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kudos to rangers farm system & scouts...

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Old
03-22-2007, 03:50 PM
  #1
djavan
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kudos to rangers farm system & scouts...

forgive me if this has been raised in any earlier posts, but the rangers fans should really be proud of their scouts and farm guys... dubinsky, callahan and girardi have stepped in and done a very good job...

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03-22-2007, 04:03 PM
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Go away, your valid and spot on posts are not welcome here


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03-23-2007, 08:54 AM
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djavan
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Go away, your valid and spot on posts are not welcome here



thank you, I think...

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03-23-2007, 09:11 AM
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thank you, I think...
yeah, it was a compliment.

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03-23-2007, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by djavan View Post
forgive me if this has been raised in any earlier posts, but the rangers fans should really be proud of their scouts and farm guys... dubinsky, callahan and girardi have stepped in and done a very good job...
they also trained Tyutin, who was our best defender till he got hurt, as well as Hollweg and Orts

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03-23-2007, 09:53 AM
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this is a far cry from the rangers of the past. Ten years ago the idea of calling someone up from the minors seemed like an completely unthinkable idea for the Ranger's brass at the time. It is a great thing to have such a great pool of young players to pull from. Right now there are a bunch of guys in hartford that could easily come up and play(and excel) in the NHL. So the future seems to be bright, but being a Ranger fan i can not shake the sinking feeling that any day now Glen Sather will trade all our prospects away for a bunch of forty year old, injury plagued, ex-superstars.

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03-23-2007, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by djavan View Post
forgive me if this has been raised in any earlier posts, but the rangers fans should really be proud of their scouts and farm guys... dubinsky, callahan and girardi have stepped in and done a very good job...
you cant be effing serious?! except for Christer Rockstrom who gut us Lundqvist and (i think) Prucha, the rest of the scouts blow!!!

you need evidence? check who the rangers missed in the drafts and the bums they picked instead in the last 10+ years!

fair enough, there are always hidden gems in drafts and nothing is a given, but just looking at the past 10 years... pathetic!

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03-23-2007, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Osminator View Post
you cant be effing serious?! except for Christer Rockstrom who gut us Lundqvist and (i think) Prucha, the rest of the scouts blow!!!

you need evidence? check who the rangers missed in the drafts and the bums they picked instead in the last 10+ years!

fair enough, there are always hidden gems in drafts and nothing is a given, but just looking at the past 10 years... pathetic!
Somehow, by mentioning guys like DUbinsky, Girardi and Callahan, I think he was talking about the more recent efforts..And I agree with him...I like what the organization has done the past 3-4 years..Don't see the reason for the headshaking..

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03-23-2007, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Somehow, by mentioning guys like DUbinsky, Girardi and Callahan, I think he was talking about the more recent efforts..And I agree with him...I like what the organization has done the past 3-4 years..Don't see the reason for the headshaking..
i doubt it any of the 3 would have seen ranger ice time if not for the many many injuries... lets face it... this is the rangers..

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03-23-2007, 12:19 PM
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"Not that you ever wish for injuries, but in one way, I was hoping some of the Hartford players got more of a realistic look," Rangers assistant general manager Don Maloney said. "The Hartford recalls have been tremendous, and it's really a credit to the coaching staff. The depth of the organization has been exposed, in a positive way.

"Girardi is playing like a five-year pro, as steady and reliable as they come. If you give Callahan good ice time, he'll be a productive player. Immonen and Dubinsky have been good, Dawes is waiting his turn again, and Liffiton brought an element that we didn't have, toughness and grit. The quality of the call-ups is better than ever, and I think we're going to have at least a half-dozen guys from Hartford who are going to be regular NHL players in the next year or two, as opposed to short-term fill-ins"
http://www.courant.com/sports/hockey...adlines-hockey

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03-23-2007, 12:26 PM
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Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Osminator View Post
i doubt it any of the 3 would have seen ranger ice time if not for the many many injuries... lets face it... this is the rangers..
Which is a different topic...And maybe they wouldn't have, and in the case of Dubi, shouldn't have...But how well these kids have performed when called. shows how well the Rangers handled their development this season because none of them were seen as NHL-ready players coming into the season, and I was higher on Girardi then almost anybody on here earlier in the season..But hey, if they're young, they have to play even if they weren't ready...

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03-23-2007, 12:29 PM
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I agree with Maloney and you also have some kids form juniors (Stall, Pyatt,Dupont) that could be on the fast track like Callahan..Which means it's gonna be awfully hard to squeeze these "at least 6" NHL players onto the roster..Can you say Trade?

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03-23-2007, 12:55 PM
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i doubt it any of the 3 would have seen ranger ice time if not for the many many injuries... lets face it... this is the rangers..
i agree with that 110% but that is another issue and not the fault of the scouts or guys in hartford. if the kids don't get called up because there are no good kids to call up that can be blamed on the scouts and staff in hartford. but if the players are there and BETTER than some of the vets but the organization chooses to keep playing the vets instead thats a problem with sather, maloney and co.

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03-23-2007, 01:02 PM
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i agree completely with that assessment that our depth is being shown in a positive way and we are starting to see how good some of the kids can be...but that doesn't change the fact that those kids only got a chance because of injuries...

and also doesn't change the fact that all indication is that the rangers plan to bring back jagr, straka, nylander, shanahan, avery, cullen, betts, ortmeyer, orr, prucha, hossa, hollweg, malik, roszival, tyutin, girardi, mara and rachunek next season. which fills ALL 18 skater spots and leaves NO room open for any kids unless injuries happen...

so these kids have gotten a chance and proved their value but the organization is gonna do what it always does and bury the kids right back in hartford.

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03-23-2007, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by NYR469 View Post
i agree completely with that assessment that our depth is being shown in a positive way and we are starting to see how good some of the kids can be...but that doesn't change the fact that those kids only got a chance because of injuries...

and also doesn't change the fact that all indication is that the rangers plan to bring back jagr, straka, nylander, shanahan, avery, cullen, betts, ortmeyer, orr, prucha, hossa, hollweg, malik, roszival, tyutin, girardi, mara and rachunek next season. which fills ALL 18 skater spots and leaves NO room open for any kids unless injuries happen...

so these kids have gotten a chance and proved their value but the organization is gonna do what it always does and bury the kids right back in hartford.
So, Dubinsky should have been called up earlier even though he was a non-factor in Hartford for awhile? And you would have called up Girardi during the first third of the season? And Immo and Dawes should have been called up when they were stinking up the joint in Hartford? While I agree that these kids(especially Callahan) probably would not have been called up without injuries, ,this was aslo the time where most of the kids had finally worked themselves up to the point that they were ready to contribute consistently..A good confluence..

As for next year, glad to see you already have the future totally pegged..Me, I'll ait to see what happens..We finally have the kids ready to move players out but soem of these players are still good enough to keep the kids at bay...A good problem to have and it will be up to the GM to make it work through trades and roster moves..but I;ll wait to see if they mess it up (which they didn't this year) instead of assuming they will...

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03-23-2007, 01:23 PM
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lets face it... you can really only tell apart the better players from the rest by picking them say in the first 3 rounds. anything past the 3rd or 4th rounds are projects, otherwise they would have been picked earlier. tough!

here are the rangers picks rounds 1 to 3 from 1996 to 2005:
(Overall pick number preeceding name)

1996: 22 Jeff Brown, 48 Daniel Goneau, 76 Dmitry Subbotin
1997: 19 Stefan Cherneski, 46 Wes Jarvis, 73 Burke Henry
1998: 7 Manny Malhotra, 40 Randy Copley, 66 Jason Labarbera
1999: 4 Pavel Brendl, 9 Jamie Lundmark, 59 David Inman
2000: 64 Filip Novak, 95 Dominic Moore
2001: 10 Dan Blackburn, 40 Fedor Tyutin, 79 Garth Murray
2002: 33 Lee Falardeau, 81 Marcus Jonasen
2003: 12 Hugh Jessiman, 50 Ivan Baranka, 75 Kenny Roche
2004: 6 Al Montoya, 19 Lauri Korpikoski, 36 Darin Olver
2005: 12 Marc Staal, 40 Michael Sauer, 56 Marc-Andre Cliche

Dan Blackburn and Stefan Cherneski are exempt due to career-ending injuries

Lets see... hmm... top prospects: M. Staal, A. Montoya, I. Baranka... only ONE top 3 Rangers pick (F. Tyutin) is currently on the roster. Congratulations!!!

yeah... kudos to the scouts, i think they should all get a heavy raise for their outstanding work

ONE EXEMPTION: CHRISTER ROCKSTROM!!! The only light at the end of the Rangers scouting tunnel.

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03-23-2007, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Osminator View Post
i doubt it any of the 3 would have seen ranger ice time if not for the many many injuries... lets face it... this is the rangers..
Belive it or not, we haven't been hit hard by injurs at all this season, its just that everyone came at the same time. We have been pretty healty.

A team will never be healty in the NHL. If we enter the season with 18 veterans, atleast 2 kids will play a ton, and another 3-4 will get their feets wet.

Montreal one season missed almost 1000 man-games, ie more then 12 players missing the entire season.

If we weren't prepaired to give the kids a chance, Giroux and co would have been kept around.

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03-23-2007, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NYR469 View Post
i agree completely with that assessment that our depth is being shown in a positive way and we are starting to see how good some of the kids can be...but that doesn't change the fact that those kids only got a chance because of injuries...

and also doesn't change the fact that all indication is that the rangers plan to bring back jagr, straka, nylander, shanahan, avery, cullen, betts, ortmeyer, orr, prucha, hossa, hollweg, malik, roszival, tyutin, girardi, mara and rachunek next season. which fills ALL 18 skater spots and leaves NO room open for any kids unless injuries happen...

so these kids have gotten a chance and proved their value but the organization is gonna do what it always does and bury the kids right back in hartford.
I love how Prucha, Girardi, Tyutin, and Hollweg are grizzled vets now.

there will probably be 1 open forward spot and 1 open defense spot next season. to some I'm sure it seems ridiculous that Jagr isn't getting replaced by Dawes etc., but it seems fine to me.

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03-23-2007, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NYR469 View Post
i agree completely with that assessment that our depth is being shown in a positive way and we are starting to see how good some of the kids can be...but that doesn't change the fact that those kids only got a chance because of injuries...

and also doesn't change the fact that all indication is that the rangers plan to bring back jagr, straka, nylander, shanahan, avery, cullen, betts, ortmeyer, orr, prucha, hossa, hollweg, malik, roszival, tyutin, girardi, mara and rachunek next season. which fills ALL 18 skater spots and leaves NO room open for any kids unless injuries happen...

so these kids have gotten a chance and proved their value but the organization is gonna do what it always does and bury the kids right back in hartford.

When is an opening night roster static throughout the course of a year? Did we know that Girardi would eventually push both Kaspar and Ozolinsh out of NY? That Ward/Cliche would bring back Avery? That we'd get a player like Mara for Ward? What if Dubinsky spend half a year in Hartford, and ends up, through either injuries or incompetence, becoming one of the top three centers next year? Would you say Callahan may have already grabbed a spot on next year's team? There are just too many unknowns to get upset about next season already.

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03-23-2007, 02:26 PM
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There are just too many unknowns to get upset about next season already.
How about finishing this season-whenever that is-before the complaints coming in about the composition of the 2007-08 roster?

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03-23-2007, 08:24 PM
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How about finishing this season-whenever that is-before the complaints coming in about the composition of the 2007-08 roster?

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03-23-2007, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Osminator View Post
lets face it... you can really only tell apart the better players from the rest by picking them say in the first 3 rounds. anything past the 3rd or 4th rounds are projects, otherwise they would have been picked earlier. tough!

here are the rangers picks rounds 1 to 3 from 1996 to 2005:
(Overall pick number preeceding name)

1996: 22 Jeff Brown, 48 Daniel Goneau, 76 Dmitry Subbotin
1997: 19 Stefan Cherneski, 46 Wes Jarvis, 73 Burke Henry
1998: 7 Manny Malhotra, 40 Randy Copley, 66 Jason Labarbera
1999: 4 Pavel Brendl, 9 Jamie Lundmark, 59 David Inman
2000: 64 Filip Novak, 95 Dominic Moore
2001: 10 Dan Blackburn, 40 Fedor Tyutin, 79 Garth Murray
2002: 33 Lee Falardeau, 81 Marcus Jonasen
2003: 12 Hugh Jessiman, 50 Ivan Baranka, 75 Kenny Roche
2004: 6 Al Montoya, 19 Lauri Korpikoski, 36 Darin Olver
2005: 12 Marc Staal, 40 Michael Sauer, 56 Marc-Andre Cliche

Dan Blackburn and Stefan Cherneski are exempt due to career-ending injuries

Lets see... hmm... top prospects: M. Staal, A. Montoya, I. Baranka... only ONE top 3 Rangers pick (F. Tyutin) is currently on the roster. Congratulations!!!

yeah... kudos to the scouts, i think they should all get a heavy raise for their outstanding work

ONE EXEMPTION: CHRISTER ROCKSTROM!!! The only light at the end of the Rangers scouting tunnel.
You're right - the Rangers' top-end drafting up until 2005 was pretty suspect to say the least. The Rangers made a good hire in August of 2005 when they brought in Tim Murray though; he's a good scout. He co-owns a racehorse with Pierre Dorion, who he brought over from Montreal. Both are former head scouts, and have identified some good young talent through the years. They've had some wrong calls as well, but even the most noted ones (like Conte) do that.

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03-23-2007, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Osminator View Post
lets face it... you can really only tell apart the better players from the rest by picking them say in the first 3 rounds. anything past the 3rd or 4th rounds are projects, otherwise they would have been picked earlier. tough!

here are the rangers picks rounds 1 to 3 from 1996 to 2005:
(Overall pick number preeceding name)

1996: 22 Jeff Brown, 48 Daniel Goneau, 76 Dmitry Subbotin
1997: 19 Stefan Cherneski, 46 Wes Jarvis, 73 Burke Henry
1998: 7 Manny Malhotra, 40 Randy Copley, 66 Jason Labarbera
1999: 4 Pavel Brendl, 9 Jamie Lundmark, 59 David Inman
2000: 64 Filip Novak, 95 Dominic Moore
2001: 10 Dan Blackburn, 40 Fedor Tyutin, 79 Garth Murray
2002: 33 Lee Falardeau, 81 Marcus Jonasen
2003: 12 Hugh Jessiman, 50 Ivan Baranka, 75 Kenny Roche
2004: 6 Al Montoya, 19 Lauri Korpikoski, 36 Darin Olver
2005: 12 Marc Staal, 40 Michael Sauer, 56 Marc-Andre Cliche

Dan Blackburn and Stefan Cherneski are exempt due to career-ending injuries

Lets see... hmm... top prospects: M. Staal, A. Montoya, I. Baranka... only ONE top 3 Rangers pick (F. Tyutin) is currently on the roster. Congratulations!!!

yeah... kudos to the scouts, i think they should all get a heavy raise for their outstanding work

ONE EXEMPTION: CHRISTER ROCKSTROM!!! The only light at the end of the Rangers scouting tunnel.
I think one thing you fail to see when you just look at these names and years is that there was a definite change in regards to how we draft and develope players in 2004. Don Maloney and Gordie Clarke (great rep for finding youth) were put in charge of the draft and player development. Outstanding talent evaluator Tim Murray was added.

Outstanding teaching coaches Benoit Allaire, Mike Pelino and Perry Pearn were hired. Jim Schoenfeld (2003) an extremely experienced coach was put in change of the Rangers farm team. The Rangers created a development camp for their prospects so each one could be given knowledge on what it takes to succeed.

It's been three years since 2004, just enough time for the players drafted that year to have two years in Juniors/Europe and ONE YEAR in the AHL. This organization has made tremendous strides in bringing along young talent. As far as young players not getting a chance, simply they are not done developing. It takes time.

The problem is that some people are too impatient or don't understand that players are better served learning in the AHL rather that playing in a pressure packed playoff race where one mistake could ruin a player.

You want to put a player in a position that he can succeed. That's why you have veterans on a team. Some of the Hartford players this year have looked OK with the Rangers, Callahan is the only one who dominated the lower level AHL and really shown that he belongs in the NHL NOW.

The Callahan model is the type Ranger brass wants to see from Rangers prospects. Dominate the AHL, then come up to the NHL and make an impact nightly.

We have some that will follow that path but again, these guys are still very young. Give them another year or two in the AHL.

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03-25-2007, 04:07 PM
  #24
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Darth, don't waste your fingers typing out the facts. Its all because of the hockey fairy. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows that you completely overhaul and revamp a deteriorated organization overnight. It makes no difference that Gord Clark and Murray were under contract, that moron Sather should have stolen them earlier. Who cares if we would have been charged with tampering. You just snap your fingers and do it. If Dorothy could do it in Kansas by just clicking her shoes together, Slats should have been able to it NY by a flick of his cigar.

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03-25-2007, 05:11 PM
  #25
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You conviniently forget to mention all the other players in the later rounds, as well as the undrafted ones, that have helped the Rangers. Guys like Hollweg, Ortmeyer, Pock, Callahan, Lundqvist, Girardi, Prucha, etc. Some of which have skill and some of which are just hockey players who grind and help you win. I remember the Lindros Rangers, the Valeri Kamensky and Vladimir Malakov Rangers who completely lacked that aspect of the team and got consistently destroyed by teams that did. And the thing is, most of the Rangers younglings are still incubating, wait until you see the pouring of Wolfpack players into the Rangers in the next couple of years. In fact, I think we'll have quite a few and may have to lose some to acquire other assets.

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