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Old
05-27-2014, 01:10 AM
  #926
Psycho Dad
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This page has been highly educational.

Er, last page.

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05-27-2014, 09:05 AM
  #927
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Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
Funny, I don't disagree with you. I just want them to make more money. Not a fortune, but more. I also don't think it's the same as in the '40s and '50s nor are they mistreated. I do think they're being taken advantage of, that's all, and salaries should be higher and we should have larger rosters. I think their salaries should be...let's say 25 to 30 per cent more.
so lets say they do get 30% more per season starting next this year. what else are they going to want? what would they also ask for an annual increase? I can agree to make salaries 30% more, but over 5 years. not in one year.


give too much at once and they'll keep asking for more, no matter how unrealistic it is. people in general are greedy. not just football players.

also, do you mandate the 30% increase to every salary, or do you just add the increase to the cap?
if you just increase the cap, I can guarantee there will be some salaries that get nowhere near a 30% increase. you'll probably see QB's get double salaries and a lineman get a very small raise. so that wouldn't solve the problem.

maybe the players could agree to a smaller cap raise, if it also was wrapped up with a higher minimum salary. then it would be fair for more players, and all the money just wouldn't go to the stars.

regardless, I still don't think the players are being taken advantage of. I just think the players are refusing to look at the situation from the other side, and they are wanting too big a piece of the pie as to what they deserve.
it wasn't just the players who suffered for many years. I think the owners should be allowed to finally see a profit for a change and be able to bank some money for a rainy day.

I think the players are trying to take advantage of the league and the owners, more than the owners trying to keep the man down.

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05-27-2014, 11:04 AM
  #928
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^ You're going into too much detail. All I'm saying is I think the players should and deserve to be paid more. That's all I said.

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05-27-2014, 01:53 PM
  #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
^ You're going into too much detail. All I'm saying is I think the players should and deserve to be paid more. That's all I said.
you're right. I'm not specifically ranting at you. I'm sorry.

They do deserve to get paid more. obviously there is some disagreement as to how much more is fair, and in what period of time.

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05-27-2014, 05:55 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by gord View Post
you're right. I'm not specifically ranting at you. I'm sorry.

They do deserve to get paid more. Obviously there is some disagreement as to how much more is fair, and in what period of time.



....

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05-27-2014, 06:58 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
Funny, I don't disagree with you. I just want them to make more money. Not a fortune, but more. I also don't think it's the same as in the '40s and '50s nor are they mistreated. I do think they're being taken advantage of, that's all, and salaries should be higher and we should have larger rosters. I think their salaries should be...let's say 25 to 30 per cent more.
Completely agree.
I honestly cant understand why anyone would have an issue with this.

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05-27-2014, 09:54 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Completely agree.
I honestly cant understand why anyone would have an issue with this.

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05-27-2014, 10:31 PM
  #933
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Quote:
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^ You're going into too much detail. All I'm saying is I think the players should and deserve to be paid more. That's all I said.
Based on what?

Teams folding like napkins at the church picnic? Playing to half empty stadiums?

How about they be happy they can still chase the dream, and maybe one day get to the nfl where they can make real money, or perhaps they would like to try their hand at bagging groceries or pumping gas?

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05-28-2014, 09:08 AM
  #934
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Completely agree.
I honestly cant understand why anyone would have an issue with this.
You willing to pay 25-30% more for your tickets? Because i'm pretty sure owners are going to look to make up that money somewhere.

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05-28-2014, 09:13 AM
  #935
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
You willing to pay 25-30% more for your tickets? Because i'm pretty sure owners are going to look to make up that money somewhere.
Wouldn't have to. Revenue is up with the new TV contract, which should make up most of the higher pay. Fans would pay more, yes. I'm a season ticket holder and would pay my share.

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05-28-2014, 09:20 AM
  #936
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Wouldn't have to. Revenue is up with the new TV contract, which should make up most of the higher pay. Fans would pay more, yes. I'm a season ticket holder and would pay my share.
It's a business. They are going to try make up for every dollar that they could've had. They'll want the money they were suppose to get with the new TV plus what they lose to the players.

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05-31-2014, 10:09 AM
  #937
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
You willing to pay 25-30% more for your tickets? Because i'm pretty sure owners are going to look to make up that money somewhere.
So for you revenue sharing is an impossibility?

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05-31-2014, 12:20 PM
  #938
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Why exactly do cfl payers deserve to get paid more again?

I'm sorry I just don't understand. They are the equivocal of ahl players and get paid more than those guys do....

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05-31-2014, 12:26 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by iCanada View Post
Why exactly do cfl payers deserve to get paid more again?

I'm sorry I just don't understand. They are the equivocal of ahl players and get paid more than those guys do....
This is a fallacy. The CFL may be second tier to the NFL and act as a feeder league but there is little in the way of parallels to be drawn between it and a developmental league.

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05-31-2014, 01:13 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Ser Woof View Post
This is a fallacy. The CFL may be second tier to the NFL and act as a feeder league but there is little in the way of parallels to be drawn between it and a developmental league.
Unfortunately that can be taken two different ways. At least the AHL IS a feeder league and containing many players that hold the promise to get to the NFL.

Conversely the CFL is a 90% collection of failed dreams.
While evoking fallacy your statement "may be second tier" is quite curious as well. What maybe exists?

Its like saying the Oklahoma Barons may be second tier to the LA Kings..

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05-31-2014, 01:15 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Ser Woof View Post
This is a fallacy. The CFL may be second tier to the NFL and act as a feeder league but there is little in the way of parallels to be drawn between it and a developmental league.
Yeah...the TV revenue alone makes the AHL comparison extremely short sighted.

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05-31-2014, 01:26 PM
  #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCanada View Post
Why exactly do cfl payers deserve to get paid more again?

I'm sorry I just don't understand. They are the equivocal of ahl players and get paid more than those guys do....
Theres not been one reply refuting anything I've stated regarding how the current pay is supply and demand sufficient.

Lets see, players come here in an instant from all over the US and for even a hope of being on the roster and having a chance. NEVER a shortage of player recruits to play any position in this league. Never a shortage on a taxisquad, Not once any difficulty recruiting such players at current pay scale. Never EVER an issue.

Yeah, but lets pay these guys 30% more just because we're feeling generous..

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05-31-2014, 01:32 PM
  #943
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I love it. One thread I'm on board with Replacement and not Guymez and then the other it's reversed.

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Old
05-31-2014, 03:02 PM
  #944
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Marcus Henry cut today. It will be interesting to see how our reciever corps shape up. I would assume he was made expendible since every one is seemingly healthy. I thought he was turning the corner on his consistency issues.

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05-31-2014, 03:22 PM
  #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Unfortunately that can be taken two different ways. At least the AHL IS a feeder league and containing many players that hold the promise to get to the NFL.

Conversely the CFL is a 90% collection of failed dreams.
While evoking fallacy your statement "may be second tier" is quite curious as well. What maybe exists?

Its like saying the Oklahoma Barons may be second tier to the LA Kings..
I can see where the "may be" could be taken out of context in the spliced quote but I was never questioning the fact that the NFL is, for lack of a better term, the most prestigious league for a pro football player to play in. I know that. I used the "may be" in the context that I was drawing a comparison between what its relationship is to the NFL and what the AHL's relationship is in comparison to the NHL. That make any sense? No, didn't think so

On your point about the CFL players having no other option or hope of making it in the NFL, also have to take into account that when comparing the relationship between the CFL/NFL and AHL/NHL; the AHL is developing, in most cases, highly rated prospects that are eventually expected to produce at the NHL level. The NFL drafts from the NCAA... if we're comparing the talent level across sports I don't think there's any question that the talent level of college football athletes dwarves that of junior and college hockey. In terms of scope, in terms of depth of talent, in terms of pro readiness etc. - In the NHL only a handful of 1st rounders are ready to make the jump to the NHL; the NFL, the talent in the third and fourth rounds is equal to that of what you find in the NHL's first round so for those CFL players with "failed dreams", it's always gonna be a hell of a lot tougher for them to crack it in the NFL than it is for any prospect that is being molded along expected to eventually have an impact in the pros. Not to mention the disadvantage of playing a game that institutes a wider and longer field as well as an extra player and utilizes different body/athletic types for similar positions which hurts them, be it as it may, when they do have the opportunity to try and transition to the NFL game during workouts if they're lucky enough to be extended a tryout by an NFL club.

That doesn't mean that CFL players are any less talented necessarily; it simply means that there is no parallel to be drawn between a league like the CFL (which isn't a developmental league) and the AHL (which is). For the majority of most CFL players they know that the CFL is as high up on the pro football rung as they're going to make it; AHL players have the potential to eventually earn millions. There is no reason why CFL professionals should have to work a job outside of football just to make ends meet.

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05-31-2014, 04:48 PM
  #946
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They don't have to unless they just spend their money poorly. In four months these guys make $50000+30%+get room and board.

That's $65000 in straight pay for four months, plus probably 6-10 grand in rent, plus another 2-4 Grand in food.

That is 73-79 grand for four months minimum assuming they attend training camp and make the playoffs.

Median personal income in this country is $28000.00, and the median person in this country has no problems baking ends meet. Cfl players make three times that minimum. Cfl players get paid more money in four months at minimum than doctors do. How are these guys fixed to work two jobs?


You tell me, how much would the cfl product suffer if they brought in 200 ncaa graduates that didn't make the nfl? We are talking 25 year old players in their physical peek and paid them minimum cfl wage. I guarantee they'd find enough guys, statistics say a third of those guys out of college would be unemployed in the US, another third would work at a dead end job, and only fifty percent of the remainders that got a job would be successful and happy.

The demand for the work compared to the number of jobs these guys compete for says that unless there is some huge skill gap they basically have no leverage. They play a game for a living at the second (arguably the third) highest level and get paid a number which unless they are fiscally terrible they live comfortably.

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05-31-2014, 06:29 PM
  #947
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replacement was right in an earlier post in this thread. during the last negotiations, maybe the players should have though about the future of the game, instead of getting greedy at the time.

were they not self serving in giving up revenue sharing at the time? maybe they should have stuck with the league and been partners, and they could have had a bigger share now that things are better.

the players are like a guy who dumps his girlfriend because he thinks he can do better. then when she loses 30 pounds he asks for her back.

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05-31-2014, 06:41 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by Gord View Post
replacement was right in an earlier post in this thread. during the last negotiations, maybe the players should have though about the future of the game, instead of getting greedy at the time.

were they not self serving in giving up revenue sharing at the time? maybe they should have stuck with the league and been partners, and they could have had a bigger share now that things are better.

the players are like a guy who dumps his girlfriend because he thinks he can do better. then when she loses 30 pounds he asks for her back.
Its a spot on analogy, actually.

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05-31-2014, 07:09 PM
  #949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCanada View Post
They don't have to unless they just spend their money poorly. In four months these guys make $50000+30%+get room and board.

That's $65000 in straight pay for four months, plus probably 6-10 grand in rent, plus another 2-4 Grand in food.

That is 73-79 grand for four months minimum assuming they attend training camp and make the playoffs.

Median personal income in this country is $28000.00, and the median person in this country has no problems baking ends meet. Cfl players make three times that minimum. Cfl players get paid more money in four months at minimum than doctors do. How are these guys fixed to work two jobs?


You tell me, how much would the cfl product suffer if they brought in 200 ncaa graduates that didn't make the nfl? We are talking 25 year old players in their physical peek and paid them minimum cfl wage. I guarantee they'd find enough guys, statistics say a third of those guys out of college would be unemployed in the US, another third would work at a dead end job, and only fifty percent of the remainders that got a job would be successful and happy.

The demand for the work compared to the number of jobs these guys compete for says that unless there is some huge skill gap they basically have no leverage. They play a game for a living at the second (arguably the third) highest level and get paid a number which unless they are fiscally terrible they live comfortably.
There's a little thing called taxes which you forgot to factor in

edit - Actually my bad. Average CFL salary is around $80,000 before tax which isn't horrible. I thought it was lower for some reason hence my original post. It's a decent wage, all things considered, but nothing to write home about. First I've heard of that kind of stipend for CFL players. Are there any figures or evidence to back that up? I only ask because I haven't seen any myself.


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05-31-2014, 07:24 PM
  #950
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Haha, my Numbers were a little low apparently...

Quote:
The minimum player salary as dictated by the Collective Bargaining Agreement is $45,000 in 2013, incremented by $1,000 per year for the past four years of the current CBA. Base salary plus pre-season compensation is paid over a five-month span, with playoff bonuses topping off compensation for an additional month of play. When this is taken into consideration, the minimum salary is about $90,000 on an annual basis. This does not include earnings outside of football or endorsement and appearance fees.
Link.

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