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McKenzie: What is a sucker punch?

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Old
03-19-2007, 08:35 AM
  #1
DocMcKay
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McKenzie: What is a sucker punch?

http://www.tsn.ca/tsn_talent/columnists/bob_mckenzie/

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03-19-2007, 09:12 AM
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Enoch
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Fair article, although I really do not see how this is worthy of 5 or more games......

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03-19-2007, 09:58 AM
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I agree. The article is only fair at best.

But I do agree with him on the short definition on a sucker punch which Tootoo's punch was not.

All the speculation on the length of Tootoo's suspension is just speculation. We'll find out what the NHL decides to do soon enough.

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03-19-2007, 11:01 AM
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My purpose here isn't to troll, just to point out that I believe McKenzie doesn't know the definition of a sucker punch (poor guy is a bit senile).

Link with definition

Quote:
sucker punch

An unexpected blow, as in They felt that suddenly raising the interest rate was a sucker punch to the administration. This expression comes from boxing, where it is used for a punch delivered unexpectedly; boxing great Jack Dempsey wrote, "The right lead [for a right-handed boxer] is called a sucker punch." [Slang; mid-1900s]
To sucker punch somebody means hitting them when they don't expect it. What McKenzie describes is blindsiding somebody - hitting them when they can't see it. Two totally different things.

Did Tootoo deliver a blindside hit? No. Was it a sucker punch? I believe, yes. It was such a surprise that the recipient didn't do anything to defend himself, thus he was out cold. So I'm thinking a suspension in the 10 game range is appropriate.

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03-19-2007, 11:35 AM
  #5
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I wouldn't call it a sucker punch so much as a preemptive strike

Robidas may not have seen that punch coming, but trust me he was expecting punches to come fairly soon.

That being said everyone here on the Nashville board hopes Robidas will be OK.

The last thing Nashville wants or needs is this bad press. The Predators have had a great image in Nashville for most part (other than attendance). We already have Titans "making it rain" and giving us a bad image.

We don't approve of dirty or illegal actions.

Tootoo will and should be suspended. How long? I'll leave that to the NHL.

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03-19-2007, 02:11 PM
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Tootoo will and should be suspended. How long? I'll leave that to the NHL.[/QUOTE]



I still disagree.


I guess Tootoo should have just let Robidas railroad him?

SR would have had time to see the hit coming if he werent barreling down on him.

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03-19-2007, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnlikestars View Post
I still disagree.


I guess Tootoo should have just let Robidas railroad him?

SR would have had time to see the hit coming if he werent barreling down on him.
You're making an assumption though, that Robidas would have done something dirty or cheap to Tootoo. It was obvious his intent was to confront, but we'll never know what actions he would have taken because of Tootoo's preemptive strike. You can't claim what Tootoo did was in self defense. So the only option is to suspend the player who actually did do something dirty.

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03-19-2007, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
You're making an assumption though, that Robidas would have done something dirty or cheap to Tootoo. It was obvious his intent was to confront, but we'll never know what actions he would have taken because of Tootoo's preemptive strike. You can't claim what Tootoo did was in self defense. So the only option is to suspend the player who actually did do something dirty.
You absolutely can! And this isn't my claim. This has been legally tested. Police officers, on several occasions, have been fully absolved of wrongdoing for shooting a suspect when he reaches into his coat after he's told to put his hands in the air. Now, this is on a much less severe level, but I think Tootoo has every right to assume that Robidas is going to facewash him or rough him up in some way. In fact, I'd say that's a pretty safe assumption to make. He certainly wasn't going in to chat. I think Tootoo's response was certainly stronger than necessary (think shooting someone charging at you with a wiffle bat), but you can certainly claim self defense. Tootoo deserves several games for this. But its just foolish to assume that Robidas wasn't going to do something dirty. Short of scolding Toots, there's not much he can do in that situation that wouldn’t be 'dirty.'

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03-19-2007, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
You absolutely can! And this isn't my claim. This has been legally tested. Police officers, on several occasions, have been fully absolved of wrongdoing for shooting a suspect when he reaches into his coat after he's told to put his hands in the air. Now, this is on a much less severe level, but I think Tootoo has every right to assume that Robidas is going to facewash him or rough him up in some way. In fact, I'd say that's a pretty safe assumption to make. He certainly wasn't going in to chat. I think Tootoo's response was certainly stronger than necessary (think shooting someone charging at you with a wiffle bat), but you can certainly claim self defense. Tootoo deserves several games for this. But its just foolish to assume that Robidas wasn't going to do something dirty. Short of scolding Toots, there's not much he can do in that situation that wouldn’t be 'dirty.'
I completely disagree with you. To compare what happened to a situation police face is way off base.

What if Robidas came over to give Tootoo a little shove and ask him to go? Settle it like men. That would be the correct way to resolve the situation. Delivering a sucker punch is not. Tootoo instantaneously jumped to a conclusion and he's sitting 5 games for it. A light punishment imho, but ironically he's back just in time for a rematch with Dallas.

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03-19-2007, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
I completely disagree with you. To compare what happened to a situation police face is way off base.

What if Robidas came over to give Tootoo a little shove and ask him to go? Settle it like men. That would be the correct way to resolve the situation. Delivering a sucker punch is not. Tootoo instantaneously jumped to a conclusion and he's sitting 5 games for it. A light punishment imho, but ironically he's back just in time for a rematch with Dallas.
His analogy is extreme, but it holds up. If someone runs up to a police officer to show them the gun they just found in the bushes, there's a great chance he's going to get shot. Were his intentions benign? Yes, but that's not what goes through a cop's head.

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03-19-2007, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
I completely disagree with you. To compare what happened to a situation police face is way off base.

What if Robidas came over to give Tootoo a little shove and ask him to go? Settle it like men. That would be the correct way to resolve the situation. Delivering a sucker punch is not. Tootoo instantaneously jumped to a conclusion and he's sitting 5 games for it. A light punishment imho, but ironically he's back just in time for a rematch with Dallas.
Actually, if you look at the parallels, it's spot on. This is always the danger of comparing a life and death matter with something else. It can be difficult for people to wrap their brains around the analogy instead of the reality. But I'll spell out the analogy with crayons, so to speak.

They both were faced with a situation that forced them to make a snap reaction because of the aggressive actions of another. Both the cop and Tootoo could wait around for the full breadth of the aggressive actions to enveil themselves. Of course, for the cop, it could mean death. For Tootoo, it could mean getting completely clobbered.

Both are going to make a split second decision. For the cop, it is reasonable to conclude that the person in question has bad intentions. And he reacts by discharging his firearm. The same can be said for Tootoo though on a much more benign level. He recognizes the bad intentions and reacts.

Now, he reacted with a lot more force than the situation called for. But I was never attempting to absolve Tootoo of wrongdoing, just merely discount your foolish (and I'm being quite nice here) assertion that burnslikestars cannot claim self defense. And I think I've done so fairly effectively.

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03-20-2007, 09:49 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
Actually, if you look at the parallels, it's spot on. This is always the danger of comparing a life and death matter with something else. It can be difficult for people to wrap their brains around the analogy instead of the reality. But I'll spell out the analogy with crayons, so to speak.

They both were faced with a situation that forced them to make a snap reaction because of the aggressive actions of another. Both the cop and Tootoo could wait around for the full breadth of the aggressive actions to enveil themselves. Of course, for the cop, it could mean death. For Tootoo, it could mean getting completely clobbered.

Both are going to make a split second decision. For the cop, it is reasonable to conclude that the person in question has bad intentions. And he reacts by discharging his firearm. The same can be said for Tootoo though on a much more benign level. He recognizes the bad intentions and reacts.

Now, he reacted with a lot more force than the situation called for. But I was never attempting to absolve Tootoo of wrongdoing, just merely discount your foolish (and I'm being quite nice here) assertion that burnslikestars cannot claim self defense. And I think I've done so fairly effectively.


Whatever. I guess you (and Tootoo) expected Robidas to go Simon and deliver a blow with his stick... because that's the only threat Tootoo could possibly have faced that would require such a violent reaction as sucker punching someone. I'll leave it at that because this is not friendly territory, and I feel the suspension vindicates my position quite well.

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03-20-2007, 09:50 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
His analogy is extreme, but it holds up. If someone runs up to a police officer to show them the gun they just found in the bushes, there's a great chance he's going to get shot. Were his intentions benign? Yes, but that's not what goes through a cop's head.
Uhm yeah, Robidas had a weapon and was threatening Tootoo with bodily harm

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03-20-2007, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
Uhm yeah, Robidas had a weapon and was threatening Tootoo with bodily harm
and "umm yeah, like tootoo shot robidas in self defense."

Are you aware of what an analogy is?

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03-20-2007, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post


Whatever. I guess you (and Tootoo) expected Robidas to go Simon and deliver a blow with his stick... because that's the only threat Tootoo could possibly have faced that would require such a violent reaction as sucker punching someone. I'll leave it at that because this is not friendly territory, and I feel the suspension vindicates my position quite well.
Is that really the only threat that would have merited Tootoo's response because I beg to differ. If he thought that Robidas was going to punch him, I would certainly feel his response was, in some way, justified. It's not what I think would have happen, but you could hardly call Tootoo crazy for interpretting the situation in such a way.

But, once again, that was never the point of my initial argument with you. But I'll take you 'whatever' comment as a concession on that point.

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03-20-2007, 01:28 PM
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Enoch
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I think it should also be pointed out to doublejack that Tootoo was in an extremely vulnerable position near the boards, and Robidas was coming in quickly....

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