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Old
06-02-2014, 01:16 PM
  #26
Roman Reigns
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Voracek's not a legit first liner & Josi's a legit first pairing defensemen so the trade boards tell me. Yup whoever claimed that Josi was one of the newest overrated young player in league on here just gained some more ammo.
How would Nashville fans know what a 1st liner is anyway?

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06-02-2014, 01:36 PM
  #27
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voracek not a first line forward, i would say he is.

pretty good defensively. his problem is he has hot streaks and cold streaks, but still contributes on the defensive side. the day he hits 30 goals, will make him a definite first liner. 30 some goals for voracek, next year.

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06-02-2014, 01:42 PM
  #28
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voracek not a first line forward, i would say he is.

pretty good defensively. his problem is he has hot streaks and cold streaks, but still contributes on the defensive side. the day he hits 30 goals, will make him a definite first liner. 30 some goals for voracek, next year.
If you pro-rate his numbers from the 2012-2013 season it would have been 37 goals. He scored 22 goals in 48 games. He would have had 34 games to score 8 goals if it wasn't a shortened season. I'm pretty confident he would have eclipsed the 30 goal mark that year under normal circumstances.

He didn't exactly have the year people were expecting this year but he did get off to the slow along with the rest of the team & did get his wrist injured towards the end of the year but still put 60+ points.

He finished the year off on high note though, he was easily the Flyers best player during the Ranger's series.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 06-02-2014 at 01:48 PM.
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Old
06-02-2014, 02:08 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
If you pro-rate his numbers from the 2012-2013 season it would have been 37 goals. He scored 22 goals in 48 games. He would have had 34 games to score 8 goals if it wasn't a shortened season. I'm pretty confident he would have eclipsed the 30 goal mark that year under normal circumstances.

He didn't exactly have the year people were expecting this year but he did get off to the slow along with the rest of the team & did get his wrist injured towards the end of the year but still put 60+ points.

He finished the year off on high note though, he was easily the Flyers best player during the Ranger's series.
Yeah, he finished the regular season with 50 points in 53 games (20 goals). That's 31g, 77p pace. Since Dec. 9th, his longest pointless streak was three games. In 2012-13, his longest pointless streak was only two games.

His goal scoring and consistency issues are overstated. He is extremely important to our offense, and there is no reason to think he can't be a 30 goal scorer moving forward. There is no doubt he's a first line forward. Under no circumstances should a trade be considered. We're just not going to get good enough value to justify such a move.

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Old
06-02-2014, 02:49 PM
  #30
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Bobby Ryan! Shea Weber!
No to both...
Matt Moulson and Michael Del Zotto

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06-02-2014, 05:29 PM
  #31
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FREEEAEEE AGENTZZ!!!$! PAUL HOLMGGRRREN SIGN EVERYONE!!!$!!#!$! YouNG PLAYERZ && DRAFT P1CKS ARrE P00P!! bObbY RYAN EVERYWHERE!!$!$!!

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06-02-2014, 05:35 PM
  #32
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06-02-2014, 08:58 PM
  #33
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Voracek was our best player in a lot of games last season so for people to say he isn't a true first liner means that they haven't watched many Flyer games.

I am starting to get on the trade for Marleau band-wagon (I may be the only one!). I know Marleau is old and you would have to trade for him, but he has the speed and scoring ability to make that top line one of the best in the league for a few seasons. You can then move Hartnell down with Couts and Read giving that line much more offensive potential. Hextall wants speed and he is one of the fastest ones out there that is "available" from reports.

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Old
06-02-2014, 09:38 PM
  #34
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So I have been trying really hard to figure what or who I want the Flyers to do or take. In the end though I always come back to... Will we truely see a different team than last season? Now Im not calling for a total rebuild but truthfully we were an average team all season long. I know we made it to game 7 against the Rags but Im still not comfortable saying this team is a good team.

The problem comes down to, will Lecavalier and Grossmann really be off this team come September? Not saying they are not tradeable (because they both are. Someone will trade for a old x-star and an inconsistent, sometimes plays,as a #4 shutdown defender), but will Hextall actually trade them?

The problems comes that if they do NOT trade Vinny and Grossmann would people here be confident in icing the exact same 12 forwards and for the most part if Timonen comes back 6 defenders we iced last season?

I think realistically the team has a few problems.

1) A legit scoring winger for Giroux. Seriously, the guy plays with so many different players its crazy. And its not like its his problems because there are many times with whoever is manning that one wing can not finish a Giroux pass. Giroux had a slow start but his wingers really arent fully top line players. Voracek is the closest but he isnt a goal scorer.

2) A top defender. Way easier said than done though. We have Streit/Coburn/MacD who are most likely 4s who can step it up and play as a 3 at times. L. Schenn who is a 5 at this point but played as a 4 two seasons ago. Grossmann who is supposed to be a 4 but is a 5 tweener. Timonen if he comes back is a 4. My solution to this would be to give the 6th spot to one of Morin/Hagg/Ghost/Alt. Whoever wins it gets it. Time to deploy the exact same strategy other teams use to develop players on defense. Who do I expect to be that rookie? I think Snider's pull is too strong and Ghost will start the season in the NHL even if I think he needs AHl seasoning.

Overall I think some changes need to be made. I just dont know if the team will do them or have enough space to.

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Old
06-03-2014, 08:15 AM
  #35
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TSN just put up their offseason game plan for the Flyers yesterday. High(?)lights include:
  • Point out that Flyers ranked 23rd in puck possession
  • Biggest offseason decision: what to do about / with Lecavalier
  • Defense needs an overhaul
  • Goaltending remains a big question mark; they point out with a link that Mason "was one of the worst starting goaltenders" in his 4+ years with Columbus. Sheesh!
  • Hextall is "walking a fine line, fine enough that a few wrong decisions or even a couple of bad breaks could be enough to cost them" entry into the postseason
  • They trash MacDonald and his new contract
  • Suggested FA forwards: Mason Raymond, Benoit Pouliot, Radim Vrbata
  • Suggested FA defensemen: Sami Salo, Anton Stralman, Raphael Diaz, T.J. Brennan (AHL)
  • Suggested backup: Alex Stalock
  • Suggested draft pick: Dylan Larkin, Alex Tuch, Josh Ho-Sang

Most of the points are in line with what we have discussed and suggested here. The defense suggestions are very underwhelming, though, and I'm not enamoured with the options presented for the 17th overall draft pick. Overall, I thought the write-up was fair, despite the desperate clinging onto the "Flyers goaltending controversy" meme.

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Old
06-03-2014, 08:23 AM
  #36
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I can see why they are a bit hesitant to say mason will play well the whole year, but in no way will he be the worst starter in the league next year. Although if he can play like he did this playoffs he will be phenomenal.

Playoffs:
GAA: 1.97
SV%: .939

Those are great numbers, I'm not holding my breath though, he likely won't keep up those numbers throughout the season.

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Old
06-03-2014, 08:23 AM
  #37
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we were fortunate with injuries last year. I think if we have injuries we are not deep enough to survive that. Other than mason it was very accurate

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Old
06-03-2014, 09:00 AM
  #38
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Sami Salo is a odd suggestion. He'll be 40 in September.

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Old
06-03-2014, 09:08 AM
  #39
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Can we trade Grossmann to Van for Higgins OR Richardson?

Alberts (the shut down guy for them retired) - maybe grossmann can fill his skates?

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Old
06-03-2014, 09:18 AM
  #40
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I would really like the puck possession game to be completely turned around. I think guys like schenn and couts would benefit a lot from it.

I really hope vinny recoups from his back or we just move on. We really can't have him playing that poorly again.

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Old
06-03-2014, 09:27 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
TSN just put up their offseason game plan for the Flyers yesterday. High(?)lights include:
  • Point out that Flyers ranked 23rd in puck possession
  • Biggest offseason decision: what to do about / with Lecavalier
  • Defense needs an overhaul
  • Goaltending remains a big question mark; they point out with a link that Mason "was one of the worst starting goaltenders" in his 4+ years with Columbus. Sheesh!
  • Hextall is "walking a fine line, fine enough that a few wrong decisions or even a couple of bad breaks could be enough to cost them" entry into the postseason
  • They trash MacDonald and his new contract
  • Suggested FA forwards: Mason Raymond, Benoit Pouliot, Radim Vrbata
  • Suggested FA defensemen: Sami Salo, Anton Stralman, Raphael Diaz, T.J. Brennan (AHL)
  • Suggested backup: Alex Stalock
  • Suggested draft pick: Dylan Larkin, Alex Tuch, Josh Ho-Sang

Most of the points are in line with what we have discussed and suggested here. The defense suggestions are very underwhelming, though, and I'm not enamoured with the options presented for the 17th overall draft pick. Overall, I thought the write-up was fair, despite the desperate clinging onto the "Flyers goaltending controversy" meme.
Goaltending remains a big question mark; they point out with a link that Mason "was one of the worst starting goaltenders" in his 4+ years with Columbus. Sheesh!

Because no goalie has every figured it out at 25. This still burns me.

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Old
06-03-2014, 09:36 AM
  #42
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Sami Salo is a odd suggestion. He'll be 40 in September.
No kidding. That would be a disastrous move for a team that should be looking to inject speed in to their lineup wherever possible.

I don't think we'll ever see a day where the media gets past the same easy, lazy story about the Flyers and goaltending.

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Old
06-03-2014, 10:11 AM
  #43
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Please no more Dinosaurs on 35+ contracts!

We need to inject some youth and mobility to the blueline. Even cup contenders are having success easing young prospects in the lineup and just living with the ups and downs of their development.

I know someone will inevitably bring up the 'defensemen mature slower than forwards' mantra but just look at some of our own alltime greats: Pronger and Desjardin contributed right from the beginning even though they played a contrary style of hockey and one was tall like a tower while the other was smallish and both had become regular starters in their early twenties, Timonen chose to slow things down and not debut early which was his own decision while most observers thought he was NHL ready.
Maybe it seems unfair to compare our current prospects to those great names but why not remain optimistic and at least give them one open roster spot this season they could potentially earn to get their feet wet on the 3rd pairing? We are paying mediocre players too much money for average at best performances just because they are supposed to be Veterans. That needs to stop!


Last edited by dats81: 06-03-2014 at 11:29 AM.
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Old
06-03-2014, 10:23 AM
  #44
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I never give two ***** about what the media says about the team. They're either local media who are complete idiots (99% of them are at least, there are a few decent guys) or they're national media like TSN where they don't actually pay that much individual attention to the Flyers so they keep going with stereotypes that they hear over and over about defense and goaltending or just look at stats.

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06-03-2014, 12:15 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Goaltending remains a big question mark; they point out with a link that Mason "was one of the worst starting goaltenders" in his 4+ years with Columbus. Sheesh!

Because no goalie has every figured it out at 25. This still burns me.
Exactly. I don't expect anyone to publish that the Flyers have finally figured it out with Mason and he'll be great as their #1 for years to come, but at least acknowledge his recent success as a hopeful step in the right direction.

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Old
06-03-2014, 12:22 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Goaltending remains a big question mark; they point out with a link that Mason "was one of the worst starting goaltenders" in his 4+ years with Columbus. Sheesh!

Because no goalie has every figured it out at 25. This still burns me.
Bernie Parent (the goalie, not the poster) put it all together at age 28.


Though I suppose Bernie Parent the Poster may have also had an epiphany at 28 as well.

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06-03-2014, 12:38 PM
  #47
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not sure why TSN is trashing the goaltending. Sure the Flyers could improve the backup position but Mason was good last year. Not sure what they were watching.
The defense does need to be fixed and I am not sure if there is an easy answer.
puck possession and team speed does need to improve.

I think there is going to be a ton of disagreement on who the Flyers draft later this month based on what I have read on this board. myself I am beginning to lean tword Alex Tuch

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Old
06-03-2014, 12:50 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Goaltending remains a big question mark; they point out with a link that Mason "was one of the worst starting goaltenders" in his 4+ years with Columbus. Sheesh!

Because no goalie has every figured it out at 25. This still burns me.
What a bad statement...obviously they weren't watching the games we were watching...Mason and Emery were very solid this year. To credit Mason he did play on Columbus who were a terrible team in whole. I can't wait to see what Mason does next season when he has better and hopefully faster D in front of him...I'm sure he will be top 10 in the league, maybe even top 5.

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Old
06-03-2014, 12:59 PM
  #49
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Goaltending remains a big question mark; they point out with a link that Mason "was one of the worst starting goaltenders" in his 4+ years with Columbus. Sheesh!

Because no goalie has every figured it out at 25. This still burns me.
Corey Crawford didn't even become an NHL starter till he was 25.

Just imagine what his career SV% would be if he was made the Chicago starter at age 21 instead of spending five seasons developing in the AHL.

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Old
06-03-2014, 01:02 PM
  #50
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Just compare Bernier and Mason. They're both 25, but one was brought up slowly while the other captured national attention with a Calder win only to struggle like any goalie in his early 20s would.

Imagine if Bernier had been LA's starter from 20-24. He would have struggled, too (remember, LA was a bad team at that time). What would his reputation be like then?

The two just put in relatively comparable seasons this past year, and yet Bernier is held in much higher regard because he wasn't in a position for his struggles to be aired in front of the entire NHL audience.

How would Mason be viewed if he was a backup until this past season, got traded to the Flyers then put up the season that he did? He'd be considered one of the young stars in the NHL. His reputation is based largely on the horrific development path CBJ put him on. He's now a much more mature goalie, and there's nothing to suggest that he and a guy like Bernier aren't comparable. It's going to take several years to wash his hands of that reputation, but for a goalie, he is still very young, and his prime years are almost undoubtedly still ahead of him.

And in addition to Bernier...you have Crawford who became a starter at 25...Cory Schneider's reputation is sky high and he's 28 and still not a starter. Bishop (27), Bobrosvky wasn't anything until 24...

Kari Lehtonen's a good example of what Mason can be. He was supposed to be the NHL's next franchise goaltender at one point, disappointed in his early 20s, then became a strong goaltender when he was around 27. Even his reputation is still hampered by the early disappointment... The reality is that goalies should not be considered polished until their mid to late 20s. Mason's career, for my money, is just starting now.


Last edited by hockeyfreak7: 06-03-2014 at 01:08 PM.
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