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05-26-2014, 01:11 PM
  #251
DecadesofFutility
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I had no idea Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Meszaros (before the injuries), etc. were spare parts.
Of course Pronger and Timonen are not spare parts, they were major peices.
But the rest are complimentary parts at best.
Some would claim they are overpaid 3rd liners all.

Timonen is not enough to carry this whole defense.
He was not enough after Pronger's injury and he definately is not enough now,
assuming he resigns.

I can see this defense looking like that mess of 2012 without some retooling before the season.

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05-26-2014, 01:11 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
If thats the case then they bettter spend the whole off season working on thier skating.
Because either they improve their skating or watch the rest of the league skate circles around them
I didnt say draft a bunch of ice skaters and try to teach them hockey.
Lets keep drafting slower and less skilled players its worked so well in the last 39 years.
That's not in the same stratosphere as what you originally wrote.

No one's going to argue that drafting potato-sacks like Mathers and Klotz were a waste of assets. The team should always draft for skill because that's what it really comes down to. But, to prioritize skating (like you originally suggested) I maintain would be idiotic.

The rest of your post is melodramatic nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Of course Pronger and Timonen are not spare parts, they were major peices.
But the rest are complimentary parts at best.
Some would claim they are overpaid 3rd liners all.

Timonen is not enough to carry this whole defense.
He was not enough after Pronger's injury and he definately is not enough now,
assuming he resigns.

I can see this defense looking like that mess of 2012 without some retooling before the season.
Unless Hextall performs open-heart surgery on this defensive corps., we're going to be looking at the same mess... if we're lucky. And assuming he does, there isn't a poster here that's going to like the price-tag it'll come with. The only thing the Flyers can do is continue to draft well, and hope that they can find a replacement from within. Maybe we'll get lucky, like we did with Timonen, like we did with Pronger, and some team will cut ties. But, we can't rely on that happening.

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05-26-2014, 01:13 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
If thats the case then they bettter spend the whole off season working on thier skating.
Because either they improve their skating or watch the rest of the league skate circles around them
I didnt say draft a bunch of ice skaters and try to teach them hockey.
Lets keep drafting slower and less skilled players its worked so well in the last 39 years.
Are you like this about every draft pick, or do just have a hard on for Dougie and/or don't value Couts? Do you complain that we should have drafted Oli Maata instead of Laughton, McD instead of JVR, Carlson over Sbisa, etc?

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05-26-2014, 01:15 PM
  #254
LegionOfDoom91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Of course Pronger and Timonen are not spare parts, they were major peices.
But the rest are complimentary parts at best.
Some would claim they are overpaid 3rd liners all.


They were all legit top 4 defenders making around $4M something.

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05-26-2014, 01:19 PM
  #255
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General consensus was that we were contenders for best D group in the damned league.

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05-26-2014, 01:20 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post


They were all legit top 4 defenders making around $4M something.
Exactly, in what world are Carle or Coburn third pairing guys? Pronger - Carle and Timonen - Coburn was a great top four us, and one of the best in the league.

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05-26-2014, 01:24 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
General consensus was that we were contenders for best D group in the damned league.
I remember going into the 2011-2012 season thinking that our defense would have to carry us, and that we'd be a real low scoring team. I thought that we'd make the playoffs, but only because of our elite defense. Especially with Bryz in net, who I wasn't all that familiar with yet.

In hindsight, my prediction was a bit off.

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05-26-2014, 01:34 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Switch out couturier for Hamilton and this isn't a playoff team.
You could be right, maybe having Hamilton instead of Coots makes this team less successful this year.
And if the Flyers do not make the playoff atleast they will get a better draft pick.
Since, they are years from competing with LA or Boston for a cup, why not
develop a highly promising defenseman.
I would just would rather have Hamiliton with his pedigree than any of our dman prospects.

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05-26-2014, 01:51 PM
  #259
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What is with you and Hamilton. We picked couturier, not many people would do otherwise. He's one of the best defensive forwards around. Couturier is more valuable to this team than Hamilton would be.

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05-26-2014, 01:56 PM
  #260
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If ya go back and read Boston's draft day thread, the majority of them were pushing for Couturier as well.

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05-26-2014, 02:00 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
You could be right, maybe having Hamilton instead of Coots makes this team less successful this year.
And if the Flyers do not make the playoff atleast they will get a better draft pick.
Since, they are years from competing with LA or Boston for a cup, why not
develop a highly promising defenseman.
I would just would rather have Hamiliton with his pedigree than any of our dman prospects.
His pedigree isn't as amazing as you seem to think it is. He's a solid player, but you talk like he's a future hall of famer. Our prospects are fine. Couturier is currently the better player and very well could be better through both their careers.

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05-26-2014, 02:08 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
Are you like this about every draft pick, or do just have a hard on for Dougie and/or don't value Couts? Do you complain that we should have drafted Oli Maata instead of Laughton, McD instead of JVR, Carlson over Sbisa, etc?

With how bad the 2012 defense was, I wanted them to fix it via the draft.
I wanted Hamilton over Couts, they gots Couts.
Next year, I hoped for Maata, but they drafted Laughton.
This year wanted Morrissey or Pulock but they drafted Morin.
Morin seems like a reach for a top 10 pick, can only hope he turns into a NHL player.
Now all my hopes rest in Ghost or Hagg to improve this defense.

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05-26-2014, 02:50 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
With how bad the 2012 defense was, I wanted them to fix it via the draft.
I wanted Hamilton over Couts, they gots Couts.
Next year, I hoped for Maata, but they drafted Laughton.
This year wanted Morrissey or Pulock but they drafted Morin.
Morin seems like a reach for a top 10 pick, can only hope he turns into a NHL player.
Now all my hopes rest in Ghost or Hagg to improve this defense.
I can't even begin....

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05-26-2014, 03:30 PM
  #264
The Rage Kage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
With how bad the 2012 defense was, I wanted them to fix it via the draft.
I wanted Hamilton over Couts, they gots Couts.
Next year, I hoped for Maata, but they drafted Laughton.
This year wanted Morrissey or Pulock but they drafted Morin.
Morin seems like a reach for a top 10 pick, can only hope he turns into a NHL player.
Now all my hopes rest in Ghost or Hagg to improve this defense.
And where are you bestowed all of this knowledge that morin can only hope he turns into an nhler? Or are you the kind of person who plays nhl 14 so they think they can manage an nhl team?

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05-26-2014, 03:33 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
With how bad the 2012 defense was, I wanted them to fix it via the draft.
I wanted Hamilton over Couts, they gots Couts.
Next year, I hoped for Maata, but they drafted Laughton.
This year wanted Morrissey or Pulock but they drafted Morin.
Morin seems like a reach for a top 10 pick, can only hope he turns into a NHL player.
Now all my hopes rest in Ghost or Hagg to improve this defense.
Ok keep going, please. In 2006, who did you want over Giroux? In 2005, who did you want at pick 29 over Steve Downie? In 2003 who did you want over Carter and Ritchie? In 2002, who did you want over Pitkanen? In 2000, who did you want over Justin Williams? Your complaints are such nit picking non-sense. The Flyers draft record for 1st round picks is pretty incredible. Start looking at other teams draft records in comparison. You can complain about stuff with the Flyers, but drafting in round 1 isn't one of them. And the last thing you should be complaining about is having Sean ****ing Couturier on the team.

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05-26-2014, 03:36 PM
  #266
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I'm shaking my head so hard that I'm worried I might snap my neck.

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05-26-2014, 04:08 PM
  #267
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Maatta is so overrated on HF.

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05-26-2014, 04:24 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Morin seems like a reach for a top 10 pick, can only hope he turns into a NHL player.
Morin wasn't even a top 10 pick, he was selected at #11 making him a top 15 pick.

He was a reach a bit but not as crazy as you make it out to sound. He was rated in the top 15 by McKeen's (10) & Button (13) in their final rankings. McKenize had him 17th, The Hockey News had him 20th, & ISS had him 32nd. That would be an average of 18 there.

Morin's size matched with his skating ability alone will get him into the NHL, what type of player will he be there is more of the question here.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 05-26-2014 at 04:35 PM.
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05-26-2014, 04:35 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Morin wasn't even a top 10 pick, he was selected at #11 making him a top 15 pick.

He was a reach a bit but not as crazy as you make it out to sound. He was rated in the top 15 by Button (13), TSN (15), & McKeen's (10) in their final rankings.

Morin's size matched with his skating ability alone will get him into the NHL, what type of player will he be there is more of the question here.
And he's exactly the type of pick we needed to make, he has a massive amount of potential. Although it's not a sure thing that he reaches his potential, he's progressing very nicely and if he actually does reach it we'll likely have our franchise #1D. It's a safe bet so say he'll at least end up as an NHL player, maybe in a role similar to Coburn.

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05-26-2014, 05:42 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by BrimFullofAsham45 View Post
Maatta is so overrated on HF.
Glad Im not the only one who sees that. Kid is a fine dman who will probably get better but my god people act like he is already a number 1 and future Norris trophy winner.

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05-26-2014, 06:10 PM
  #271
LegionOfDoom91
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Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
And he's exactly the type of pick we needed to make, he has a massive amount of potential. Although it's not a sure thing that he reaches his potential, he's progressing very nicely and if he actually does reach it we'll likely have our franchise #1D. It's a safe bet so say he'll at least end up as an NHL player, maybe in a role similar to Coburn.
Coburn's a legit top 4 defender in this league so I don't know if I would cap Morin's floor at that but my point was that Morin's always going to get opportunities until completely proven otherwise to play in the league even if he never lives up to expectations because of his size & skating.

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05-26-2014, 06:36 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Coburn's a legit top 4 defender in this league so I don't know if I would cap Morin's floor at that but my point was that Morin's always going to get opportunities until completely proven otherwise to play in the league even if he never lives up to expectations because of his size & skating.
I don't think you understand exactly what I meant, I probably could have phrased it better.

Those were two different thoughts, not really linked together.

1- I'm saying that I think his floor is probably still as an NHL player because he's a smart player, mean, huge, a very good skater, and his offensive skills are improving when he actually got opportunities

and separately

2- That he might end up in a role similar to Coburn (defensive defenseman who is a great skater). I'm not saying Coburn is his floor, just that if he doesn't end up as a #1D, like we obviously hope he will, he could end up as a similar player to Coburn (aka not his floor, but somewhere in the middle of his floor and his ceiling).

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05-26-2014, 06:41 PM
  #273
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The only recent 1st round pick that bothered me was Morin over Morrissey. Morrissey is a stud.

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05-26-2014, 06:50 PM
  #274
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I would rather have Morin than Morrissey.

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05-26-2014, 06:50 PM
  #275
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Glad Im not the only one who sees that. Kid is a fine dman who will probably get better but my god people act like he is already a number 1 and future Norris trophy winner.
I agree. As a Flyers fan living in Penguin country, I see a lot of him. He makes a lot of mistakes in the defensive zone. Sure he will get better... but I think he is a bit overrated at this point.

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