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Old
06-02-2014, 09:46 AM
  #101
arby18
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
No loss. Thinking we'll never hear from them in the future.
No loss? A 39th overall selection flushed down the toilet isn't a loss?

Chevy's let Zach Yuen (who he traded two picks to move up and take) and now Lukas Sutter (a top-40 pick) go to waste in subsequent drafts. I can't wait to see who from the 2013 draft goes unsigned...

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06-02-2014, 10:26 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arby18 View Post
No loss? A 39th overall selection flushed down the toilet isn't a loss?

Chevy's let Zach Yuen (who he traded two picks to move up and take) and now Lukas Sutter (a top-40 pick) go to waste in subsequent drafts. I can't wait to see who from the 2013 draft goes unsigned...
But Chevy didn't flush the pick, Sutter flushed himself. I'm not Chevy's biggest fan at the moment either but at the same time when your draft pick ride's his name then subsequently craps the bed with his performance/attitude for a couple of years post draft, I'm not laying that on the GM.

As for the 2013 draft, I'm guessing anyone that doesn't perform to expectations will go unsigned and I have precisely zero problem with our GM not signing guys who aren't cutting it.

I'm worried about the ghosts of neither Yuen or Sutter coming back to haunt us.

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06-02-2014, 11:19 AM
  #103
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I don't much care about prospects washing out. It happens, I do wonder why the Jets continually stay so far below the 50 contract limit though. They could have signed a a handful of UFA lotto tickets that would have either shown and proven or been out of the system at this point. There is zero down side apart from money.

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06-02-2014, 11:30 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arby18 View Post
No loss? A 39th overall selection flushed down the toilet isn't a loss?

Chevy's let Zach Yuen (who he traded two picks to move up and take) and now Lukas Sutter (a top-40 pick) go to waste in subsequent drafts. I can't wait to see who from the 2013 draft goes unsigned...
Everything in hindsight is 20/20. No one has a crystal ball, but you go with what you know at the time. At the time it looked right and it hasn't panned out. If you feel you can do a better job as a GM then by all means fill your boots.

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06-02-2014, 11:41 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Duir View Post
Everything in hindsight is 20/20. No one has a crystal ball, but you go with what you know at the time. At the time it looked right and it hasn't panned out. If you feel you can do a better job as a GM then by all means fill your boots.
That's just it, though. It didn't then and it looks even worse now.

What was Sutter's absolute ceiling if everything panned out? A bottom-6 gritty forward? Drafted inside the top-40? It didn't make sense to me then and it makes even less sense now.

Lots of talented players were passed over for Sutter, who wasn't very talented to begin with but had "great bloodlines". Heck, Kosmachuk who was taken 31 spots later at #70 had/has WAY more talent.

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06-02-2014, 01:59 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by arby18 View Post
That's just it, though. It didn't then and it looks even worse now.

What was Sutter's absolute ceiling if everything panned out? A bottom-6 gritty forward? Drafted inside the top-40? It didn't make sense to me then and it makes even less sense now.

Lots of talented players were passed over for Sutter, who wasn't very talented to begin with but had "great bloodlines". Heck, Kosmachuk who was taken 31 spots later at #70 had/has WAY more talent.
I find I sleep better if I pretend we took Kosmo in the 2nd and Sutter in the 3rd

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06-02-2014, 02:06 PM
  #107
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I have to agree with arby, it was a strange pick right from the beginning.

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06-03-2014, 04:59 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I find I sleep better if I pretend we took Kosmo in the 2nd and Sutter in the 3rd
I believe that's what I said the day after the 2012 draft. Actually I know I did.

I also did this:

Consensus rankings (weighted avg of multiple scouting sources; weighted by success rates) vs where Jets took them

That didn't look good to me at the time, although... I didn't think of Sutter as a bad prospect to have.

It was the process of why he was selected where he was. He was well known for not having much offensive upside.

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06-03-2014, 06:36 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I don't much care about prospects washing out. It happens, I do wonder why the Jets continually stay so far below the 50 contract limit though. They could have signed a a handful of UFA lotto tickets that would have either shown and proven or been out of the system at this point. There is zero down side apart from money.
Are there any numbers on the % of players that aren't signed after they are drafted? Having one a drafted washout a season doesn't seem too bad to me.

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06-03-2014, 07:11 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Are there any numbers on the % of players that aren't signed after they are drafted? Having one a drafted washout a season doesn't seem too bad to me.
According to this thread

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1675191

There are 28 unsigned from 2012. (13.2%)
23 will re-enter the draft. (10.9%)

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06-03-2014, 04:17 PM
  #111
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Was a little surprised that Brady Vail went unsigned. I think he's worth a punt.

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06-03-2014, 04:41 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Are there any numbers on the % of players that aren't signed after they are drafted? Having one a drafted washout a season doesn't seem too bad to me.
i think the main concern is having the 39th overall pick wash out, and then essentially having 2 washout (yuen) because you traded two picks to move up and take him.

if we'd had 2 different 4th-7th rounders not get signed no one would really worry.

not to mention, there's ncaa guys in there that may still also wash out, so having a playe rthat was picked that high and wash out that early is a little alarming.

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06-03-2014, 08:22 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
According to this thread

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1675191

There are 28 unsigned from 2012. (13.2%)
23 will re-enter the draft. (10.9%)
So approx 1 player per team per draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
i think the main concern is having the 39th overall pick wash out, and then essentially having 2 washout (yuen) because you traded two picks to move up and take him.

if we'd had 2 different 4th-7th rounders not get signed no one would really worry.

not to mention, there's ncaa guys in there that may still also wash out, so having a playe rthat was picked that high and wash out that early is a little alarming.
I hear you, you never want to see your 2nd rounder washout so soon, but better to cut a player free than hold on just because he was picked in an early round.

In the big picture there will be some busts, some earlier, some later, but even among the guys that sign most will never play in the NHL.

If the Jets can get to and then maintain that magical 2 players per draft that make it I'll be happy. So far the early returns are good.

2011 already has Scheifele, and Lowry looks to be there one day in the not too distant future.

2012 we will likely get 3 with Trouba, Kosmachuk and Hellofagoalie

2013 Morrissey and at least one other, and a good chance more than that.

If we can get our share of actual NHL players I can live with our share of washouts. Hell when you're picking 18 year old kids its amazing they get as much right as they do.

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06-03-2014, 09:04 PM
  #114
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Welp first post- lets not blow this!
Obviously not all our prospects will turn out, but assuming the ones that look real good right now end up turning into roster players, this could be our roster in 3 years:
E. Kane/ M. Scheifele / ???
A. Ladd/ B. Little / B. Wheeler
M. Frolik / N. Petan / S. Kossy
C. Klingberg / A. Lowry / JC Lipon
P. Cormier & A. Peluso/ (Copp?)

J. Morrissey / J. Trouba
(????) / Z. Bogosian
B. Kichton / Z. Redmond / K. Ellerby

Goalies: Clutch and Hellboy

In 3 years maybe Burmi is here and our 2014 first rounder is there and maybe the 2015 1st. This also doesn't count any return you would get for trading Buff, Enstrom, and Stu.. (and then there is the 1st overall pick in 2015 we will acquire for James Wright straight up). That prospect team isn't winning a cup but add in a couple veteran FAs and what you get for those 3 trades, and our team is looking pretty solid. Chevy's drafting seems to be more then acceptable IMO.

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06-03-2014, 09:37 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by 19kiefer94 View Post
Welp first post- lets not blow this!
Obviously not all our prospects will turn out, but assuming the ones that look real good right now end up turning into roster players, this could be our roster in 3 years:
E. Kane/ M. Scheifele / ???
A. Ladd/ B. Little / B. Wheeler
M. Frolik / N. Petan / S. Kossy
C. Klingberg / A. Lowry / JC Lipon
P. Cormier & A. Peluso/ (Copp?)

J. Morrissey / J. Trouba
(????) / Z. Bogosian
B. Kichton / Z. Redmond / K. Ellerby

Goalies: Clutch and Hellboy

In 3 years maybe Burmi is here and our 2014 first rounder is there and maybe the 2015 1st. This also doesn't count any return you would get for trading Buff, Enstrom, and Stu.. (and then there is the 1st overall pick in 2015 we will acquire for James Wright straight up). That prospect team isn't winning a cup but add in a couple veteran FAs and what you get for those 3 trades, and our team is looking pretty solid. Chevy's drafting seems to be more then acceptable IMO.
Welcome aboard. If we go with your lineup, we should get a nice piece for Buff. Hopefully a roster player plus pick and/or prospect. So maybe that fills out the top 6. Personally I see no reason to trade Enstrom. You'd get a nice return for him, but a top 4 of Trouba, Morrissey, Enstrom and Bogo could be pretty dominant down the line. And as you said it isn't factoring any future picks or FA signings.

I'm with you on the optimism. My tendency is still to be optimistic about the future. As a fan it sure beats crapping on everything.

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06-03-2014, 09:43 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Welcome aboard. If we go with your lineup, we should get a nice piece for Buff. Hopefully a roster player plus pick and/or prospect. So maybe that fills out the top 6. Personally I see no reason to trade Enstrom. You'd get a nice return for him, but a top 4 of Trouba, Morrissey, Enstrom and Bogo could be pretty dominant down the line. And as you said it isn't factoring any future picks or FA signings.

I'm with you on the optimism. My tendency is still to be optimistic about the future. As a fan it sure beats crapping on everything.
Thanks! and for me personally I see Morrissey becoming the new (hopefully upgraded) Enstrom. As soon as he surpasses Enstrom or equals him I think you have to move Toby. I like Toby but is there room for 2 very similar undersized LHD especially in the West?

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06-03-2014, 11:28 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by 19kiefer94 View Post
Thanks! and for me personally I see Morrissey becoming the new (hopefully upgraded) Enstrom. As soon as he surpasses Enstrom or equals him I think you have to move Toby. I like Toby but is there room for 2 very similar undersized LHD especially in the West?
I agree with this.
Morrissey is to Enstrom as Trouba was to Byfuglien...only the timing is uncertain.
You best trade core pieces only when there is a replacement for them. That just started to happen to the Jets this season.

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06-04-2014, 05:08 AM
  #118
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I agree with this.
Morrissey is to Enstrom as Trouba was to Byfuglien...only the timing is uncertain.
You best trade core pieces only when there is a replacement for them. That just started to happen to the Jets this season.
The difference though is you have Bogosian in the mix on the right side with the Trouba/Byfuglien situation (ps interestingly enough, their fancy stats numbers are very similar in Buff/Trouba...)

With Enstrom/Morrissey you don't really have that 2nd guy unless Clitsome recovers well and picks it up. I had hopes at one point for Melchiori, but I don't think Jets really have a 3rd top 4 left guy. Hopefully sooner or later we do (Fleury? )

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06-04-2014, 06:09 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
The difference though is you have Bogosian in the mix on the right side with the Trouba/Byfuglien situation (ps interestingly enough, their fancy stats numbers are very similar in Buff/Trouba...)

With Enstrom/Morrissey you don't really have that 2nd guy unless Clitsome recovers well and picks it up. I had hopes at one point for Melchiori, but I don't think Jets really have a 3rd top 4 left guy. Hopefully sooner or later we do (Fleury? )
That's pretty much how I see it. If Morrissey turns out to be the type of player that seems possible, a really slick smooth skating puck mover, it might make sense to move Enstrom if you had another LHD that was a legit top 4 player. But until than a top 4 of Morrissey, Trouba, Bogo and Enstrom looks pretty good to me. Assuming of course Morrissey earns that spot.

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06-04-2014, 09:21 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
The difference though is you have Bogosian in the mix on the right side with the Trouba/Byfuglien situation (ps interestingly enough, their fancy stats numbers are very similar in Buff/Trouba...)

With Enstrom/Morrissey you don't really have that 2nd guy unless Clitsome recovers well and picks it up. I had hopes at one point for Melchiori, but I don't think Jets really have a 3rd top 4 left guy. Hopefully sooner or later we do (Fleury? )
That is true enough. OTOH, Enstrom is our oldest 'core' piece (older than Buff), and I believe he may deteriorate even faster than Buff. He is also probably worth a lot on the trade market, but not for long. So, with all the hue and cry about trading core players sooner than later, he has to be in the mix. Morrissey's emergence may give us a time frame to consider it.

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06-04-2014, 11:03 AM
  #121
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Does Morrissey look like a slightly better skating Brian Campbell with better defense?

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10-07-2014, 10:06 AM
  #122
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Time for an update to the org chart?

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