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Old
06-02-2014, 11:59 AM
  #126
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Don't think that the Rangers match up favorably with the Kings at all. Rangers eeked by with much weaker competition. The advantage Lundqvist might provide seems overstated. Not buying that the Kings might be more fatigued than the Rangers either. They only played one more game than the Rangers. Can't really tell if it will be a short or a long series--Kings did have some trouble with the Devils in their last SCF appearance. However, it seems very probable that the Kings will win.

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06-02-2014, 11:59 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Schenn needs 2C minutes (18+) if he's expected to be a 2C. Right now Couts is getting those minutes and there doesn't seem to be enough to go around. You can't hold him to a standard when he's not being given appropriate opportunities to meet those standards.
he hasn't been a consistent enough player to be a 2C. He has all the talent in the world but the guy has been frustrating at times. I think in a perfect world Schenn takes his game to the level many hope he gets to and they can slot in Giroux, Schenn and Couturier and be very good shape. Right now there are question marks.
I hope Schenn can put it all together. if he does he will get the ice time.

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06-02-2014, 12:00 PM
  #128
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I don't know how I feel about Schenn. What I was expecting and what we have now are two very different players. When the trade was made (and I'll disregard the stupid "best player not in the NHL" tag), Schenn was billed as a physical two way center, much like Mike Richards. An anchor to build your lineup around. He hasn't shown any of that, unfortunately. To me, he's been inconsistent at best defensively, he's been a very poor possession player, and has just generally not looked like the kind of player you want to build around. He hasn't really even shown flashes of it.

Having said that - he still put up 20 goals this season, at age 22, with poor line mates for the most part. I think he does have some talent - just not the kind we thought he would. With Laughton coming up, Schenn is going to have to make the switch to LW with G and Jake. Or even RW with Couts and Read. Basically anywhere but where he is now.

If we can build around G/Couts/Laughton down the middle, and move Schenn to the wing, I'll still be very happy with the M. Richards trade. Even if he weren't on the decline, if Laughton can be a two-way guy, and Couts can start potting some more goals, I'd be happy. I'm trying to tell myself that just because Schenn isn't the type of player that I though we were getting, and the type of player I typically gush over, doesn't mean he isn't a valuable piece. And we need a winger anyway, so what the hell.

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Old
06-02-2014, 12:10 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Schenn needs to play like a center if he's expected to be a 2C.
Then he needs wingers (Simmonds is fine) and ice time. He's 22 and has been tossed back and forth between wing and center while playing with the likes of Briere and Vinny. Not good enough. You want him to be a 2C then put him in a 2C position and see if he sinks or swims. It's as simple as that.

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he hasn't been a consistent enough player to be a 2C. He has all the talent in the world but the guy has been frustrating at times. I think in a perfect world Schenn takes his game to the level many hope he gets to and they can slot in Giroux, Schenn and Couturier and be very good shape. Right now there are question marks.
I hope Schenn can put it all together. if he does he will get the ice time.
Couts gets a good chuck because of his defensive skills so I can't see Schenn taking any of his minutes. In which case Schenn is competing vs the 4C who is already only getting like 10 a game and Giroux (a top 3 center). I don't see him earning 2C ice time. Like it or not, as of right now (that is unless things change) Couts is the team's 2C and Scenn the 3C. In which case I don't see what more you can ask (Schenn gave 2C production, low 2C but still, with 3C minutes).

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Old
06-02-2014, 12:19 PM
  #130
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Couturier is going to have to get better offensively to stay at the 2C. No doubt he is a elite defensive player. I think some view some view Schenn as the better offensive player if both reach their potential

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06-02-2014, 12:21 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Couturier is going to have to get better offensively to stay at the 2C. No doubt he is a elite defensive player. I think some view some view Schenn as the better offensive player if both reach their potential
Just marginally better, really. He's nearly at the 50 pt mark. That's good offensive production for a 2C.

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Old
06-02-2014, 12:27 PM
  #132
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I'm not calling anybody out but I think people need to temper their expectations. There is only one team who consistently has two centers in the top 30 in center scoring and that's the penguins. There's a reason for that, a lot of it has to do with ice time but also defensive responsibilities (It's unlikely that Couts puts up significantly better numbers on a consistent basis while getting arguably the hardest defensive workload in the NHL among forwards, at the very least top 5).

Just FYI low to mid 50s in points puts a center in the top 30 in scoring. I'm not saying anyone here is saying the Flyers need 3 1Cs but someone in another thread literally said the Flyers need Couts and Schenn to be 60-70 pt centers if the team is going to have any success. That's beyond ridiculous. That's asking for 3 top 20 centers, including a ppg+ player.

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06-02-2014, 12:34 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by whitstifier View Post
Just marginally better, really. He's nearly at the 50 pt mark. That's good offensive production for a 2C.
true, but I think some want him to be a more consistent player overall. Something he needs to work on.

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06-02-2014, 12:35 PM
  #134
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We all need to move, it was nearly 3 years ago.
we all need to stop posting this, these trades were among the biggest in team history and will be discussed for decades to come

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06-02-2014, 12:37 PM
  #135
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we all need to stop posting this, these trades were among the biggest in team history and will be discussed for decades to come
No we dont. What's done is done.

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06-02-2014, 12:46 PM
  #136
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No we dont. What's done is done.
exactly. people still bring up the Sharp trade so I doubt people will be able to let it go. I have let it go.
stop stealing my lines btw

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06-02-2014, 12:54 PM
  #137
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That kid is dead to me (Not for the end of tonight)

3rd straight year he played terrible in playoffs and refuses to play puck when he has a opponent coming at him along boards

He makes Oduya look like a warrior (And Oduya is softer then Charmin)

Great skater with tons of offensive upside but a complete liability on ice come playoff time. Cant compete for cup when you cant trust your bottom pair and major reason you cant trust that pair is because of kid

Bryan Berard 2.0 as far as I am concerned ,, So freaking fed up with kid being soft

Look at hits guys like Kruger takes going all out for puck (He was destroyed game 6) and then watch Leddy do his best to avoid any contact and lose battle for puck. Sick of it ,,, Like the kid and its great to see him carry puck up ice but enough is enough

Versteeg , Leddy and Rozy should be gone in trades at draft. Steeger was a joke in playoffs and Rozy is showing his age. Handzus and Khabby can hang em up ,, Thanks for memories but both had nothing in tank this year. Raanta can go back to Finland as well ,, Crawford needs an actual #2 so he can enjoy a night off without fear of having to come in for this bum

Hawks aren't doing anything with core (And justifiable as they nearly made finals again) but the depth this year was not good beyond Saad/Shaw/Smith/Kruger and its time for kids to learn on job

No reason Teravainen shouldn't have been given chance to run with #2C spot when it was clear Handzus was finished since drop of puck to start year. There is no reason Teravainen shouldn't be on roster from day 1 next year. If Hawks don't plan to have him in role next year then they better damn well trade for a #2C option because the #2C issue was embarrassing to watch this year

Shaw is not viable top 6 C , Kruger is blackhole offensively , Regin is 4th liner and Handzus is done. Yet that is what Hawks rolled with in playoff

Damn joke to watch unfold ,, If your not gonna play Sharp at C (Q for some reason wont since 1st cup) then get a real damn center who is permanent fix or let the Finnish Wonder run with it and learn on job

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Old
06-02-2014, 01:20 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
exactly. people still bring up the Sharp trade so I doubt people will be able to let it go. I have let it go.
stop stealing my lines btw

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Old
06-02-2014, 01:24 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
That kid is dead to me (Not for the end of tonight)

3rd straight year he played terrible in playoffs and refuses to play puck when he has a opponent coming at him along boards

He makes Oduya look like a warrior (And Oduya is softer then Charmin)

Great skater with tons of offensive upside but a complete liability on ice come playoff time. Cant compete for cup when you cant trust your bottom pair and major reason you cant trust that pair is because of kid

Bryan Berard 2.0 as far as I am concerned ,, So freaking fed up with kid being soft

Look at hits guys like Kruger takes going all out for puck (He was destroyed game 6) and then watch Leddy do his best to avoid any contact and lose battle for puck. Sick of it ,,, Like the kid and its great to see him carry puck up ice but enough is enough

Versteeg , Leddy and Rozy should be gone in trades at draft. Steeger was a joke in playoffs and Rozy is showing his age. Handzus and Khabby can hang em up ,, Thanks for memories but both had nothing in tank this year. Raanta can go back to Finland as well ,, Crawford needs an actual #2 so he can enjoy a night off without fear of having to come in for this bum

Hawks aren't doing anything with core (And justifiable as they nearly made finals again) but the depth this year was not good beyond Saad/Shaw/Smith/Kruger and its time for kids to learn on job

No reason Teravainen shouldn't have been given chance to run with #2C spot when it was clear Handzus was finished since drop of puck to start year. There is no reason Teravainen shouldn't be on roster from day 1 next year. If Hawks don't plan to have him in role next year then they better damn well trade for a #2C option because the #2C issue was embarrassing to watch this year

Shaw is not viable top 6 C , Kruger is blackhole offensively , Regin is 4th liner and Handzus is done. Yet that is what Hawks rolled with in playoff

Damn joke to watch unfold ,, If your not gonna play Sharp at C (Q for some reason wont since 1st cup) then get a real damn center who is permanent fix or let the Finnish Wonder run with it and learn on job
Oh yeah, well we haven't won a cup in 40 years.

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Old
06-02-2014, 01:24 PM
  #140
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I hate it when this gif gets mentioned, but holy **** it's necessary right now.

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Old
06-02-2014, 01:26 PM
  #141
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Thanks, I've been looking for any excuse at all to use that gif.

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06-02-2014, 01:33 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Just FYI low to mid 50s in points puts a center in the top 30 in scoring. I'm not saying anyone here is saying the Flyers need 3 1Cs but someone in another thread literally said the Flyers need Couts and Schenn to be 60-70 pt centers if the team is going to have any success. That's beyond ridiculous. That's asking for 3 top 20 centers, including a ppg+ player.
The point totals for players have been significantly down these last four years, only seven players have been a PPG player during that time span (Giroux being one of them) but people's mind set on what type production a player on each line should get hasn't changed. Their standards are still set back for what it was like 10+ years ago. It's pretty noticeable on HFBoards in general.

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06-02-2014, 01:39 PM
  #143
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No we dont. What's done is done.
what's done is done is by no means even close to a decent argument for not discussing trades of the past-we'll discuss stuff related to these trades [you know, here on a message board made for hockey discussion] for a long time to come.

I was in Minneapolis a few weeks back and they were discussing the Herschel Walker/Cowboys trade on sports talk radio there!

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Old
06-02-2014, 02:19 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
The point totals for players have been significantly down these last four years, only seven players have been a PPG player during that time span (Giroux being one of them) but people's mind set on what type production a player on each line should get hasn't changed. Their standards are still set back for what it was like 10+ years ago. It's pretty noticeable on HFBoards in general.
There was a small blip after the lockout when scoring went up and people seem to be holding on to it, but it's back down now.

03-04 there were 12 PPG players, 05-06 there were 37, this year there were 13.

If you want to be tougher and limit to players who scored 82 points in a season then in 03-04 there were five, in 05-06 there were 23, and this year there were five again.

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Old
06-02-2014, 02:22 PM
  #145
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Howard Berger is saying the Toronto Maple Leafs and Florida are in talks with the Leafs trading Dion Neon+Kadri+8th overall for the 1st overall+Jovo.

This would be all kinds of funny.

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Old
06-02-2014, 02:26 PM
  #146
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Howard Berger is saying the Toronto Maple Leafs and Florida are in talks with the Leafs trading Dion Neon+Kadri+8th overall for the 1st overall+Jovo.

This would be all kinds of funny.
So does that mean agents would shun Toronto for trading a newly signed player?

In all seriousness that would be a horrible deal for the Leafs so I hope it happens.

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06-02-2014, 02:28 PM
  #147
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Yeah, I'm sure Dion has Florida on his twelve team list...

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Old
06-02-2014, 02:31 PM
  #148
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They wouldn't have won the Cup here anyway

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06-02-2014, 02:34 PM
  #149
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So does that mean agents would shun Toronto for trading a newly signed player?

In all seriousness that would be a horrible deal for the Leafs so I hope it happens.
Of course not, when Toronto finally trades Dion their attitude will quickly change from he is a 1b/2a defender to thank god we got out of that contract! Flyers are the only team who get criticized for trading players after extensions dont cha know.
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Yeah, I'm sure Dion has Florida on his twelve team list...
Florida traded for Soupy, although, there was a connection between him and Chicago. Tallon hasn't had too much trouble getting players to come down there though through free agency. They weren't top tier free agents but Florida would be very appealing for players because of the weather but more importantly tax free money.

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Old
06-02-2014, 02:35 PM
  #150
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Yeah, I'm sure Dion has Florida on his twelve team list...
I could be wrong here but did his new deal technically kick in yet? His last one didn't have any clauses in it.

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