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Is Shea Weber just wasting his career/talent in Nashville?

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06-08-2014, 12:29 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by The Reg Season SC View Post
Nashville makes Weber look good. If he wants to win a cup, he may be wasting his career but like I said - Nashville makes him look better than he would if he was playing on say... LA or Chicago.
I found someone that didn't watch him play at Vancouver or Sochi, guys.

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06-08-2014, 12:31 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by dougie1107 View Post
I found someone that didn't watch him play at Vancouver or Sochi, guys.
OK - put him on a team of the best players in the world, or a super defensive system and he looks great. Shocking. I am shocked he'd look good in those 2 scenarios.

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06-08-2014, 12:34 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by The Reg Season SC View Post
OK - put him on a team of the best players in the world, or a super defensive system and he looks great. Shocking. I am shocked he'd look good in those 2 scenarios.
You were saying he wouldn't look as good if he was on a better team. I showed you two instances in which he looked better on a better team. What exactly is it you are trying to say?

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06-08-2014, 12:34 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by The Reg Season SC View Post
OK - put him on a team of the best players in the world, or a super defensive system and he looks great. Shocking. I am shocked he'd look good in those 2 scenarios.
I don't understand what you're trying to achieve here. You're faulting a world class player for playing like a world class player with other world class players? Shea Weber would still be a world class defenseman on the Oilers, Islanders, Panthers, Jamaican National team, etc.

In this thread:

Shea Weber is too good to be playing for a terrible team like Nashville.

Shea Weber would not be as good if he were playing on a talented team.


Sometimes I really hate these boards.

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06-08-2014, 12:35 PM
  #230
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No. Most fans are intelligent enough to separate team accomplishments from individual accomplishments.

Even if Nashville somehow never becomes competitive, I doubt he'd be sad if he had a Ray Bourque level career.

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06-08-2014, 01:26 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by PredaDORES View Post
I don't understand what you're trying to achieve here. You're faulting a world class player for playing like a world class player with other world class players? Shea Weber would still be a world class defenseman on the Oilers, Islanders, Panthers, Jamaican National team, etc.

In this thread:

Shea Weber is too good to be playing for a terrible team like Nashville.

Shea Weber would not be as good if he were playing on a talented team.


Sometimes I really hate these boards.
Jason Garrison could have outscored Weber in those Olympics easily if he was given the PP time. A big shot on the PP isn't super special. Weber isn't bad or average but he isn't nearly as good as people say and think. A star but not a superstar.

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06-08-2014, 02:11 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by The Reg Season SC View Post
Jason Garrison could have outscored Weber in those Olympics easily if he was given the PP time. A big shot on the PP isn't super special. Weber isn't bad or average but he isn't nearly as good as people say and think. A star but not a superstar.
A big shot isn't special? Here is how Weber finished in goals scored amongst defenseman in every FULL season he has played.

1st - 23 goals
5th - 9 goals (lockout year)
1st - 19 goals
4th - 16 goals
4th - 16 goals
2nd - 23 goals
5th - 17 goals

A defenseman scoring 23 goals is ****ing impressive as hell. You're making a fool of yourself by comparing Shea Weber to Jason Garrison.

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06-08-2014, 02:13 PM
  #233
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just wait until u see what laviolette does with them, they will make the scf finals at least once in his time there

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06-08-2014, 03:00 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reg Season SC View Post
Nashville makes Weber look good. If he wants to win a cup, he may be wasting his career but like I said - Nashville makes him look better than he would if he was playing on say... LA or Chicago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reg Season SC View Post
OK - put him on a team of the best players in the world, or a super defensive system and he looks great. Shocking. I am shocked he'd look good in those 2 scenarios.
So, playing on a bad/average/good (Nashville over the past few years) team makes him look like he's one of the best D-men in the world, and playing on a great team makes him look like he's one of the best D-men in the world.

But putting him on LA or Chicago would expose him?

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06-08-2014, 03:04 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
So, playing on a bad/average/good (Nashville over the past few years) team makes him look like he's one of the best D-men in the world, and playing on a great team makes him look like he's one of the best D-men in the world.

But putting him on LA or Chicago would expose him?
Nashville's system lets Weber thrive. The Olympics is a short tournament where systems aren't exactly the strongest and on top of that Weber's offensive prowess in that tournament could have basically been provided by a Garrison or anyone with a big shot from the point.

You throw Drew Doughty on Nashville, he's still fine. You throw Keith on Nashville, he's still fine.

You throw Weber on either of those teams? It's a downgrade from Doughty/Keith.

So in terms of points, awards, etc... Weber isn't missing out on anything. Really he only might miss out on a Stanley Cup - but he wouldn't be alone in that respect.

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06-08-2014, 03:09 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by The Reg Season SC View Post
Nashville's system lets Weber thrive. The Olympics is a short tournament where systems aren't exactly the strongest and on top of that Weber's offensive prowess in that tournament could have basically been provided by a Garrison or anyone with a big shot from the point.

You throw Drew Doughty on Nashville, he's still fine. You throw Keith on Nashville, he's still fine.

You throw Weber on either of those teams? It's a downgrade from Doughty/Keith.
...

Why?

Because LA is at least as good defensively as Nashville, while adding a hell of a lot of firepower on the offense? Because, if need be, he wouldn't even have to go up against top competition in Chicago? Yeah, that sounds like a hassle, I'm not sure he could handle that...

You can't just say that he would do poorly on those teams without adding something to support your argument. Weber has never done poorly anywhere, but still you're saying that if he left Nashville, he would do poorly. Why?

He wouldn't get worse defensively. He sure wouldn't lose that cannon of a shot. The only things that would be different would that he would have more help defensively and offensively.

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06-08-2014, 03:11 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
...

Why?

Because LA is at least as good defensively as Nashville, while adding a hell of a lot of firepower on the offense? Because, if need be, he wouldn't even have to go up against top competition in Chicago? Yeah, that sounds like a hassle, I'm not sure he could handle that...

You can't just say that he would do poorly on those teams without adding something to support your argument. Weber has never done poorly anywhere, but still you're saying that if he left Nashville, he would do poorly. Why?

He wouldn't get worse defensively.
He sure wouldn't lose that cannon of a shot. The only things that would be different would that he would have more help defensively and offensively.
He'd get worse defensively and not only that - worse offensively as well.

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06-08-2014, 03:14 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reg Season SC View Post
Nashville makes Weber look good. If he wants to win a cup, he may be wasting his career but like I said - Nashville makes him look better than he would if he was playing on say... LA or Chicago.
Playing exceptionally well on a couple of mediocre-to-bad teams makes a guy look better than he would if he played exceptionally well on a better team? And you prove this how?

He has remained remarkably consistent through out his career, on good, bad and average teams. The argument that his stats and overall play would diminish because he's not relied upon as much doesn't hold up.

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06-08-2014, 03:16 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
So, playing on a bad/average/good (Nashville over the past few years) team makes him look like he's one of the best D-men in the world, and playing on a great team makes him look like he's one of the best D-men in the world.

But putting him on LA or Chicago would expose him?


Didn't see this until after I posted. Well said

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06-08-2014, 03:17 PM
  #240
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Playing exceptionally well on a couple of mediocre-to-bad teams makes a guy look better than he would if he played exceptionally well on a better team? And you prove this how?

He has remained remarkably consistent through out his career, on good, bad and average teams. The argument that his stats and overall play would diminish because he's not relied upon as much doesn't hold up.
Good and bad Nashville teams. Even in bad years, they have their system and it's definitely no Kings or Blackhawks type of system. Basically Nashville's system is designed in such a way that their slow-moving, slow-thinking defensemen can shine.

Ryan Ellis is another example of this and their scouts identifying what works and what doesn't. Ryan Ellis - great on an international playing field, OK in Nashville. He'd be a -99 on the LAK if he played 15 minutes a night.

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06-08-2014, 03:18 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by The Reg Season SC View Post
He'd get worse defensively and not only that - worse offensively as well.
See, now you're doing it again. You're not doing anything to support your argument. You're just saying that it would happen.

Why would he get worse defensively and offensively? Because he suddenly has more support? Because someone else could score as well?

Why would he get worse defensively?

Why would he get worse offensively?

Now, provide some solid reasoning. Don't just say that he would.

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06-08-2014, 03:18 PM
  #242
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Slow moving, slow thinking?

OK yeah, you're just grasping at straws now. I'll stop.

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06-08-2014, 03:20 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
See, now you're doing it again. You're not doing anything to support your argument. You're just saying that it would happen.

Why would he get worse defensively and offensively? Because he suddenly has more support? Because someone else could score as well?

Why would he get worse defensively?

Why would he get worse offensively?

Now, provide some solid reasoning. Don't just say that he would.
You two seem to just prefer to ignore it.

The Nashville system runs everything through their defense. There's a reason everyone talked about Nashville's defense for years and the Weber/Suter combination.

When everything runs through your defensive system - it's no surprise you'd be low scoring but your defense would look good.

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06-08-2014, 03:24 PM
  #244
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The Nashville system has changed multiple times over the past handful of seasons to match the personnel Trotz has had. The "Nashville system" is actually a series of systems that apparently didn't work so well considering Trotz is now in another city. Again, grasping at straws, and it isn't proving anything.

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06-08-2014, 03:27 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by The Reg Season SC View Post
You two seem to just prefer to ignore it.

The Nashville system runs everything through their defense. There's a reason everyone talked about Nashville's defense for years and the Weber/Suter combination.

When everything runs through your defensive system - it's no surprise you'd be low scoring but your defense would look good.
Can you come up with an example of a defenseman on the Preds who looked good on the Preds and then fell off the map after joining another team?

Here, I'll even provide some examples.

Ryan Suter
Kevin Klein
Dan Hamhuis
Marek Zidlicky
Kimmo Timonen

Doesn't seem to fit in on those guys. Oh well, I'm sure you can come up with several examples.

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06-08-2014, 03:38 PM
  #246
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Re : "Is Shea Weber just wasting his career/talent in Nashville?"

Of course.

Sadly, no top end hockey player ever wants to play in Canada - minus David Clarkson and look how that turned out.

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06-08-2014, 03:43 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
Can you come up with an example of a defenseman on the Preds who looked good on the Preds and then fell off the map after joining another team?

Here, I'll even provide some examples.

Ryan Suter
Kevin Klein
Dan Hamhuis
Marek Zidlicky
Kimmo Timonen

Doesn't seem to fit in on those guys. Oh well, I'm sure you can come up with several examples.
And all of those guys excluding Suter (but in a shortened season) had their career year in points with the Nashville Predators. You have found me 4 people who fit the mould and 1 exception.

Like I said, I doubt Weber would fill in well for a Doughty, a Keith, a Subban, a Karlsson or even a McDonagh. Not that he would be bad just that like I said - he benefited from Nashville more than they benefited from him.

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06-08-2014, 03:46 PM
  #248
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Even though the idea that Nashville has employed the same exact system at least since Weber first established himself as a top pairing guy is ridiculous, it does provide some nice cover. One need not explain Weber's consistent production and defensive play over the last five or six seasons while playing in a system that continually changed, even sometimes ::gasp:: during a game, if there has only been one system the entire time.

Come on with this junk. You're entitled to your opinion, but you obviously can't prove anything. Stating an opinion as a fact does not make it one.

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06-08-2014, 03:47 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Even though the idea that Nashville has employed the same exact system at least since Weber first established himself as a top pairing guy is ridiculous, it does provide some nice cover. One need not explain Weber's consistent production and defensive play over the last five or six seasons while playing in a system that continually changed, even sometimes ::gasp:: during a game, if there has only been one system the entire time.

Come on with this junk. You're entitled to your opinion, but you obviously can't prove anything. Stating an opinion as a fact does not make it one.
Obviously I could be wrong, I don't think I am though. Nashville has a never ending ability to produce good defensemen.

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06-08-2014, 03:50 PM
  #250
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That still does not reinforce much of anything you've said. Nashville has a never ending ability to produce good defensemen... who what? Who will look noticeably worse on any other team? And what does this have to do with whether or not he's wasting his talents in Nashville anyway? I guess if the reply is "he'd play worse anywhere else" then the answer to one of the posed questions is "no."

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