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For the Fire Renney crowd....

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Old
03-21-2007, 11:58 PM
  #1
Inferno
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For the Fire Renney crowd....

just wondering what you all think now?

And by you all, I am including myself in this.

I stand by my sentiment, he would make a better assistant coach than a head coach. Although its next to impossible to fire a guy because of this miraculous run this team is on, the guy should be on a very short leash (imho)


what about you guys?

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03-22-2007, 12:07 AM
  #2
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
just wondering what you all think now?

And by you all, I am including myself in this.

I stand by my sentiment, he would make a better assistant coach than a head coach. Although its next to impossible to fire a guy because of this miraculous run this team is on, the guy should be on a very short leash (imho)


what about you guys?
Was never in that crowd, but I did think he did alot of chaotic and non-sensical things with the line up for a long time (nothingto do with the issue of playing or not playing kids) that I though were hurting the team..But I always felt we would put it together....

The bottom line is Renney has the team playing it's best hockey of the year....They are playing disciplined, responsible, defensively focused, gutty/gritty hockey with not one ounce of quite in them over the past month...Please god let it continue for at least three more weeks..

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03-22-2007, 12:07 AM
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I don;t think you can discredit the hand he's had in turning the team around. Yes, Lundqvist is playing at a different level than he was... but the team has something to do with Lundqvist's play too and the team's play defensively has EVERYTHING to do with Renney.

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03-22-2007, 12:26 AM
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Talk about an awkward time to bring up this subject. The Rangers just played one of their best games of the season, and we want to re-visit this argument?

I've disagreed with some things Renney has done but I fully support him.

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03-22-2007, 12:35 AM
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FLYLine24
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When Lundqvist/Jagr/Shanny are at the top of their game...Renney looks likes the man..but when they aren't at the top of thier game..Renney is clueless what to do...I stand by my FIRE RENNEY argument. Renney can thank Lundqvist for making him look great over the past dozen games.

The fact still remains when Lundqvist or Jagr/Shanny aren't dominating..Renney doesn't know what the hell to do and the team can barely win a game.

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03-22-2007, 12:36 AM
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Inferno
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Originally Posted by Draft Guru View Post
Talk about an awkward time to bring up this subject. The Rangers just played one of their best games of the season, and we want to re-visit this argument?

I've disagreed with some things Renney has done but I fully support him.
thats kinda the whole point, just to see, when things are at their best, how many people have changed their minds.

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03-22-2007, 12:37 AM
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The team is playing the defensive system to a T right now. All the credit has to go to the coaching staff for getting the players to buy into it.

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03-22-2007, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
When Lundqvist/Jagr/Shanny are at the top of their game...Renney looks likes the man..but when they aren't at the top of thier game..Renney is clueless what to do...I stand by my FIRE RENNEY argument. Renney can thank Lundqvist for making him look great over the past dozen games.

The fact still remains when Lundqvist or Jagr/Shanny aren't dominating..Renney doesn't know what the hell to do and the team can barely win a game.
As a whole I tend to agree with you, though I don't know if I'm in the Fire Renney crowd.

Right now the team is playing good and Lundqvist is playing like a goalie god so the era of good feelings has started.

Ultimately my opinion of Renney is still the same for right now: I still have doubts about his ability to adjust things when they aren't working or think on the fly when his plans don't fall perfectly into place. I don't think he's nearly as bad of a coach as some make him out to be but I also don't think he's a guy who lands us a cup. However he could set things up so that the guy AFTER him wins.

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03-22-2007, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post

The fact still remains when Lundqvist or Jagr/Shanny aren't dominating..Renney doesn't know what the hell to do and the team can barely win a game.
I'm puzzled by this. Who's supposed to win you guys games if not Jagr and Shanahan? Your line-up, no offense, consists of two-way hustle guys, agitators and AHL call ups, especially with Straka on the shelf.

Again I never got the Fire Renney crowd. Yeah, there are moves you'll never understand of your coach. (it's no different with Ruff in Buffalo)
But you have to look at the big picture.

For one thing, he's on the verge of making the playoffs with a MUCH more modest team on paper than any of the huge-spending late nineties/2000-2005 teams.
He's also introduced a number of rookies that became, more or less, regular... Lundqvist, Prucha, Tyutin, Ortmeyer, Moore (yeah, gone now, ....still...), Girardi, Hollweg... Callahan's been looking like he belongs, that's what...? 8 NHLers in two years? That's pretty impressive (I'm not counting Immonen, Dawes and Pock... guys who haven't proven that much, and Dubinsky's not played that much yet).

If you don't trust your coach, that's one thing. But if he's getting results with a (very) limited offense - especially with jagr playing all season with half of his shoulder - and no-name defense, AND introducing young guys, why does it matter that sometimes some fans don't understand his moves?


Last edited by Corto: 03-22-2007 at 04:17 AM.
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03-22-2007, 03:09 AM
  #10
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Very nice post.

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03-22-2007, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
As a whole I tend to agree with you, though I don't know if I'm in the Fire Renney crowd.

Right now the team is playing good and Lundqvist is playing like a goalie god so the era of good feelings has started.

Ultimately my opinion of Renney is still the same for right now: I still have doubts about his ability to adjust things when they aren't working or think on the fly when his plans don't fall perfectly into place. I don't think he's nearly as bad of a coach as some make him out to be but I also don't think he's a guy who lands us a cup. However he could set things up so that the guy AFTER him wins.
that's pretty much been my sentiment all along edge.

however, ppl who are bringing up the whole "if the top guys don't do this or that then renney sucks" argument...i'm sorry, but the same can go for almost every team in the league.

the fact that he's doing it while the team has been hit by the injury bug the most he deserves a standing ovation for.

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03-22-2007, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
just wondering what you all think now?

And by you all, I am including myself in this.

I stand by my sentiment, he would make a better assistant coach than a head coach. Although its next to impossible to fire a guy because of this miraculous run this team is on, the guy should be on a very short leash (imho)


what about you guys?
A team starts playing desperate, inspired passionate hockey and the coach benefits.

as much as a coach will suffer whan that very same team is playing un-inspired, passionless hockey.

I think that the early season stumblings of this team really brought to light Renney's faults in that he has no real system for checking accountability, hie line combinations are dreadful (more Sather fault due to not getting the play-making center we need).

Renney has the PO's to secure next year. If he can manage to get this group to win a round, I'd have no issues bringing him back. It will show a marked improvement from last year and the year before (pre lockout).

Improvement is what we need to see and a series win will show me that this team has improved from the year before.

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Old
03-22-2007, 05:31 AM
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I tend to agree with Edge's assessment. The ability to adjust in game is a huge factor and one I place a premium on. Having had an personal experiences with coaches who could and could not make adjustments in anotehr sport I have a good understanding of the impact and advantage your team holds if your coach can and does make in game adjustments. Its call strategy.

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03-22-2007, 06:34 AM
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said it before, I'll say it again...

People wanting Renney out, have very very short memories.

You can't use the 'we win despite Renney' rubbish that gets spouted over and over, and then blame him for losses, it's an utter cop-out.

The ones who come out with the old beauty, that it's Jagr, Lundqvist, insert any other player who's playing real well, that's the reason the team are winning, also have very very short memories.

It's only a few short years back, when so called big stars, or good players on this team, wheren't helping the Rangers win.

So put 2 and 2 together, and realise, that it's the coach AND the players. It's about chemistry, and Renney to his credit, is doing something very right here.

He may not be the best, but he's the best the Rangers have had in years, and the guy and his staff, deserve some credit and support.

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03-22-2007, 07:05 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
just wondering what you all think now?

And by you all, I am including myself in this.

I stand by my sentiment, he would make a better assistant coach than a head coach. Although its next to impossible to fire a guy because of this miraculous run this team is on, the guy should be on a very short leash (imho)


what about you guys?
im with draft guru, i stand by what i said earlier i want him out of here, but now is not the time to talk about it, lets wait til they make the playoffs and won the stanley cup (and even if this team wins the cup i still want him to be fired, and im aware it sounds odd)

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03-22-2007, 07:31 AM
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Corto
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(and even if this team wins the cup i still want him to be fired, and im aware it sounds odd)
Yeah. It does.

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Old
03-22-2007, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
If you don't trust your coach, that's one thing. But if he's getting results with a (very) limited offense - especially with jagr playing all season with half of his shoulder - and no-name defense, AND introducing young guys, why does it matter that sometimes some fans don't understand his moves?
Well, it could certainly be argued that the "moves" in question were indeed preventing this team from realizing it's potential, and their play over the last few weeks almost proves the point. He's like Marcel Hossa. His performance for the better part of 2 years has been below expectations, but now that's he's strung together 3 good weeks, it's like anyone who once was critical of their previous sub-par performances immediately gets branded as some kind of hockey ****** that needs to be called out.

Any time the "Fire Renney" topic came up, the first thing I asked myself was who was the immediate or long term replacement. Without any kind of answer, put me in the "thinks we can do better than Renney" crowd despite his recent success.

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03-22-2007, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Corto View Post
I'm puzzled by this. Who's supposed to win you guys games if not Jagr and Shanahan? Your line-up, no offense, consists of two-way hustle guys, agitators and AHL call ups, especially with Straka on the shelf.

Again I never got the Fire Renney crowd. Yeah, there are moves you'll never understand of your coach. (it's no different with Ruff in Buffalo)
But you have to look at the big picture.

For one thing, he's on the verge of making the playoffs with a MUCH more modest team on paper than any of the huge-spending late nineties/2000-2005 teams.
He's also introduced a number of rookies that became, more or less, regular... Lundqvist, Prucha, Tyutin, Ortmeyer, Moore (yeah, gone now, ....still...), Girardi, Hollweg... Callahan's been looking like he belongs, that's what...? 8 NHLers in two years? That's pretty impressive (I'm not counting Immonen, Dawes and Pock... guys who haven't proven that much, and Dubinsky's not played that much yet).

If you don't trust your coach, that's one thing. But if he's getting results with a (very) limited offense - especially with jagr playing all season with half of his shoulder - and no-name defense, AND introducing young guys, why does it matter that sometimes some fans don't understand his moves?


Great post, Corto.

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Old
03-22-2007, 08:06 AM
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I have been and still am against firing Renney. But if that did happen I think that if Sather was smart, he would look no further then Jim Shoenfeld.
In the not so distant future I wouldn't mind seeing Donny become Pres, Renney become GM and Shoenny take over the reigns of the youth that he developed so well in Hartford. Messier can cut his teeth as an Ass. coach with the big boys or head coach of the Wolfpack.
I do believe that Ken Gernander has a future as a coach with this franchise also. At this point I would like to keep things in house...

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03-22-2007, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
As a whole I tend to agree with you, though I don't know if I'm in the Fire Renney crowd.

Right now the team is playing good and Lundqvist is playing like a goalie god so the era of good feelings has started.

Ultimately my opinion of Renney is still the same for right now: I still have doubts about his ability to adjust things when they aren't working or think on the fly when his plans don't fall perfectly into place. I don't think he's nearly as bad of a coach as some make him out to be but I also don't think he's a guy who lands us a cup. However he could set things up so that the guy AFTER him wins.
Eh, but honestly...the team as a whole has been playing better. It's not just Lundqvist playing out of his mind all of a sudden, and hell, Jagr and Co. haven't been carrying them these past few weeks.

Look at last night...Lundqvist had almost no work (though he did make some good and big saves). Same against Pittsburg for the most part...same against Boston. It's not that it's a total cakewalk for Lundqvist, he's still coming up with some huge saves and looking good, but the team has been playing better and helping him as well.

Who do we credit for getting the team to play better? I guess we could say it wasn't Renney and pin it all on the players, but I tend to think the coaching has something to do with it.

Renney does some things I don't agree with, and I think as a coach, he has a lot to learn...but he deserves some credit for the way the team has been playing.

But I do agree that his in game adjustment is usually poor, and I think he's guilty of overthinking things and trying to be cute with lineups and stuff like that.

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Old
03-22-2007, 08:15 AM
  #21
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Well I was a big part of the 'Fire Renney' crowd, and while I stand by what I said at the time, I think he needs to be given a lot of credit for what the team has accomplished the last three weeks. Like Bill Parcells says, 'you are your record', which means Renney is pretty good right now.

Having said that, I'm still wary of Renney being behind our bench in a playoff series, especially against a top coach. If Lundqvist keeps playing like this coaching will not be a big factor in a playoff series, but more likely we'll be playing someone very good, and even the first round will be a tough series.

I'll reserve my judgement until I see Renney lead us into the second round.

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03-22-2007, 08:25 AM
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One thing to examine, and I realize I'm probably repeating in my own words what others have said above, is how the team played without Shanny for 15 games, Jagr on an 8 game goalless streak, the loss of Toots, a resurgent Hossa, and an intermittent Straka, and all of that DOES have to do with good coaching.

Do I wish Dubi had a better look yes, and I would love to Immomen, Baranka, Dawes, Staal, and/or Liffiton make the team next year, but the fact that they are not on the team is NOT entirely Renny's fault. Sather & Maloney make the personnel calls, and Renny has to make playing time adjustments based on what he and the coaching staff see on the ice and in practice, and I would hazard to guess that all of those eyes and years of experience see things even the most die-hard, tape watching Ranger fan sees.

Renny has his faults, but the team has 83 points, is in seventh, and playing like they want to win, and at least some of that comes from Renny and his staff.

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03-22-2007, 08:55 AM
  #23
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How bout this team hasn't done anything yet this season...WOW they won a few games in a row yet are still only 3 points up on a playoff spot...

For the "told you so crowd" what are you going to say if the Rangers i don't know go back to playing like they did the majority of the season....

Renney is a good head coach but I still don't think he is the guy to take the team to the next step....

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03-22-2007, 09:17 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
When Lundqvist/Jagr/Shanny are at the top of their game...Renney looks likes the man..but when they aren't at the top of thier game..Renney is clueless what to do...I stand by my FIRE RENNEY argument. Renney can thank Lundqvist for making him look great over the past dozen games.

The fact still remains when Lundqvist or Jagr/Shanny aren't dominating..Renney doesn't know what the hell to do and the team can barely win a game.
Show me one coach in the league who can win when his goalie and/or best players aren't playing well.

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03-22-2007, 09:18 AM
  #25
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Renney

<Sheepishly raises hand as a former Renney basher.>

I even called WFAN once about the team slipping away from this guy for the 2nd time in as many seasons. Looks like I was wrong about the guy. I always thought he was a great hockey mind, but didn't think he had the moxy to coach the New York Rangers into the playoffs. The team is firing on al cylinders now, at a time when it matters most.

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