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GDT: Pittsburgh Penguins @ New York Rangers 7:00 pm ET (Vs. TSN)

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Old
03-20-2007, 11:01 AM
  #776
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
Who is Girardi? That kid was given a shot, and he's been remarkable. Why not praise the staff for allowing him to be a mainstay?

Dubinsky was FAR from ready earlier in the year.

Callahan was the only one producing down there, so if anything, he's the only one who should have been given a shot. But who else should have been given a shot?

Liffiton? He barely looks comfortable now, and I remember people saying he was no where near ready earlier in the year.
Agree 100% on the staff and players....I like Dubinsky alot, but you can also see he still has a bit to go and it won't bother me if he sits or is sent back to Hartford when we get a healthy roster...Callahan is another story..

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03-20-2007, 11:11 AM
  #777
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I can't believe you are still complaining about this.

The team is younger and better than it was six weeks ago and you're still whining about kids not playing.

And if they send Dubinsky down with Straka and Shanny coming back, you'll complain about that too.
I believe it.

Really, I donj't want to hurt the kid but he needs an intervention more than anyone i've seen on these boards. Or just find a board with other 'special' people like himself.

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03-20-2007, 11:14 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
I grudgingly agree. As previously mentioned, the kids should have received the opportunity sooner rather than with the playoffs hanging in the balance. It's great to see the youthful enthusiasm which is usually never evident on the team . Sorry but management must still be criticized for not giving kids a chance earlier in the year. Any other dialogue by management is lip service. It appears the injuries may be a small blessing to give the kids a chance.
Callahans progression has been absolutely perfect. Did a great job at picking up the pro game, and when he started being targeted by other teams he learned how to react to that as well. This is crucial development time and thats what he was given - time. Just because he couldve been a decent callup a few months ago doesnt mean you stop his progress.

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03-20-2007, 11:18 AM
  #779
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Callahans progression has been absolutely perfect. Did a great job at picking up the pro game, and when he started being targeted by other teams he learned how to react to that as well. This is crucial development time and thats what he was given - time. Just because he couldve been a decent callup a few months ago doesnt mean you stop his progress.
agreed he is our future captain He reminds me of a more physical mark parrish, always in front of the net.

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03-20-2007, 11:19 AM
  #780
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Larry, Il Ragazzone: Once again, I'm enjoying the youthful enthusiasm of the kids. However, Prucha has been mistreated, Dawes never received a shot, Immonen looks good with Jagr and then is banished. Further, Jagr and Shanny were way overused. Let's see who sits when Shanny and Straka return. Cally,Dubi and Prucha all should remain. Isbister and Orr should sit. When Tyutin and Rachunek return, Struds should sit as well as Pock or does Pock stay in the lineup at the expense of Rachunek. This team needs to incorporate more kids for the long term, not to eke out the eighth spot in the playoffs

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03-20-2007, 11:22 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
Dubinsky shown more to me than Isbister. And what has Prucha done to only get 7 mins last night??? Im glad Callahan played alot and on the PP but Prucha could have gotten some PP time as well, instead of Isbister.
All you have done is regugitate the old line of the Rangers not playing kids and then throw in some emoticons. The bottom line is this team is younger and better than it was six weeks ago.

Dubinsky is a center. Isbister is a wing who happens to be playing on the Jagr line and not all that badly either so it stands to reason why he's going to get more minutes.

Stop looking for things to complain about.

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Old
03-20-2007, 11:28 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
Larry, Il Ragazzone: Once again, I'm enjoying the youthful enthusiasm of the kids. However, Prucha has been mistreated, Dawes never received a shot, Immonen looks good with Jagr and then is banished. Further, Jagr and Shanny were way overused. Let's see who sits when Shanny and Straka return. Cally,Dubi and Prucha all should remain. Isbister and Orr should sit. When Tyutin and Rachunek return, Struds should sit as well as Pock or does Pock stay in the lineup at the expense of Rachunek. This team needs to incorporate more kids for the long term, not to eke out the eighth spot in the playoffs
Andy.....I too am enjoying the energy of the kids and the ENTIRE TEAM..I also don'tthink the Rangers have been perfect the way they have dealt with the kids up in NY....Maybe Dawes should have gotten a better shot when he started the season, but he didn't...When he was sent down he sulked and did not play well enought to get a recall...When he finally got it together (learning and maturing) he had been bypassed by a few players...Nothing wrong with that.....

As for Immo and Prucha, we'll just have to disagree...I am no IMMO fan at all..Just don't think he has the speed, physicality and intensity to be playing in the NHL at the stage of the game..And have no probleme with the Rangers going with other kids instead.....Maybe Prucha coulda had a little biot more ice time with other linemates, but he's also been his own worst enemy at times and his reduced ice time has been at times well earned..

And where I disagree with you most importanlty is that the way the Rangers have developnd the kids in hartford this year was the best thing that could have been done for the long term future of the kid and the team...Playing them in NY this season seems more shortsighted to me...

But, doesn';t matter now...I jsut want the Ranger kids and vets to kick ass and give us a nice PO run....Next year these kids will really have an impact..

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03-20-2007, 11:29 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
Larry, Il Ragazzone: Once again, I'm enjoying the youthful enthusiasm of the kids. However, Prucha has been mistreated, Dawes never received a shot, Immonen looks good with Jagr and then is banished. Further, Jagr and Shanny were way overused. Let's see who sits when Shanny and Straka return. Cally,Dubi and Prucha all should remain. Isbister and Orr should sit. When Tyutin and Rachunek return, Struds should sit as well as Pock or does Pock stay in the lineup at the expense of Rachunek. This team needs to incorporate more kids for the long term, not to eke out the eighth spot in the playoffs
Slow down Tex. Still seems like you're complaining about a non issue.

Listen up kiddies, these games have all been tough playoff like games, you need to rest EVERYONE once and awhile. Incorporating more kids doesn't mean that benefits us automatically, it could very well do the opposite.

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03-20-2007, 11:38 AM
  #784
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Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
Larry, Il Ragazzone: Once again, I'm enjoying the youthful enthusiasm of the kids. However, Prucha has been mistreated, Dawes never received a shot, Immonen looks good with Jagr and then is banished. Further, Jagr and Shanny were way overused. Let's see who sits when Shanny and Straka return. Cally,Dubi and Prucha all should remain. Isbister and Orr should sit. When Tyutin and Rachunek return, Struds should sit as well as Pock or does Pock stay in the lineup at the expense of Rachunek. This team needs to incorporate more kids for the long term, not to eke out the eighth spot in the playoffs
Tell that to the players...

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03-20-2007, 11:52 AM
  #785
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Wow! Beaten up today. Truce and let's pull for the playoffs. Nevertheless, if these kids don't make next year's roster, Cally, Dubi, Girardi, possibly Staal and Baranka or some semblance thereof, I'LL BE VERY UPSET.

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03-20-2007, 12:00 PM
  #786
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Wow! Beaten up today. Truce and let's pull for the playoffs. Nevertheless, if these kids don't make next year's roster, Cally, Dubi, Girardi, possibly Staal and Baranka or some semblance thereof, I'LL BE VERY UPSET.
Next fall it'll be all up to them whether they want to be with the big club or not. Without jumping the gun, i'm REALLY looking forward to next fall...but first lets deal with the Spring

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03-20-2007, 12:00 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
Larry, Il Ragazzone: Once again, I'm enjoying the youthful enthusiasm of the kids. However, Prucha has been mistreated, Dawes never received a shot, Immonen looks good with Jagr and then is banished.
Rubbish!

How has Prucha been mistreated? He averages what, 12-14 minutes a night? Earlier in the year he was struggling. There's no way to beat around that no matter how much of a mancrush you have on him. Back then and even now still, he forces shots that immediately get blocked and turned the other way, and has lost some of his creativity around the net opting to just throw the puck into the goalie's chest. That's not gonna work and make him a 30 goal scorer again. Why not look at it this way? Renney is preserving Prucha and resting him throughout the season, so he doesn't become susceptible to knee injuries, shoulder problems, etc. The kid gets beat down so much, that I'm actually happy he's not being run into the ground. And I'm not saying run into the ground with just ice time. If you give the guy 17+ a night, he's gonna get run atleast 3 times hard during the course of a game.

Comeon, Immonen with Jagr? Dawes on this team, ahead of who and what is the best case for everyone involved? IMO I'd rather have guys like Callahan, Avery, Dubinsky on this team than Immonen and Dawes. To be honest, I think Dawes succeeds with a guy like Nylander but there's no way a coach who wants to keep his job will leave Jagr be with a slow playmaking rookie. Why not focus on the fit of the team as a whole and how the parts come together rather than cry that this rookie is not on the team and that rookie wasn't given more than 10 minutes. The team was losing earlier in the season, but it sure as hell wasn't because they didn't play mediocre rookies. With Immonen and Dawes its all about preference. Do you want a guy who's slow but can pass, a guy who's tiny but can shoot?

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Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
Further, Jagr and Shanny were way overused. Let's see who sits when Shanny and Straka return.
What sane NHL team doesn't overuse their stars and only weapons? Shanahan on the PK is about the only gripe I have with Renney's early-mid season playing time execution regarding stars. But even then, you could argue that a team starved for offense was trying its hand with a proven sniper a man down.

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Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
Cally,Dubi and Prucha all should remain. Isbister and Orr should sit. When Tyutin and Rachunek return, Struds should sit as well as Pock or does Pock stay in the lineup at the expense of Rachunek. This team needs to incorporate more kids for the long term, not to eke out the eighth spot in the playoffs
Only Callahan has forced himself onto this roster, Dubinsky has merely blended in.

Strudwick is not eligible for the playoffs, so you might as well utilize him down the stretch and alternate resting the guys.

And for my least rational rant of the post: Pock sucks!

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Old
03-20-2007, 12:03 PM
  #788
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Agree for the most part. But I think Callahan has shown the coaching staff something besides his goal scoring. We've spoke about his moxie, physical play and attitude, and I think the staff is comfortable with him (and his line) seeing mroe time in big spots.

Dubi and Prucha together, late in the game, against arguably 2 of the best players in the league, and it makes sense to go with other guys...
I agree. Callahan played really well without the puck last night.

Look at Pittsburgh's goal and Callahan's hit on Malkin. It exactly the same situation, but on one of them Jagr as a RW looses his man, on the other Callahan is there as a RW and takes his man out. Our RW's can't loose physical battles along the boards clean, to JJ's defense, it were a great pass by Malkin on their goal, and you can understand JJ cheating some since he didn't expect that lane. But if we are gooing to back off and trapp when we can't forecheck, all 5 guys have to do their job or it will just turn into a pancake.

There is a reason why we got all our big guys in the org on the right side. Its to win thoose battles. Callahan defenitly sent a message to our bench leveling Malkin there. And he were very aware about his position all night, defenitly props to Schoney.

Callahan said in a interview with Sam that it have helped him tremendously that HFD plays the same system as we do, and that Schoney have worked allot with him defensivly.

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Originally Posted by SickNice View Post
Someone mentioned it earlier... Prucha does not cherry pick, works his butt off, and is always involved with the play in his own zone, but because of his size, several times we've seen him have his man in perfect position but get beat for a goal.

I love the kid more than most, but I have no problem with going with other forwards in that situation.
Good post, and I agree 100% on Prucha. Its very obvious for me who have seen him in Europe. Here he almost played as a center at times, always deep in his own end and battling like a mad man for the puck, were he beaten at times? Yes, but he also won a ton of defensive battles around his own net, and when he did that he were great at setting up offense gooing the other way.

In the NHL he looses to many battles big. Like tossed around. Therefor he can't help out all that much defensivly, but more importantly he doesn't get involved with the puck comming out of his own end, something he is pretty good at.

I think thats the biggest reason Prucha have been so streaky, its important to be involved with the puck, it gives you confidence, if you skate around for 60 minutes without handling it, its much harder to be calm if you get a great scoring opertunity.

Prucha needs to find new routes to get involved in these aspects, he have to adjust his game, so that he can be a impact player even when he aren't scoring. I strongly belive that Renney have handled him like he have so that Prucha gets time to step back and reevalute his game, and to force him to concentrate on the basics in a smaller role. Early in the season MSG went nuts as soon as Prucha came close to the puck, Petr had a ton of pressure on him to score. Quite frankly I thought Pruch played worse overall early this season then he did last season. Now, I think he have picked it up again, and are looking better overall then he did last season, and i defenitly belive that he got another gear to put-in in the near future.

We can't do the same misstake with Prucha as we did with Marc Savard.

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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Why should management be criticized for developing the kids the best way possibile and preparing them to be contributors in NHL?..They should be praised for the way they have prepared Girardi, Callahan, Dubinsky..None of whom were seen as NHLers at the start of the season....ANd I agree that these kids would probably not be getting the shot if everybody remained healthy, but that's when kids from the farm typically get shots..

Yes, Callahan easily could have been called up earlier and might have indeed helped us gain more points, but I also think he is a better player now then he was back then...experience, ice time and maturity do count for things..
Good post Larry, and besides, when were the last time a team went healty for 82 games?

If you go with a team of 18 veteran skaters and 2 veteran goalies, you are pretty much gooing to play atleast 2 kids full time, and in avg see another 3-4 kids up for big parts of the season. Thats how it is.

I remember Montreal loosing close to 1000 games from their lineup a few years ago, thats around 12 players for the entire season (82*12). Why do people belive that our brass are counting for us to loose zero?

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03-20-2007, 12:17 PM
  #789
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Il Ragazzone: Sorry but I must disagree on Jagr and Shanny. Could it be that at 35, Jagr may be slowing down. He no longer makes end to end rushes. Before being hurt, Shanny was mired in a goal scoring drought. His use on the kill is beyond comprehension.Guys in their mid to late thirties need rest , not the 20 something year olds. Prucha never plays with a legitimate center. The kid does have soft hands and a scoring touch. Betts is not his ideal center. Cullen for all his attributes is not a pass first center. Renney has done a fine job since the trade deadline. Before the deadline, he deserves some criticism for handling of players and stubbornness in not matching lines.

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03-20-2007, 09:37 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Why should management be criticized for developing the kids the best way possibile and preparing them to be contributors in NHL?..
That is one way to look at it. Another is that they simply did not go to the kids until they were left with virtually no choice.
Quote:
Yes, Callahan easily could have been called up earlier and might have indeed helped us gain more points, but I also think he is a better player now then he was back then...experience, ice time and maturity do count for things..
Or he could have been called up 6 weeks ago and helped out then. For all the grief about lack of secondary scoring, was it really necessary to play Krog instead of giving Callahan a chance?

Was it necessary to go for as long as they did with Ozolinsh?

On the game itself, another solid, all-around effort. As Edge said, if they had just paid this much attention to their own end earlier, they could be higher. Quite the concept, that not clearing the puck through the center of the ice ,thing.

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03-20-2007, 09:44 PM
  #791
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Sorry but I must disagree on Jagr and Shanny. Could it be that at 35, Jagr may be slowing down. He no longer makes end to end rushes. Before being hurt, Shanny was mired in a goal scoring drought. His use on the kill is beyond comprehension.Guys in their mid to late thirties need rest , not the 20 something year olds. Prucha never plays with a legitimate center. The kid does have soft hands and a scoring touch. Betts is not his ideal center. Cullen for all his attributes is not a pass first center. Renney has done a fine job since the trade deadline. Before the deadline, he deserves some criticism for handling of players and stubbornness in not matching lines.
I'll agree with this. But, also as others have said, the team is younger and very much better than 6 weeks ago. If Renney takes the blame for not having the team prepared or not paying attention to details in their own end, or the general inept in-game coaching, he has to get some credit here. The team has paid attention and have improved their overall game. They are more aggresive physically and much smarter positionally. And are much more willing to shoot, not just wait for the perfect shot (though not as much on the PP). Now, that yoots have someting to do with those and it may be that Renney would never had found that out, unless he was basically forced into the situation (which he was). However, the fact remains. The team is younger and better.

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