HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

For the Fire Renney crowd....

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-22-2007, 09:51 AM
  #26
Larry Melnyk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gloomsville, USA
Posts: 4,376
vCash: 500
To me, the most important things an NHL coach can do at this time of year are the following: 1) Build or sustain a team that fights and plays for each other, never quits and works its' collective ass off; 2) Have the team motivates nad prepared every single night; 3) Instill or sustain a sense of discipline, responsibility and an attention to defense; 4) Get the most (in a team sense) out of every player on the roster, form it's weakest (youngest) to it's stongest (oldest).

Renney has been doing all this in spades for the past month...Whether it's due to strong coaching, luck, players finally taking their job (and caoch) serisouly, impoved personnel (great moves by Sather to pick up Mara and Avery) or all of the above, doesn't matter much...And it Doesn't mean he wasn't doing some wrong things earlier in the year and that their shouldn't be some concern about the rest of the way, but he definetley has captained a ship that has righted itself...Gets some credit when it's doing well and blame when it isn't..Nature of the beat...

Larry Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 11:07 AM
  #27
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
As a whole I tend to agree with you, though I don't know if I'm in the Fire Renney crowd.

Right now the team is playing good and Lundqvist is playing like a goalie god so the era of good feelings has started.

Ultimately my opinion of Renney is still the same for right now: I still have doubts about his ability to adjust things when they aren't working or think on the fly when his plans don't fall perfectly into place. I don't think he's nearly as bad of a coach as some make him out to be but I also don't think he's a guy who lands us a cup. However he could set things up so that the guy AFTER him wins.
Thats all I've ever expected from day one. Even if this team goes deep into the PO's, we're building a foundation and thats has been my wish since 1998.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 11:18 AM
  #28
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,567
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Eh, but honestly...the team as a whole has been playing better. It's not just Lundqvist playing out of his mind all of a sudden, and hell, Jagr and Co. haven't been carrying them these past few weeks.
Good point Levitate, we have outshot the other team something like 19 out of the last 21 games. Thats one stat that you can say for sure Lundqvist have nothing to do with at all.

Now we are giving up some bad scoringchances, maybe more then other teams, so yeah Lundqvist is really really important for us.

But we are also playing damn well as a team!

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 11:47 AM
  #29
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 11,544
vCash: 500
I honestly think that the problem for most of the season was that Renney didn't have an emotional catalyst with which to energize, motivate and focus the team. Last year, that catalyst was Kasparaitis until he got hurt. This year, at this point, that player is Avery. A good coach uses a player like that to make his entire team better, not just one line or player. Unfortunately, there was no player to do that with for the most of the season. Is it any surprise that the Rangers are 12-4-5 with Avery in the lineup? Do we really think Renney has nothing to do with it?

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 11:52 AM
  #30
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,834
vCash: 500
Awards:
THe biggest difference, IMO has been the forechecking.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 11:53 AM
  #31
NYROrtsFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,931
vCash: 500
The guy is going to end up going to the playoffs in both of his years as head coach... it is tough to go nuts over him.

Especially considering last year because that team shouldn't have made the playoffs on paper.


Think the whole "he has no clue what to do without Jagr and Shanahan" argument is stupid though... Those two are your best players and every single coach in every single sport needs production out of their best players. And they will have trouble winning if they dont get it.

NYROrtsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 12:09 PM
  #32
NYR94
Registered User
 
NYR94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,703
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to NYR94
I am not a big Renney fan either, but I don't know if there are any suitable replacements out there that would be an improvement. So I'd be reluctant to fire him. But if the Rangers make the playoffs this year and fail to win a single game for the second year in a row, then you have to consider it.

And I do think he is getting too much credit for the Rangers' recent success. It's like Melrose_Jr. said--a guy like Renney or Hossa has a few weeks of success and everyone forgets about the previous months of disappointment. Look at how late it is in the season, then look at the Rangers' place in the standings. It's not Renney's brilliant coaching that is getting them to play like this. It's called DESPERATION. The players are motivated because they don't want to miss the playoffs. Not because Tom Renney has tapped into their heads and convinced them to play harder. If you need a coach to motivate you at this time of the year, then something is seriously wrong.

Renney just does weird things. He plays Malik a lot late in games even though he knows he's slow and prone to lazy hooking penalties, deflections and losing his man. He played Prucha on the third and fourth line in favor of Hossa. He has some strange allegiance to Rozsival on the power play even though Mara, Tyutin, Rachunek and Cullen are better on the point. He gave Shanahan unnecessary penalty killing minutes before his injury. Played Betts as a 2nd line center. There are just too many lineup gaffes to list.

Renney does a great job keeping Jagr happy which is clearly a key to this team's success (and has no problem scratching those who step out of line, like Aaron Ward), so you have to give him credit for maintaining a pleasant atmosphere in the dressing room for Jagr. And we all know that a happy Jagr is a productive Jagr, or as productive as he can be with his shoulder not being 100%. Add to that a goalie that is playing as well as anyone as of late, and you're going to win more games than you lose.

But the Rangers' performance in the playoffs, if they get there, will be key.

NYR94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 12:09 PM
  #33
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
THe biggest difference, IMO has been the forechecking.
Which is directly linked to the overall speed of the team, IMO.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 12:12 PM
  #34
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post

And I do think he is getting too much credit for the Rangers' recent success. It's like Melrose_Jr. said--a guy like Renney or Hossa has a few weeks of success and everyone forgets about the previous months of disappointment. Look at how late it is in the season, then look at the Rangers' place in the standings. It's not Renney's brilliant coaching that is getting them to play like this. It's called DESPERATION. The players are motivated because they don't want to miss the playoffs. Not because Tom Renney has tapped into their heads and convinced them to play harder. If you need a coach to motivate you at this time of the year, then something is seriously wrong.
Thats not what I give him and his staff credit for, its for staying calm and not letting the team fold when the injuries mounted as well as the losses.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 12:34 PM
  #35
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 11,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
Look at how late it is in the season, then look at the Rangers' place in the standings. It's not Renney's brilliant coaching that is getting them to play like this. It's called DESPERATION. The players are motivated because they don't want to miss the playoffs. Not because Tom Renney has tapped into their heads and convinced them to play harder. If you need a coach to motivate you at this time of the year, then something is seriously wrong.
I'm not saying Renney is a brilliant coach, but this is far from the first time we were sitting in a spot like 12th in February and this is practically the first time (at least in a very long time) the team is making a real run instead of just staying on the bubble for the rest of the season. To me... yes, it's desperation, but teams don't just start playing with a sense of desperation without someone instilling that sense in them. That's where I think the coaching staff, led by Renney, has done a good job.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 12:40 PM
  #36
pyattrocks*
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
vCash: 500
Injuries and trades are the only reason Renney turned this team around. He had to play a kid from Hartford and Girardi got the call. He had to play Callahan and that is working out great. Avery brought in made this team a lot better. Rachunek going out has also helped a lot. People said he was playing well. Rachunek is horrible. Nothing has changed. That and Lundqvist is making him look smart again.

pyattrocks* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 12:46 PM
  #37
pyattrocks*
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
vCash: 500
The amount of Renney blunders this year have been incredible.

1. He didn't have a clue how to use Dawes and has treated him terribly. We could have badly used a scorer all year.

2. Rachunek should have never been on the team over Baranka to start. Baranka embarrassed him in camp.

3. He was so lost on how to use Cullen I can't even go into it. It would take too long.

4. He played Shanny till he dropped because he insisted on using him on the PK unit.

5. He refused to stick with Prucha for most of the season after he scored 30 goals last year in 68 games but had no problem sticking with other guys like Betts who average 10 points a season.

6. He had Betts and Hollweg on scoring lines for stretches when they have no offensive ability.

7. He punished young players for one mistake while letting clowns like Malik, Rachunek, Nylander and Rosival go unpunished.

8. His line combo's have been awful all season till the past 2 weeks.

9. I still can't figure out what Isbister is doing on this team. He is terrible. I know hw will be replaced if Hossa comes back but what is the point having him here. Why not give Dawes or Korpikoski a chance.

10. Putting Straka on the PP when the season is on the line and he can't shoot is beyond stupid.

pyattrocks* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 01:56 PM
  #38
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,964
vCash: 500
I was or am in the Fire Renney crowd.

I don't regret anything I said over the first half of the season, but he's earned a reprieve since the All-star break. The team defense was non-existant, there was no accountability, there was no discipline.

Complete turnaround since then and he deserves alot of credit. While it's not fair to play the whole "its Jagr/Lundqvist when we win and Renney when we lose", he isn't absolved totally because they have had the potential all along. They were playing the wrong system and they were playing stupid. Passes through the middle, turnovers, horrible coverage... He should have recognized some of these problems earlier than Jan 23, but better late than never.

Next point of contention betweent the 2 Renney factions is this: Who gets sent down when Straka returns? I'll guarentee that all bets are off if he sends Callahan down over Isbister.

DutchShamrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 02:12 PM
  #39
dave4
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyattrocks View Post
The amount of Renney blunders this year have been incredible.

1. He didn't have a clue how to use Dawes and has treated him terribly. We could have badly used a scorer all year.

2. Rachunek should have never been on the team over Baranka to start. Baranka embarrassed him in camp.

3. He was so lost on how to use Cullen I can't even go into it. It would take too long.

4. He played Shanny till he dropped because he insisted on using him on the PK unit.

5. He refused to stick with Prucha for most of the season after he scored 30 goals last year in 68 games but had no problem sticking with other guys like Betts who average 10 points a season.

6. He had Betts and Hollweg on scoring lines for stretches when they have no offensive ability.

7. He punished young players for one mistake while letting clowns like Malik, Rachunek, Nylander and Rosival go unpunished.

8. His line combo's have been awful all season till the past 2 weeks.

9. I still can't figure out what Isbister is doing on this team. He is terrible. I know hw will be replaced if Hossa comes back but what is the point having him here. Why not give Dawes or Korpikoski a chance.

10. Putting Straka on the PP when the season is on the line and he can't shoot is beyond stupid.
Some very cogent points.

1. Jury is still out on that one.

2. Somewhat agree. But maybe Baranka could have used more seasoning. Hard to judge that now.

3. TOTALLY agree. Although Renney did take unfair criticism for using him in SO's then wasn't given enough credit when Cullen won a recent game in the shootout.

4. TOTALLY agree. Still boggles the mind that Shanahan played more minutes for us this year than he has in years. Hopefully the forced rest will leave him rejuvenated for the playoffs.

5. Agree to some extent. Prucha caused some of his own problems, but I think a different coach could have figured out how to get more out of him.

6. Meh. I don't remember it being that often.

7. TOTALLY agree, although he did bench Nylander in that important Islander game after the double minor, and he was roasted for that too. Sometimes a coach can't win. But Malik is allowed to make mistake after mistake and he stays in the lineup. I know, I know, the +/-......

8. More like past two months.

9. Yeah, I guess. I don't mind having Isbister in the lineup now that we are playing a lot of kids, but two months ago when Isbister was the first one called up, that was bad.

10. I don't know. Only Straka (and Renney to some extent) can judge that.

dave4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 02:23 PM
  #40
JRGNYR
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 206
vCash: 500
I don't think I've ever been fully in the "Fire Renney" camp but I have taken issue with his personnel decisions over the course of the year. A couple of things, though...

1. The emergence of Marcel Hossa before he got hurt was all Renney. I think about 99% of us on this board are eating crow over this. I just hope he gets back to 100% and can play his game again when he's healthy.

2. The emergence of Ryan Callahan softens the Nigel Dawes argument a bit. Who is to say that if Callahan were Dawes earlier this season and not given a chance, and then Dawes was the one who came up a week ago, that we would not be all having a Nigel Dawes man crush right now? I still think Dawes has a future on this team.

3. The team has played its best hockey this season in the face of adversity. Players go down, and the team hunkers down and actually plays better? Then you have guys like Dan Girardi and Ryan Callahan come up from Hartford during the season and suddenly play like they belong. When was the last time we saw that in this franchise?

I'm not going to let Renney off the hook on misusing certain players, and this team still has needs (#1 d-man, for starters)... but I think in terms of the big picture, we're starting to see a lot of positives with this team, things that might not necessarily pay off in this year's postseason if they get there, but maybe 2-3 years down the line.

JRGNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 03:15 PM
  #41
AJ1982
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to AJ1982
You judge a coach by what he has done over his entire history and what he is currently doing. This season has been a mixed bag for Renney and over his career he has been average or sub-par. Obviously right now things are going well. That's the way it goes for a coach, especially an average one. An average coach sort of rides the roller coaster without actually having too much effect. I don't really credit Renney as much as I credit a guy like Lundqvist who has been playing very very well and a guy like Avery who has added a different dynamic to this team that has been lacking. I suppose some credit should be given to Sather for the Avery move. I also think that the injury crisis has done more to motivate this team than Renney. All that said, Renney is still an average coach, there are better coaches out there and barring a run to the second round of the playoffs we ought to look into getting one of those better coaches.

AJ1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 03:17 PM
  #42
in the hall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
just wondering what you all think now?

And by you all, I am including myself in this.

I stand by my sentiment, he would make a better assistant coach than a head coach. Although its next to impossible to fire a guy because of this miraculous run this team is on, the guy should be on a very short leash (imho)


what about you guys?
the team has made a complete 180 in performance, obviously no one will be calling for his head now.. Renney has changed his style a bit (his use of callahan/dubinsky/girardi.. confidence in players he wouldn't feel comfortable playing for many minutes), there still is some left to be desired though

in the hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 04:19 PM
  #43
BwayBshirt
Registered User
 
BwayBshirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My NY State of Mind
Country: United States
Posts: 3,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ1982 View Post
You judge a coach by what he has done over his entire history and what he is currently doing. This season has been a mixed bag for Renney and over his career he has been average or sub-par. Obviously right now things are going well. That's the way it goes for a coach, especially an average one. An average coach sort of rides the roller coaster without actually having too much effect. I don't really credit Renney as much as I credit a guy like Lundqvist who has been playing very very well and a guy like Avery who has added a different dynamic to this team that has been lacking. I suppose some credit should be given to Sather for the Avery move. I also think that the injury crisis has done more to motivate this team than Renney. All that said, Renney is still an average coach, there are better coaches out there and barring a run to the second round of the playoffs we ought to look into getting one of those better coaches.
now here's the million $$$ question...

who out there is a better coach than renney for this team right now?

BwayBshirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 04:51 PM
  #44
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,834
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCaptain11 View Post
now here's the million $$$ question...

who out there is a better coach than renney for this team right now?
That's a exactly right. And that has been my response all season to the people who have said to fire him. You can't just say fire him. You have to have a candidate available that you can say with the utmost certainty will be better than Renney.

The bottom line is Renney has done the best job of any Ranger coach in a decade.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 04:55 PM
  #45
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's a exactly right. And that has been my response all season to the people who have said to fire him. You can't just say fire him. You have to have a candidate available that you can say with the utmost certainty will be better than Renney.

The bottom line is Renney has done the best job of any Ranger coach in a decade.
Hear hear !


Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 05:01 PM
  #46
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,481
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's a exactly right. And that has been my response all season to the people who have said to fire him. You can't just say fire him. You have to have a candidate available that you can say with the utmost certainty will be better than Renney.

The bottom line is Renney has done the best job of any Ranger coach in a decade.
I think the majority of posters that wanted Renney fired came up with other choices...


Renney has done a better job but he also had a better team...a better goalie...and a better prospect pool to choose from...

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 05:03 PM
  #47
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,834
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I think the majority of posters that wanted Renney fired came up with other choices...


Renney has done a better job but he also had a better team...a better goalie...and a better prospect pool to choose from...
The only candidate I remember being mentioned was Schoenfeld. And maybe a Keenan here and there.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 05:07 PM
  #48
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,481
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The only candidate I remember being mentioned was Schoenfeld. And maybe a Keenan here and there.
I can remember names like Hitchcock when he was out there....

That's two names though...and two guys WHO might get more out of the roster...

I don't think Renney is a bad choice but he is the Buck Showalter of hockey...Can get a team to the next step but not the final step....

Lets face it if the Rangers don't have an excellant March and we are talking replacments right now....

This team has also not MADE the playoffs yet....Two losses this weekend and we could be talking about Renney getting fired....

It's just too soon to get excited over anything.....

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 05:46 PM
  #49
True Blue Bleed Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,132
vCash: 500
Great job by Tom to turn things around...the only reason I ever wanted him fired was because it just seemed like there was nothing else to wake this team up

True Blue Bleed Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2007, 05:51 PM
  #50
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,567
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ1982 View Post
You judge a coach by what he has done over his entire history and what he is currently doing. This season has been a mixed bag for Renney and over his career he has been average or sub-par.
I don't know about that. I mean for hockey Canada he is still their top guy among all Canadian coaches, BB interviewed their boss and he singed love praises for Renney, noting that Murray often by media were said to be Canada's top coach, but went on and declared that if thats the case, Tom Renney were 1A.

Renney had a really good career before getting the job in Vancouver, where defenitly seen as Canada's young and bright and shining coaching star at that time, and got a very sought after job. Where he ran into Mark Messier wanting things to be done his way, Alex Mogilny, Pavel Bure and co. A team with a ton of expectations and not much to back it up with besides a old Mess and two young russian stars that couldn't play with each other... That team didn't exactly do better after Renney where fired.

We can never forget that a coach never makes a team, it have never even been close, and will never ever happend. Often media makes out a coach like a huge reason for why his team were so great, then the same coach gets a new job in another organization, and fails, had he became a worse coach? All veteran coaches says the same thing, if it goes well you get to much cred, if it goes bad you get too much blame.

In international hockey he got a great track record.

He have done pretty well here to this date.

Renney have had a ton of success everywhere he have been, except in Vancouver. I wouldn't call that avg, its allot better then allot of the old players coaching/GM's who are stepping down ect.

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.