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Abbotsford Heat relocating to Glens Falls, NY

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05-20-2014, 11:23 AM
  #351
UticaHockey
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Originally Posted by Adirondack Flames View Post
This bugged me, then the Heat only played "division rival" Charlotte twice. If the league is going to have the schedule weighted this poorly why bother making the divisions geographically correct?
I don't think division rivals mean that much as far as scheduling is concerned especially when division rivals are not geographic rivals. What does Abbotsford, BC and Charlotte, NC have in common to make them rivals anyway? Utica only played the Heat 12 times in an attempt to boost their attendance as more people in Abbotsford would attend games against the Canucks farm team.

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05-20-2014, 02:47 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Adirondack Flames View Post
You are constantly blaming the Flames for a contract that was offered to them. The Flames did not hose the City of Abbotsford, the mayor/city council ****ed Abbotsford repeatedly.

First they build an arena that barely got a 50% approval from the citizens. Then out of pure desperation to find some kind of permanent tenant they chased the Flames and made them an offer they couldn't refuse.

None of that is the Flames fault. All they did is accept a business agreement and do the best they could while they were there.
Takes two to tango and they hosed Omaha and QC by THEM leaving early. They hosed Abbotsford by NOT leaving early. And who knows what promises were made by the team to those cities? Look at what the NHL did to Glendale.

If I lived in the GF area, I would be cautious concerning the flames.

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05-20-2014, 03:48 PM
  #353
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Takes two to tango and they hosed Omaha and QC by THEM leaving early. They hosed Abbotsford by NOT leaving early. And who knows what promises were made by the team to those cities? Look at what the NHL did to Glendale.

If I lived in the GF area, I would be cautious concerning the flames.
I get the feeling you don't grasp legalities very well.

1. If the Flames "hosed" Omaha or Quad City by leaving earlier than the contract allowed then someone would have sought legal action. This never happened, which leaves one to logically conclude that they exercised their legal rights.

2. In the Flames agreement with the City of Abbotsford, it was the city that had the out clause, not the Flames. This means the Flames could not legally back out of the agreement.

3. The agreement with Glens Falls is for 3-5 years, or 3 years with 2 option years. If the Flames decide to exercise their legal rights to leave after 3 years, they would not be "hosing" Glens Falls either.

4. Every agreement is agreed to by both parties. So no one side is "hosing" the other, they are simply fulfilling their contractual rights.

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05-20-2014, 07:16 PM
  #354
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Quad City had a five year agreement with the Calgary Flames. They left after two years citing, if I remember correctly, a financial out clause (the Flames were to cover some of the losses, if they exceeded too much, they could break the contract early).

Both parties (Abbotsford/Calgary) likely had out clauses built into the contract like any good legal document, but why should Calgary exercise theirs when the City of Abbotsford promised to cover the losses.


In quick searches for the Flames news about leaving Omaha and Quad City, both times the teams moved Calgary was "committed to making it work in the [current city] and are not looking to move..." and then move.

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05-20-2014, 08:27 PM
  #355
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Here's some facts only twice in the past fifteen years has a Calgary affiliate finished out of the bottom 5 in attendance and it's been 20 years since one hasn't finished in the bottom 10 in attendance, but let's not let these little facts get in the way of peoples hating.

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05-20-2014, 10:54 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by aparch View Post
They finally did this past season. Every team in the Western Conference played everyone else in the conference at least twice (once home, once away).
Not to pile on, but Albany didn't play St. John's until the playoffs this season.

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05-21-2014, 03:34 AM
  #357
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As long as the trends of NHL owned AHL clubs continues the whole discussion is business above all else, no loyalty whatsoever. Years ago AHL clubs owned by local or regional owners had stake in the teams success and perception in the community! that's no longer the case. The AHL of today, not like that of even how it was heading into the mid 1990s. Hershey and soon the Lehigh Valley Phantoms will further establish why strong non NHL ownership is the better way to go. Otherwise the AHL is headed down a boring NBA-D League like path. Calgary wants to be west, not in Glenn's Falls, likewise Vancouver really wants to be west as well, in Abottsford most likely. The westward movement will take a couple years but it is on the table alive and well. The only difference between the Adirondack Phantoms run and Adirondack Flames run is that the Phantoms local ownership group were up front and transparent with the area. Had the arena in Trenton been available to the Phantoms they would have went there instead but the were honest and did the Adirondack fans a solid for sure.

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05-21-2014, 08:20 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Nightsquad View Post
As long as the trends of NHL owned AHL clubs continues the whole discussion is business above all else, no loyalty whatsoever. Years ago AHL clubs owned by local or regional owners had stake in the teams success and perception in the community! that's no longer the case. The AHL of today, not like that of even how it was heading into the mid 1990s. Hershey and soon the Lehigh Valley Phantoms will further establish why strong non NHL ownership is the better way to go. Otherwise the AHL is headed down a boring NBA-D League like path. Calgary wants to be west, not in Glenn's Falls, likewise Vancouver really wants to be west as well, in Abottsford most likely. The westward movement will take a couple years but it is on the table alive and well. The only difference between the Adirondack Phantoms run and Adirondack Flames run is that the Phantoms local ownership group were up front and transparent with the area. Had the arena in Trenton been available to the Phantoms they would have went there instead but the were honest and did the Adirondack fans a solid for sure.
First off the local ownership thing is a double edge sword for a lot of NHL teams. Yes it does reduce operating costs, but it does sometimes cause the conflict between the two over player development vs winning. Secondly I find your statement about Calgary and Vancouver wanting to be in the west ridiculous. How do you know this for a fact did you talk to people in the organizations that told yo personally and if you did put names on it or it isn't true. As for Abbotsford that's an absolute joke I could give you 13 million reasons why the AHL isn't ever going back there. Another point your wrong about is the west movement. Honestly where are these teams going legitimate options not just ones that sound good. Bakersfield and Ontario are possibilities, but are already claimed by the Oilers and Kings. The ECHL can't even keep teams alive out there. Finally about the Phantoms going to Trenton that's the most laughable in the 5 years the Phantoms played in Glens Falls how many teams there folded also if they wanted to they could of went last year, but didn't. Don't you find it a little ironic that New Jersey has never in the history of the league had a franchise.

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05-21-2014, 05:37 PM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adirondack Flames View Post
This bugged me, then the Heat only played "division rival" Charlotte twice. If the league is going to have the schedule weighted this poorly why bother making the divisions geographically correct?
Abbotsford played Charlotte four times...they were 3-0-1-0 against them.

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05-21-2014, 08:16 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Nightsquad View Post
As long as the trends of NHL owned AHL clubs continues the whole discussion is business above all else, no loyalty whatsoever. Years ago AHL clubs owned by local or regional owners had stake in the teams success and perception in the community! that's no longer the case. The AHL of today, not like that of even how it was heading into the mid 1990s. Hershey and soon the Lehigh Valley Phantoms will further establish why strong non NHL ownership is the better way to go. Otherwise the AHL is headed down a boring NBA-D League like path. Calgary wants to be west, not in Glenn's Falls, likewise Vancouver really wants to be west as well, in Abottsford most likely. The westward movement will take a couple years but it is on the table alive and well. The only difference between the Adirondack Phantoms run and Adirondack Flames run is that the Phantoms local ownership group were up front and transparent with the area. Had the arena in Trenton been available to the Phantoms they would have went there instead but the were honest and did the Adirondack fans a solid for sure.
blah blah blah

Vancouver wants to be in Abby? NO ONE WANT TO BE IN THAT[mod]!

If the AHL gets west, it will FAIL out there. You should checks with Flames and Canucks brass before [mod].


Last edited by No Fun Shogun: 05-21-2014 at 08:55 PM. Reason: play nice
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05-22-2014, 03:31 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by 6768clintoncomets575 View Post
blah blah blah

Vancouver wants to be in Abby? NO ONE WANT TO BE IN THAT[mod]!

If the AHL gets west, it will FAIL out there. You should checks with Flames and Canucks brass before [mod].

If the ECHL can succeed in the West, why can't the AHL?

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05-22-2014, 05:37 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by PSGJ View Post
If the ECHL can succeed in the West, why can't the AHL?
Has the ECHL succeeded out west? Really? The ECHL is not succeeding anyplace. No AA hockey league is. It is trudging along with no identity, no geographic footprint and a budget that far exceeds potential revenues in MOST cities.

The A would be the same. The operating expenses would sink the revenues in MOST cities.

I am not against expansion, growth and new markets. Look at the numbers.

You signing the checks for the AHL to move west?

The AHL will fail with a western experiment. Not saying it won't happen. BUT, it will fail and the AHL will come back to the East and Eastern 1/2 MW.

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05-22-2014, 12:04 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by 6768clintoncomets575 View Post
Has the ECHL succeeded out west? Really? The ECHL is not succeeding anyplace. No AA hockey league is. It is trudging along with no identity, no geographic footprint and a budget that far exceeds potential revenues in MOST cities.

The A would be the same. The operating expenses would sink the revenues in MOST cities.

I am not against expansion, growth and new markets. Look at the numbers.

You signing the checks for the AHL to move west?

The AHL will fail with a western experiment. Not saying it won't happen. BUT, it will fail and the AHL will come back to the East and Eastern 1/2 MW.
Same thing was said when the I teams went to the AHL.

Planning is key and some of the ECHL markets did not fail because of the "brand", they failed because they were put in markets where no hockey would draw or their leases were cancelled.

And what's 2 million in losses to an NHL team? That just means they do not spend 2 mil per year on a 4th line player, they spend league minimum on him.

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Old
05-23-2014, 12:49 PM
  #364
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ESPN's Levy gives Glens Falls the AHL Thumbs Up!

For you Glens Falls AHL fans and those rooting for the small Upstate NY mountain town the Albany area AHL beat writer did a nice story about hockey, especially Glens Falls in a sitdown with ESPN's Steve Levy. I always thought Levy & Melrose did a solid for hockey in that community and unfortuantely the town of Glens Falls & fan base really didnt give them a fair shake despite their best intentions to maintain hockey there. Whether or not in the future AHL stays long term the fans and town fathers really need to be appreciative of local efforts to maintain a team.

http://www.timesunion.com/sports/art...ea-5499833.php

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05-23-2014, 09:30 PM
  #365
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Frostbite folded because the Danbury owner was thrown in jail and two of the other three eastern UHL teams closed up shop.

And check the on-ice record of the IceHawks. Then at one point the Sherriff came and seized the money from the concession stands.

It was fun to watch, but the UHL (in some cases) had a certain level of professionalism missing.

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05-23-2014, 10:07 PM
  #366
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Calgary moved their affiliate west in 1988, to Salt Lake City. Then moved it just about as far east as possible.

They headed west again in 2009, then moved it just about as far east as they could.

The only thing constant in minor-pro hockey is change.

So Flames left Saint John in 2003, had players in Lowell for two seasons, Omaha for two, QC for two, Abbotsford for 5 and now Adirondack?

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05-24-2014, 08:52 PM
  #367
Adirondack Flames
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[mod]

From what I've heard in the past AHL players do not like the farm team being called the Baby _________ (fill in with Flames, Penguins, Sharks... or any AHL team that shares a name with the NHL club). So to differentiate us HF Flames fans have decided to refer to the Flames AHL affiliate as the A-Team.

The A-Team currently has no coaches on staff for next year as the contracts for Ward, Ftorek and Sigalet all expire July 1st. But I do expect and hope to see all 3 return. The wildcard is if Ward gets a shot as an AHL Assistant coach IMO. If he does not return I can picture a complete turnover in the coaching staff.


Last edited by No Fun Shogun: 05-25-2014 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Just nixing that entire convo
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05-25-2014, 02:53 PM
  #368
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Let's try to keep things on topic, shall we? Also, don't flame others just because you disagree with them.

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Nerd, don't estimate all humanity by the limitations of your own capability. - Steve Smith, Professor of History, University of China, IL
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05-26-2014, 06:03 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by IceCapsFanNL View Post
i expect TNSE to pull their team after next year. Don't be surprised if another team is in place the year after. I'd say there is a better than even chance that the IceCaps are in the league long term.
Its been well stated that Winnipeg is pulling the team out of St.John's after next season,and from what ive heard,moving them to Winnipeg until,or if ever Thunder Bay builds a rink.Keep in mind when the Baby Leafs were here they were rumored to move to Thunder Bay when they were Again in 2004 building a rink,the same rink in 2014 that anit got funding.Thunder Bay I suspect wont get a team,and Winnipeg will move the team elsewhere after a couple of seasons

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