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Player Hurt The Most By 2004-05 Lockout?

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Old
06-11-2014, 12:50 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
Brett Hull is up there I would say. As was stated already above, he was still very capable in '03-'04 (81-25-43-68). With that year away, he was just done when he came back. Or tried to come back. Sad way to say goodbye.

Mike Modano is an interesting case. Horrible '03-'04 season (76-14-30-44 -21) with off-ice issues consuming him big time. Nice bounce back year in '05-'06 (78-27-50-77 +23).

What would his '04-'05 have looked like? Another 75-85 point season? Or did that year off allow him to walk away and come back the way he did?
Next to McCabe he was probably the player that stuck his foot in his mouth the most during the lockout.

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Old
06-11-2014, 05:22 AM
  #27
Mulletman
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My pick is Olli Jokinen. OJ would have over 350 goals and 800 points right now if it wasn't for the 04-05 lockout. That would be pretty nice for a guy that many consider to be one of the worst players in the League...

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06-11-2014, 05:59 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Mulletman View Post
My pick is Olli Jokinen. OJ would have over 350 goals and 800 points right now if it wasn't for the 04-05 lockout. That would be pretty nice for a guy that many consider to be one of the worst players in the League...
Who considers O. Jokinen to be the worst player in the league? I have literally never read that here.

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Old
06-11-2014, 06:43 AM
  #29
Ivanko
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I think Elias, as was mentioned. Not only he missed a season in his prime, but got sick playing in Russia and missed a large part of another season.

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06-11-2014, 11:31 PM
  #30
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I think it's Kovalchuk. If he had played with Heatley/Hossa in 04-05, he probably has enough to lead the league in scoring. Ovechkin probably doesn't have a monster season in 04-05 yet so by 2005, Kovalchuk would have had two monster seasons and Ovechkin zero. Add the fact that Kovalchuk doesn't begin the 05-06 season with a contract dispute and Kovalchuk probably outplays Ovechkin in 05-06 as well. It would have been an uphill climb for Ovechkin to be the best Russian player in the world and Kovalchuk probably gets more recognition as the best Russian player which may have led to more endorsements, etc.

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06-12-2014, 12:08 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Sticks and Pucks View Post
I think it's Kovalchuk. If he had played with Heatley/Hossa in 04-05, he probably has enough to lead the league in scoring. Ovechkin probably doesn't have a monster season in 04-05 yet so by 2005, Kovalchuk would have had two monster seasons and Ovechkin zero. Add the fact that Kovalchuk doesn't begin the 05-06 season with a contract dispute and Kovalchuk probably outplays Ovechkin in 05-06 as well. It would have been an uphill climb for Ovechkin to be the best Russian player in the world and Kovalchuk probably gets more recognition as the best Russian player which may have led to more endorsements, etc.
That's pushing it. Ovechkin was 3rd in scoring in his rookie year. The same year Kovy was 8th. From the get go, it was pretty clear that Ovechkin was better than Kovalchuk.

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Old
06-12-2014, 01:37 AM
  #32
Loto68
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I think the problem with this discussion, is that a lot of these guys broke out in a big way after the lockout because of the more open style of play that was encouraged by actually calling obstruction penalties.

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06-12-2014, 10:58 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Loto68 View Post
I think the problem with this discussion, is that a lot of these guys broke out in a big way after the lockout because of the more open style of play that was encouraged by actually calling obstruction penalties.
In the OP I actually mentioned that the same post lockout rules would apply and that scoring would be similar to that of the 05-06 season.

A few other players I looked at, this season impacted their career numbers but not their legacies.

Mats Sundin: 31 goals and 75 points in 03-04, 31 goals and 78 points in 05-06. Finished his career as a PPG player and could jeopardize that with this season, but retires with 1349 points so he would make a run at 1400 with this season. 600 goals may be a longshot but 800 assists would have happened.

Joe Sakic: 30+ goals and 87 points in both 03-04 and 05-06 then 100 points in 06-07. Safe to add another PPG type season to his career, which would take him to 1700 points if healthy. Maybe a chance at another Cup although Roy was gone by then.

Nick Lidstrom: Curiously only had 38 points in 03-04, but then 80, 62 and 70 in the three years following the lockout. With his longevity and conditioning I think he would still play as long as he did. An 04-05 would give him a shot at 1200 points (retired with 1142) and potentially another Norris considering he won 6 of 7 during this time period.

Rick Nash: 41 goals as a 19 year old in 03-04 to tie for the league lead and then 31 goals in 54 games in 05-06. Still very young but proved himself the previous season and probably scores another 30+ that year.


Last edited by Randomtask68: 06-12-2014 at 11:19 AM.
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Old
06-12-2014, 05:04 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by goawaygary View Post
One guy who got really hurt by this is Elias. Misses a season at 28, and on top of that gets Hepatitis while in Russia and misses a chunk of the big scoring 05-06 season. The lockout robbed him of 120 games
Yep, Elias is my pick.

What makes it worse is that Elias was a top-10 forward in the league at the time. He finished sixth in scoring in 2003-04 (and should've been a second-team all-star). Then he finished 12th in points-per-game in 2005-06 despite missing half a season with hepatitis.

Were it not for the lockout, Elias could very conceivably have had two more top-10 finishes under his belt and be a lock for the Hall of Fame. As it is, he'll almost certainly fall short.

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06-12-2014, 07:39 PM
  #35
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Just out of curiousity. What is it with people thinking Ottawa was robbed of a Cup in 2005? They were arguably the favourites in 2003 and going into the 2003-'04 season too. They had great years from 2005-'07. No Cup. After that they fell off the map. Traditionally Ottawa choked, so why would 2005 be any different?

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06-12-2014, 09:17 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Just out of curiousity. What is it with people thinking Ottawa was robbed of a Cup in 2005? They were arguably the favourites in 2003 and going into the 2003-'04 season too. They had great years from 2005-'07. No Cup. After that they fell off the map. Traditionally Ottawa choked, so why would 2005 be any different?
Because they had some guy named Hasek

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06-12-2014, 09:17 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Just out of curiousity. What is it with people thinking Ottawa was robbed of a Cup in 2005? They were arguably the favourites in 2003 and going into the 2003-'04 season too. They had great years from 2005-'07. No Cup. After that they fell off the map. Traditionally Ottawa choked, so why would 2005 be any different?
Well, the more opportunities you have the more chances you have of finally succeeding. Too often we attribute winning to certain ideals and narratives of grit, determination, rising above, clutchness, etc, and downplay luck and general variance. They definitely had a decent chance in '06 and '07 if they had the breaks, and a healthy Hasek could have gone a long way in '06 and potentially '05.

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Old
06-12-2014, 09:27 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomtask68 View Post
In the OP I actually mentioned that the same post lockout rules would apply and that scoring would be similar to that of the 05-06 season.

A few other players I looked at, this season impacted their career numbers but not their legacies.

Mats Sundin: 31 goals and 75 points in 03-04, 31 goals and 78 points in 05-06. Finished his career as a PPG player and could jeopardize that with this season, but retires with 1349 points so he would make a run at 1400 with this season. 600 goals may be a longshot but 800 assists would have happened.

Joe Sakic: 30+ goals and 87 points in both 03-04 and 05-06 then 100 points in 06-07. Safe to add another PPG type season to his career, which would take him to 1700 points if healthy. Maybe a chance at another Cup although Roy was gone by then.

Nick Lidstrom: Curiously only had 38 points in 03-04, but then 80, 62 and 70 in the three years following the lockout. With his longevity and conditioning I think he would still play as long as he did. An 04-05 would give him a shot at 1200 points (retired with 1142) and potentially another Norris considering he won 6 of 7 during this time period.

Rick Nash: 41 goals as a 19 year old in 03-04 to tie for the league lead and then 31 goals in 54 games in 05-06. Still very young but proved himself the previous season and probably scores another 30+ that year.
I didn't really consider Lidstrom because his legacy is already so cemented, but it would have given him a chance at an 8th Norris to tie Orr, and possibly a Hart Trophy as well. I always considered '04 Lidstrom's best chance to win the Hart if he had a typical Lidstrom year. His team was in transition, so he was clearly the best player and leader and the forward group was one of the worst of all time IMO. He was up against big years from Thornton and Jagr in '06, but who knows how they would have done in '05, and there wasn't really any dominating forwards at that time other than Forsberg who had trouble staying healthy.

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Old
06-12-2014, 09:32 PM
  #39
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Brian Leetch, after being dealt to the Leafs near the deadline in 04 he put up 15 points in 15 games and was a +11, then he played very well for the Leafs in the playoffs averaging 28 minutes per game. Even though their were still teams interested in his services after the 06 season in Boston, he wasn't able to play at the level he wanted to after missing an entire season so he called it a career.

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Old
06-12-2014, 11:42 PM
  #40
Sticks and Pucks
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
That's pushing it. Ovechkin was 3rd in scoring in his rookie year. The same year Kovy was 8th. From the get go, it was pretty clear that Ovechkin was better than Kovalchuk.
Ovechkin's PPG was 1.30, Kovalchuk's was 1.26 and they both scored 52 goals so it's not like they were that far off. Ovechkin only got more recognition because he was a hot rookie that was outplaying Crosby. If 05-06 was Ovechkin's sophomore season I highly doubt there would be as much hype as there was that year. Ovechkin and Kovalchuk would have been seen as probably equals but because Kovalchuk would have already had a couple monster seasons, he probably still gets the benefit of the doubt as being the better Russian forward during that time around 2006. Obviously Ovechkin would eventually prove to be better but Kovalchuk would have gotten more recognition if the Ovechkin vs Crosby rivalry hadn't dominated the face of the NHL at the time. If not for the fact that they were both hot rookies in 05-06, the Ovechkin vs Crosby rivalry probably doesn't cement itself until 2009.

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Old
06-13-2014, 12:00 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sticks and Pucks View Post
Ovechkin's PPG was 1.30, Kovalchuk's was 1.26 and they both scored 52 goals so it's not like they were that far off. Ovechkin only got more recognition because he was a hot rookie that was outplaying Crosby. If 05-06 was Ovechkin's sophomore season I highly doubt there would be as much hype as there was that year. Ovechkin and Kovalchuk would have been seen as probably equals but because Kovalchuk would have already had a couple monster seasons, he probably still gets the benefit of the doubt as being the better Russian forward during that time around 2006. Obviously Ovechkin would eventually prove to be better but Kovalchuk would have gotten more recognition if the Ovechkin vs Crosby rivalry hadn't dominated the face of the NHL at the time. If not for the fact that they were both hot rookies in 05-06, the Ovechkin vs Crosby rivalry probably doesn't cement itself until 2009.
Yeah, good points.

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Old
06-14-2014, 05:55 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by goawaygary View Post

Brett Hull who was still solid in 03-04 just completely lost it over the course of that lockout. He came back and was absolutely finished
This is the name I always think of. Maybe he falls off that cliff a year earlier if there's no lockout, but I'm betting that he still remains a contributing player in 04/05 if there was a season.

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