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Old
06-02-2014, 04:01 PM
  #26
hockeyfreak7
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Drafting guys who project to be 4th line at best certainly hasn't helped their chances either. They've had a handful of those, and it's pretty much just a wasted pick. Rinaldo is the only one that has really worked out...and as we've seen, many people aren't sure it has.
Totally agree. But I don't think going for the home run every time guarantees more success, either. Too much randomness is involved when you're past the third round.

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06-02-2014, 04:34 PM
  #27
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Totally agree. But I don't think going for the home run every time guarantees more success, either. Too much randomness is involved when you're past the third round.
Of course, but going for the homerun at least maximizes the chances of hitting a homerun, instead of going for a bunt like Klotz.

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06-02-2014, 04:50 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Of course, but going for the homerun at least maximizes the chances of hitting a homerun, instead of going for a bunt like Klotz.
That's where I disagree and think the baseball analogy stops working.

Plenty of "homeruns" were not picked by "swinging for the fences". Lots of them were just average picks at the time and randomly turned into homeruns.

Take a guy like Seidenberg or Ehrhoff. Both late round guys who were passed up in their draft years (Seidenberg twice). Those weren't wild swings actively looking for the homerun. To continue the analogy, they were base hits that randomly accelerated in the air until they somehow made it out of the park.

I totally agree with your point (which is to stop drafting for the fourth line), but I'm just pointing out that a lot of the best picks aren't ones that you thought anything of on draft day (eg, a guy like Oliver Bjorkstrand-- one where everyone goes, "Holy crap, what a steal!!").

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06-02-2014, 04:55 PM
  #29
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A lot of steals are just luck that you were the team who finally decided to pick the guy

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06-02-2014, 05:09 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
That's where I disagree and think the baseball analogy stops working.

Plenty of "homeruns" were not picked by "swinging for the fences". Lots of them were just average picks at the time and randomly turned into homeruns.

Take a guy like Seidenberg or Ehrhoff. Both late round guys who were passed up in their draft years (Seidenberg twice). Those weren't wild swings actively looking for the homerun. To continue the analogy, they were base hits that randomly accelerated in the air until they somehow made it out of the park.

I totally agree with your point (which is to stop drafting for the fourth line), but I'm just pointing out that a lot of the best picks aren't ones that you thought anything of on draft day (eg, a guy like Oliver Bjorkstrand-- one where everyone goes, "Holy crap, what a steal!!").
Going for the homerun might have been the wrong choice of words; I'm trying to convey going for solid talent with possible upside, not star player. I think we still agree. Also, I am not giving up on this baseball thing.

Drafting guys like Klotz or Goulbourne in the 3rd round is like bunting to get on base. Will it work? Yeah. Sure. Maybe you'll get there and get that good 4th liner; maybe you'll scramble to first. Is it the best way to do things? Nooooo.

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06-02-2014, 06:02 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Going for the homerun might have been the wrong choice of words; I'm trying to convey going for solid talent with possible upside, not star player. I think we still agree. Also, I am not giving up on this baseball thing.

Drafting guys like Klotz or Goulbourne in the 3rd round is like bunting to get on base. Will it work? Yeah. Sure. Maybe you'll get there and get that good 4th liner; maybe you'll scramble to first. Is it the best way to do things? Nooooo.
I think what they really need is more at-bats. I'm too lazy to add it all up, but the Flyers must lead the league in picks traded away.

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06-02-2014, 06:53 PM
  #32
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I agree the draft is a crapshoot and I am not expecting the flyers to hit home runs on superstars in later rounds (i.e. Datyzuk & zetterberg) as that is almost impossible. What I am talking about are the players who really contribute to each team like saad, shaw, Martinez, or toffoli etc.

I also agree that the flyers do trade away a on of their picks.

But With all that said the flyers scouting department needs to better, plain and simple

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06-02-2014, 09:01 PM
  #33
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Well now that Hexy is at the helm, I believe he's going to hold onto to their draft picks instead of handing them out like hot cakes ie. Homer, and what gives me hope is I'm prety sure it's ok to say Hexy is going to use the model LA did to build their team into a cup contender, I think he has the right mindset, coupled with his love for the Flyers franchise to make this team a solid top team in the east and NHL in years to come

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Old
06-03-2014, 11:55 AM
  #34
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I think this is the sole reason we promoted Hexy. It's obvious we can draft fwds better than any team in the league. We just need to hang on to them. It's said all the time but imagine this team with G carter Richie JVR sharp and Williams. We just give all our talent away constantly.
I posted below excerpts in this earlier thread..

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=362

It's this kind of stuff that baffles me as far as the Holmgren backers that say he did a good job "developing" this team....



Quote:
The lack of defensive prospects in the eight years he was GM falls on Paul Holmgren. Things likely would have been much different had Pronger played through his contract instead of being forced onto long-term injury indefinitely with post-concussion syndrome.

Had Pronger played, there would be far less attention to the defense.

Holmgren admits that deal still sticks with him.

“We've talked about that, we talked about it [Tuesday],” Holmgren said. “ Not the 'what if,' but we gave up a lot to get Chris. In fact, I asked Ron. He was in Los Angeles when we made that trade. I said, 'What'd you think of that trade?'

“'Was it steep?' he said, 'Yeah, but that's the only way you were going to get him.' Then we talked about how nice it would've been to have him this year ... you try not to dwell on those things but every once and a while they come up.”
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Probably the only way you're going to get that guy [impact defenseman] is to draft for him,” Holmgren said. “Who knows, maybe we have him. Maybe Sam Morin or Robert Hagg, or Gostisbehere. Maybe he's going to be in this draft. Who knows?”

The Flyers are very shallow in their overall organizational chart in terms of draft picks playing for them right now with the Phantoms. Again, it’s unacceptable.

Holmgren had a conversation with Hextall this season during an AHL game.

“I can remember watching a Phantoms game with him earlier in the year and he said, 'How many draft picks do we have playing in this game?’” Holmgren recalled.

“Honest question, right? I think I said, 'Four?' [Nick] Cousins was there and we were counting free-agent guys that we brought in, not young guys or older guys that we brought in from other organizations.

“I think we had four or five. He just mentioned that, and the team that we were playing against that night had 12. So we've got to get better at that. He mentioned it today that we have to keep our draft picks and we've got to do a better job in that regard and he's right, we do."
Source:http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...-huge-priority

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06-04-2014, 01:48 AM
  #35
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There's no doubt Holmgren was poor with development. His teams were more chop shop beasts than polished beauties, but he did put some effective teams together. He launched the franchise out of two holes--one of which he dug himself. The loss of Pronger was devastating, but I can't give him a mulligan there; the Flyers have failed in key moments due to injuries to key players for decades now. He should've known only depth can solve that problem.

I think Homer understands it now. Hextall can be seen as the usher of a new order here, but Holmgren(forced by the closed loopholes in the new CBA) really put the pieces in place, and Homer might be the the most important piece of that structure. If the Flyers are really going to draft, develop, and deploy, Hextall, Berube, and Murray must act in accordance and without interference.

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06-05-2014, 07:48 PM
  #36
The Rage Kage
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According to the trade board couturier wouldn't be a part of winning team, trade him for a 7th and call it a day

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06-05-2014, 08:42 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by The Rage Kage View Post
According to the trade board couturier wouldn't be a part of winning team, trade him for a 7th and call it a day
stupid people say stupid things...

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Old
06-06-2014, 02:19 PM
  #38
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Asked to compare the physicality of the well-drilled Kings to the three teams the Rangers have beaten in the playoffs to date, New York coach Alain Vigneault neatly summed up the challenge before the Blueshirts.

"Philly was a physical team and they played on the edge," he said. "Pittsburgh played more of a skill game, but they also had quite a few players that played on the edge. Montreal was a real structured team. So they were three different opponents.

"This one here is structured. They've got skill. They're physical. So makes it a pretty big challenge."

..."They were a good team in the years past," he said. "They're a real good team now. They've obviously got more experience. They play their game plan to a T and they don't deviate in any shape, way, or form so that makes it real challenging for the opposition."

Captain Dustin Brown says part of the secret of the Kings' success is their familiarity.

"For our team, it's just a result of us being together for a long time. I think that goes a longer ways than most people think," he said. "When it gets really hard, really tough, you know the guy next to you very well. You know what he's going to do in those types of situations."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=454062
Flyers definitely need to be more structured and gain more skill. Players like Hartnell who didn't show up against the Rangers and can barely skate need to be demoted down the lineup or purged from the system altogether. Also, we still have quite a few D men who are turnover prone or who tend to get pinned in their own end like AMAC, Grossmann and Schenn...

One thing is for sure...some teams are not necessarily built for the longer regular season but more so for the playoffs. LA is definitely one such team...


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 06-06-2014 at 02:56 PM. Reason: excerpt added for emphasis
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