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OT : Rebuilding

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Old
03-19-2007, 09:57 PM
  #1
DarthSather99
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OT : Rebuilding

For a long time now rebuilding with youth was thought to only be for small market teams. Teams in New York always "had" to trade for the BIG names but stayed mediocre or below.

Now we see teams like the Rangers, Knicks and Yankees depending on developing young players as a means for improving their teams. With the New York teams now investing big in scouting and devloping younger players does this give the advantage back to the big market teams.

The Yankees are rated #5 overall by Baseball America and have many GREAT young players ready to blossom. The Knicks have showed tremendous inprovement lately with the younger players like Lee, Balkman, Fry and Curry leading the way.

The Rangers are slowly improving thanks to many of their younger players and seem to have their cup overflowing with budding young players.

Have we seen the big market teams finally figure out that winning starts with developing young talent.

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03-19-2007, 10:12 PM
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danman1202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
For a long time now rebuilding with youth was thought to only be for small market teams. Teams in New York always "had" to trade for the BIG names but stayed mediocre or below.

Now we see teams like the Rangers, Knicks and Yankees depending on developing young players as a means for improving their teams. With the New York teams now investing big in scouting and devloping younger players does this give the advantage back to the big market teams.

The Yankees are rated #5 overall by Baseball America and have many GREAT young players ready to blossom. The Knicks have showed tremendous inprovement lately with the younger players like Lee, Balkman, Fry and Curry leading the way.

The Rangers are slowly improving thanks to many of their younger players and seem to have their cup overflowing with budding young players.

Have we seen the big market teams finally figure out that winning starts with developing young talent.
Very good post, I agree. I run my own Yankees message board that's how big of a fan of the Yankees I am, so I know what you're saying when you talk about the rebuilding on the Yankees farm system. They realized that they were losing to teams like the Marlins and Angels in the playoffs, teams that were committed to bringing up young talent, and started pouring their huge resources into player development, and it will help them immensely in the near future. Same goes for the Rangers. Bringing in the right mix of free agents and adding youth to it is the winning formula, in my opinion.

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03-19-2007, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
For a long time now rebuilding with youth was thought to only be for small market teams. Teams in New York always "had" to trade for the BIG names but stayed mediocre or below.

Now we see teams like the Rangers, Knicks and Yankees depending on developing young players as a means for improving their teams. With the New York teams now investing big in scouting and devloping younger players does this give the advantage back to the big market teams.

The Yankees are rated #5 overall by Baseball America and have many GREAT young players ready to blossom. The Knicks have showed tremendous inprovement lately with the younger players like Lee, Balkman, Fry and Curry leading the way.

The Rangers are slowly improving thanks to many of their younger players and seem to have their cup overflowing with budding young players.

Have we seen the big market teams finally figure out that winning starts with developing young talent.
not the biggest problem, but one of the issues has been pressure from the media/average joe fan who thinks that a team can't spend $$$ to be competitive and still rebuild at the same time.

look at the reaction to the contract extension thomas just got. now for the record, i'm not thrilled at him staying on and i'm less than thrilled that he still has both roles. he's proven to be a hell of a lot better coach than prez. but the vast majority of what i've heard and read is "oh, the knicks have the highest payroll in the nba and this is the best they can do?" while convieniently ignoring the fact that the knicks clearly aren't going for a championship this season or even next season. they are rebuilding and anyone who looks at them unbiasedly can see that.

now are they spending a ton of unnecessary $$$ to "rebuild"? sure. but if you look at the history of any team in new york city (and no i'm not including the nets, devils, or the islanders in this discussion but will include the giants and jets) spending money while losing or rebuilding is the unwritten rule, not the exception. and as long as it's their cash it shouldn't be an issue as long as they clearly are making progress.

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03-19-2007, 10:30 PM
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DarthSather99
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Originally Posted by MyCaptain11 View Post
not the biggest problem, but one of the issues has been pressure from the media/average joe fan who thinks that a team can't spend $$$ to be competitive and still rebuild at the same time.

look at the reaction to the contract extension thomas just got. now for the record, i'm not thrilled at him staying on and i'm less than thrilled that he still has both roles. he's proven to be a hell of a lot better coach than prez. but the vast majority of what i've heard and read is "oh, the knicks have the highest payroll in the nba and this is the best they can do?" while convieniently ignoring the fact that the knicks clearly aren't going for a championship this season or even next season. they are rebuilding and anyone who looks at them unbiasedly can see that.

now are they spending a ton of unnecessary $$$ to "rebuild"? sure. but if you look at the history of any team in new york city (and no i'm not including the nets, devils, or the islanders in this discussion but will include the giants and jets) spending money while losing or rebuilding is the unwritten rule, not the exception. and as long as it's their cash it shouldn't be an issue as long as they clearly are making progress.

The Knicks have a lot of dead money that comes off the books at the end of this year. Two players I believe they cut early in the year count against their cap and giving Allen Houston the golden parachute comes off the cap.

In addition Francis huge deal comes off soon and so does Marbury. They have a good nucleus with Lee, Balkman, Curry, Frye. The addition of a nice free agent or two could be the difference in a few years.

I don't like Thomas as GM (trading) but agree that he is a better coach. Not sure who handles the draft but they've done well recently under Thomas. Imagine what they could have done if they kept their original picks.

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03-20-2007, 12:04 AM
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I think the Mets are another Example. With the likes of bringing along Wright, Reyes, Maine, and now Milledge def seems to be a trend in the New York Area.

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03-20-2007, 07:24 AM
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The NY teams have to remain competitive and try to infuse young players at the same time.It's a delicate balance.It's not easy

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03-20-2007, 11:10 AM
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They're easy to forget but how about the Jets too? Great nucleus of youth going on there

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03-20-2007, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The NY teams have to remain competitive and try to infuse young players at the same time.It's a delicate balance.It's not easy
Yep, and it's even harder when you don't have Ovechkin's, Malkin's, and Crosby's knocking down your door. A few years ago, we'd be pissed off that Rick Kozak was not on the roster! (Actually, it's funny remembering how over the top happy we were about Ortmeyer being on the team as a rookie.) To think that Callahan is 20 times more talented is hilarious. I'm pretty happy with our waves of youth. 2006: Lundqvist, Prucha, Tyutin. 2007: Girardi, Callahan, Dubinsky.

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03-20-2007, 11:29 AM
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Girardi is the man. My next Jersey is either Hossa or Girardi

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03-20-2007, 11:32 AM
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I wouldn't be so quick to say the Rangers are rebuilding yet. They still have shown they have no clue how to play their top prospects when this roster is healthy. Callahan and Dubinsky are only playing do to injuries.

When I see Dawes, Dubinsky, Callahan, Korpikoski, Staal and Baranka replace the likes of Ortmeyer, Hollweg, Betts, Isbister, Rachunek and Malik full time I'll believe there is a rebuild going on here.

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03-20-2007, 11:32 AM
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Girardi is the man. My next Jersey is either Hossa or Girardi
To me this is one of the best surprises of the year, didn't expect anything from him at all.

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03-20-2007, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by pyattrocks View Post
I wouldn't be so quick to say the Rangers are rebuilding yet. They still have shown they have no clue how to play their top prospects when this roster is healthy. Callahan and Dubinsky are only playing do to injuries.

When I see Dawes, Dubinsky, Callahan, Korpikoski, Staal and Baranka replace the likes of Ortmeyer, Hollweg, Betts, Isbister, Rachunek and Malik full time I'll believe there is a rebuild going on here.
Ortmeyer will retire a Ranger and it wouldn't surprise me to see him as a Captain here some day. Hollweg will be here for quite some time. He's only 23 Yrs. old. You have an energy guy who's only 23. Maybe the guy will develop into a player who will put up more than 2 points a season in a few years. Why drop him? He's a fourth liner and he's young. Replacing a young player with a young player means nothing towards a rebuild. Replacing older guys with younger guys is rebuilding.

I can see Orty and Hollwood anchoring the 4th line for years. Plus guys like Dawes, Dubinsky, Callahan, Korpikoski, Staal and Baranka besides 2 of them being Dmen, none of them will be 4th liners.

Dawes will be a 1st or 2nd liner, same with Callahan, Dubinsky will be a 1st/2nd line center and Korpikoski will be a 2nd/3rd liner. Staal #1 Dman, then you have Sanguinetti, Tytuin, Sauer, Baranka and Girardi with King Henrik in the net. That's your New York Rangers defense in a few years. It's going to be sickening how good they'll be.


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Old
03-20-2007, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pyattrocks View Post
I wouldn't be so quick to say the Rangers are rebuilding yet. They still have shown they have no clue how to play their top prospects when this roster is healthy. Callahan and Dubinsky are only playing do to injuries.

When I see Dawes, Dubinsky, Callahan, Korpikoski, Staal and Baranka replace the likes of Ortmeyer, Hollweg, Betts, Isbister, Rachunek and Malik full time I'll believe there is a rebuild going on here.
The guys you mention still have to work on some things, with exception to Callahan who has proven to be dominant in the AHL and needs a new challange.

Yeah they can play in the NHL but will they improve? Most likely they'd be assigned a role, defensive most likely. In the AHL they can work on their offensive game and be aggressive without worrying about making a mistake to cost the team a game.

Rebuilding is not throwing every prospect you have in the NHL. All the players you mention + Montoya can make servicable NHL players right now. It will serve them better to play in the AHL, get more ice time, more coaching and get better.

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03-20-2007, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
To me this is one of the best surprises of the year, didn't expect anything from him at all.
Yes many. many posters on this board over the summer and at the beginning of the season thought that his game would not be able to translate to the NHL. Myself and a few other posters kept pimping him though because we saw something in him lol. He will be a solid #5 (or even #4) guy who can go up against a teams top player/line.

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03-20-2007, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pyattrocks View Post
I wouldn't be so quick to say the Rangers are rebuilding yet. They still have shown they have no clue how to play their top prospects when this roster is healthy. Callahan and Dubinsky are only playing do to injuries.

When I see Dawes, Dubinsky, Callahan, Korpikoski, Staal and Baranka replace the likes of Ortmeyer, Hollweg, Betts, Isbister, Rachunek and Malik full time I'll believe there is a rebuild going on here.
this is a perfect example of what i'm talking about. everybody has their own idea of what defines a rebuild...a topic which we all know has been beaten to death a 100 times over.

as far as the rangers are concerned, i don't think they can or could realistically throw every young prospect out there and expect to be positively received publicly or even privately by ownership. not after making the playoffs last season, which helped to save management's jobs, keeps the vets who are the most productive satisfied AND which raised the bar for not only expectations of continued success but hopes for a cup in the near future. even if it's not considered a reachable goal right now by some.

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03-20-2007, 08:30 PM
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DarthSather99
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this is a perfect example of what i'm talking about. everybody has their own idea of what defines a rebuild...a topic which we all know has been beaten to death a 100 times over.

as far as the rangers are concerned, i don't think they can or could realistically throw every young prospect out there and expect to be positively received publicly or even privately by ownership. not after making the playoffs last season, which helped to save management's jobs, keeps the vets who are the most productive satisfied AND which raised the bar for not only expectations of continued success but hopes for a cup in the near future. even if it's not considered a reachable goal right now by some.

I don't agree here .... in fact it was the young guys like Prucha and Lundqvist as well as a few others that drove the Rangers last year and saved many jobs.

I do agree that bringing prospects up just because they can keep up in the NHL is a mistake. They need coaching, much playing time, make mistakes by being aggressive and learn from them. You can not do that in the NHL.

Both Prucha and Lundqvist were not your typical rookies last year. They had tremendous experience with great international competition. Players like Dubinsky do not have that advantage and need more time in the AHL.

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03-20-2007, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
I don't agree here .... in fact it was the young guys like Prucha and Lundqvist as well as a few others that drove the Rangers last year and saved many jobs.

I do agree that bringing prospects up just because they can keep up in the NHL is a mistake. They need coaching, much playing time, make mistakes by being aggressive and learn from them. You can not do that in the NHL.

Both Prucha and Lundqvist were not your typical rookies last year. They had tremendous experience with great international competition. Players like Dubinsky do not have that advantage and need more time in the AHL.

oh i agree darth that the infusion of youth was very refreshing (even if some here STILL weren't satisfied) and some of it was very key because management had to show that the farm was making progress. i'm just saying if we threw all the kids to the wall last season jagr wouldn't be on the team now, nor would straka, nylander, shanahan, etc. and that would have led to endless "fire sather" or "fire renney" or "refund" chants which the media would have piggy-backed and who knows what would have happened.

i agree with everything else you're saying about the kids.

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03-20-2007, 11:38 PM
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The NY teams have to remain competitive and try to infuse young players at the same time.It's a delicate balance.It's not easy
How did I know that you knew the truth!

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