and Regher)

but NS got greedy and demanded all 4 of Colorado's first rounders that year


pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 02:34 PM
  #17
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,050
vCash: 873
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Malhotra? Why? Forget about Manny... The guy looks even better then Savard as far as abilities are concerned and has better size. The comparison is insulting to Dubi.
I like Dubinsky, but there's no way he's as good now as Savard was at the same age.

Savard was scoring on the same pace as Joe Thornton in Jr.'s and was an offensive whiz.

In fact he took an old and decrepit Kevin Stevens and made him a 20+ goal scorer in his first season in the NHL. Marc Savard is, was and will be much better offensively than Dubinsky.

Brandon will top out to being a very good 2nd line center, Marc Savard is a top line pivot, I'd place him in the top half of the NHL right now.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 02:49 PM
  #18
in the hall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I like Dubinsky, but there's no way he's as good now as Savard was at the same age.

Savard was scoring on the same pace as Joe Thornton in Jr.'s and was an offensive whiz.

In fact he took an old and decrepit Kevin Stevens and made him a 20+ goal scorer in his first season in the NHL. Marc Savard is, was and will be much better offensively than Dubinsky.

Brandon will top out to being a very good 2nd line center, Marc Savard is a top line pivot, I'd place him in the top half of the NHL right now.
agreed, savard looked great offensively

in the hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 03:03 PM
  #19
nyranger61494
YNWA
 
nyranger61494's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
all I know is that NS should have taken the trade offer from the Avs

their next 2 first rounders in that draft (we could have had Tanguay and Regher)

but NS got greedy and demanded all 4 of Colorado's first rounders that year

What's this?

nyranger61494 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 03:40 PM
  #20
Tawnos
Moderator
BoH Mod Only
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 11,242
vCash: 500
I think the comparison is sound... if only because what people claim in hindsight was Malhotra's upside, that was Dubinsky's upside at 18 too. Players develop differently, and had Manny stayed in Jrs, there are about even odds that he would've turned into a player with similar offensive upside to Dubinsky's. Let's not forget that more than one scout was whispering Messier-alike potential before that draft and after it too. What you CANNOT compare is Dubinsky at 20 (almost 21) in the NHL to Malhotra at 18.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 04:23 PM
  #21
alkurtz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mahopac, NY
Posts: 880
vCash: 500
I remember watching the draft and the Rangers being on the clock for their pick. I remember the cameras showing Neil Smith on the phone and Colorado's GM on the phone and the commentators saying that they were talking to each other and that Colorado was trying to trade up in order to draft Manny. But you know what? With the way the Rangers developed talent, it wouldn't have mattered who they drafted...they would have ruined him.

I'm just wondering if we're jumping the gun with Dubinsky. I love the guy....loved what I saw in training camp, loved what I saw when I saw him play for the Pack, was ecstatic with how he played last week and want him to be here getting serious minutes the rest of the year. I do, however, have some doubts about his offensive abilities and wonder whether he will be a #2 or #3 center. I sure hope it's a #2. Its those doubts that made me think of Malhotra and how he never developed how I'd hoped.
Nothing could make me happier than see him become a productive offensive force.
Yup, I remember those Messier comparisons too. Even had the same initials.

alkurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 05:02 PM
  #22
Taz
Registered User
 
Taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Letchworth
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,235
vCash: 500
I think Manny has become very solid, and would rather he be here then Betts for damn sure

Taz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 06:21 PM
  #23
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz View Post
I think Manny has become very solid, and would rather he be here then Betts for damn sure
They are essentially interchangable players IMO.

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 06:53 PM
  #24
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,779
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz View Post
I think Manny has become very solid, and would rather he be here then Betts for damn sure
I hardly think that saying you'd rather have Manny over the current fourth line center we have is hardly a ringing endorsement.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2007, 07:02 PM
  #25
ATLANTARANGER*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta, B&R in NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
I was wondering what everyone thinks about a talent comparison between Manny Malhotra and Brandon Dubinsky.
As much as I hate to admit it, as I never disliked a coach more than I disliked John Muckler, he was right-on in his accessment of Malhotra as eventually being a 3rd liner. In a between periods interview when the Jackets were in MSG a few weeks ago, Manny was asked about his game and he said that he was primarily a defensive center who used his size, strength and forechecking ability against the other teams top centers and he liked to be on the ice in the last few minutes with the game on the line.
I remember the buzz around Manny when he was picked at #7 in 1998: he had all the intangibles (intelligence, leadership ability) and physical attributes to be a mainstay of the team for years. There seemed to be few doubters about Manny. While he never was a big scorer in junior, it was hoped he would develop a scoring touch. Did the Rangers misuse him or has he become the player he was meant to be? He made the team in 98 after a good camp and because the Rangers were so thin at center. Over the next few years he seemed to be with the Rangers when he should have been in the AHL and at other times was with Hartford when he should have been with the big club, the poster child for Ranger misuse of youth. Overall however, his career has been a disappointment for someone drafted so high.

Dubinsky and Malhotra are about the same size. While Brandon scored more in junior than Malhotra did, he never put up really big numbers (78, 59, 67 points in his last three years in the WHL vs. 51 and 44 pts for Manny in his two years in the OHL). Manny seemed to be more of a power skater than Brandon is. Brandon seems to have more on ice awareness than Manny did.

So, what will Brandon's career track be? Does he have the offensive skills and talents to be a #2 center? I thought Manny did, but it never happened. Will Brandon end up a #3 center? I have not made up my mind yet, but I think the comparison between the 2 is worth talking about.
The change in the whole organization has changed. Manny didn't have a pray. Dubi has benefitted from the complete reorganization. Plus Dubi is a better offensive player.

ATLANTARANGER* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.