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Lightning re-sign Ryan Callahan (6 years, $5.8m AAV, partial NTC)

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Old
06-14-2014, 10:13 AM
  #526
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Originally Posted by TBLightning24 View Post
If Malone gets bought out, I think the odds will be better in re-signing Callahan.
Can't see it. It's a question of value, not so much a question of available funds.

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06-14-2014, 10:46 AM
  #527
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There's absolutely no reason to buyout Brewer though.
A) Did you see what I wrote before the post you quoted?

B) There is, actually, some logic to doing to: saving money and creating a spot on the bottom pair if you think you can adequately replace him, especially to reward a younger guy with a greater role.

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He's a reliable vet who helps out our young kids on the bottom pair and plays heavy PK
Nobody is saying differently. The point is he's not essential.

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we lose him Hedman has to play more PK.
Hedman may play a wee bit more but you have Sustr and Gudas to help pick up most of that slack.

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I'd ordinary buyout Malone, it's a hit of 2.88 this season and 888k next which is nothing. We could then compliance buyout Purcell if they wanted and free up 6.1 in cap while relieving some of the logjam on the wing. Purcell still is useful and might have value around the league so not sure he'd be truly considered. It would allow us to resign Callahan and any top defender with no problem if we wanted.
Yes, there's a number of ways to free up additional cap space but buying out Purcell is significantly more expensive in real dollars. Also, may not want to dilute the depth up front, especially if the org. has plans on cashing a kid or two in to address the defense and, plus, Purcell has some trade value as well.

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06-14-2014, 10:52 AM
  #528
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Why do people want to buy out Brewer? That's a terrible idea. Not worth losing him and trying to find a replacement for a small amount of cap space. We can't be throwing out random buyouts..

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06-14-2014, 11:09 AM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan9175 View Post
Why do people want to buy out Brewer? That's a terrible idea. Not worth losing him and trying to find a replacement for a small amount of cap space. We can't be throwing out random buyouts..
Exactly. If Purcell can't be traded (which seems likely. I'm betting he holds next to zero value), the compliance buyout needs to be used on him. He can be replaced, and for a lot cheaper.

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06-14-2014, 11:23 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by nhljohnson View Post
A) Did you see what I wrote before the post you quoted?

B) There is, actually, some logic to doing to: saving money and creating a spot on the bottom pair if you think you can adequately replace him, especially to reward a younger guy with a greater role.



Nobody is saying differently. The point is he's not essential.


Hedman may play a wee bit more but you have Sustr and Gudas to help pick up most of that slack.



Yes, there's a number of ways to free up additional cap space but buying out Purcell is significantly more expensive in real dollars. Also, may not want to dilute the depth up front, especially if the org. has plans on cashing a kid or two in to address the defense and, plus, Purcell has some trade value as well.
Yes I did read what you wrote but ths quote I tagged you said it made some sense to buy him out when it makes no sense. We don't have any cap or money issues. Sustr can play bottom pair full time but Barberio can't and it's unsure if Koekkoek can, we need Brewer for next season. Gudas can't be relied on to play top 4 and PK, he wore down last season don't want that again. We need Hedman more at even strength and the PP then playing PK. No matter who we buyout it's going to cost a bit of real dollars, Malone would be the cheapest but we aren't a cheap organization anymore. Our forward depth is fairly strong and Purcell was looking at bottom 6 minutes only next year not a huge loss, if they have trades in place then it makes sense to hold onto him or trade him.

Buying out Brewer just makes none. We need some veteran presence on the teamand he wwould be our most experienced player, if he has another decent season I think we might bring him back as a 6/7 for cheap the following year.

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06-14-2014, 03:50 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Yes I did read what you wrote but ths quote I tagged you said it made some sense to buy him out when it makes no sense.
By denying any possibility of there being any possible logic in deciding to buy out Brewer, you've unnecessarily taken a definitive and extreme stance for, as best I can tell, the sake of being argumentative. Here's what I originally wrote in response to The Fear Boners

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Except Brewer was far more useful in his diminished role last season, has the same term (1 season) remaining, and it would be more costly in actual dollars to buy him out while returning less cap space to the club. There's a financial incentive there to choose Malone over Brewer, albeit not a particularly strong one.

Brewer's an overpaid bottom-pairing guy, I know, but the only way choosing to buy him out over Malone makes sense, IMO, is if the team is determined to reward an affordable internal option who's ready to assume a regular spot with those minutes. Namely, I'd guess, Mark Barberio. Or, I guess, to swap him out for, say, Dan Boyle.
My follow-up to this was merely me saying if you're going to buy out one, it makes just as much sense to buy out the other, assuming, again, the org. believes it can effectively replace Brewer with a more affordable option.

That's not me saying throw caution to the wind and piss money away to create a hole in the bottom-pair. I was saying I can understand the temptation if the team believes it has or can readily find somebody else step into his slot.

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We don't have any cap or money issues.
Didn't say they did. Buying out Brewer would not be a matter of necessity but the team choosing to allocate its resources more efficiently. When you accept that Eric Brewer, at age 35, almost surely won't figure into the team's plans beyond this next season and that he's being paid very generously for the role he's been reduced to, it doesn't seem so far-fetched to see him as fat to potentially be trimmed.

Please note that it doesn't necessarily follow that I think Brewer's a terrible player and provides next to no value to the team or that I'm arguing he should be bought out but that I envision and accept the circumstances that would lead to it happening.

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Sustr can play bottom pair full time but Barberio can't.
That's a mighty presumptuous claim to make about the guy who saw action in more games than the other guy who's supposedly capable. Look, you may very well be right about Barberio, but I couched my discussion of the team possibly buying out Brewer with the very particular condition that the team would either promote from within or find acquire a suitable replacement by other means.

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we need Brewer for next season.
I think you're using the word 'need' very loosely here. Again, I think he's serviceable and certainly not detrimental but essential? I'm not buying it.

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Gudas can't be relied on to play top 4 and PK, he wore down last season don't want that again.
I think, ideally, Gudas would be skating on the bottom-pair. However, depending on how things shake out this off-season, the Lightning may not have much of a choice but to return him back to top-four duty. If Tampa Bay can acquire a guy well-suited to play with Carle, I do think Gudas would be quite fine paired with Hedman.

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We need Hedman more at even strength and the PP then playing PK.
I didn't say to return him to his usage from seasons past.

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No matter who we buyout it's going to cost a bit of real dollars
Right. But while buying out Malone or Brewer are fairly inexpensive options, the bill for either or even both combined is a fraction of what it would cost to buy out Purcell. The only way I'd agree it would make more sense to buy out Purcell ahead of the other two is if the team truly believed it would not be able to find a taker for Purcell, in conjunction with a belief that he is unlikely to consistently slot in on a scoring line with the Lightning, for the remainder of his contract.

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We need some veteran presence on the team and he would be our most experienced player
Removing Brewer wouldn't necessarily preclude adding a veteran to the mix, especially on the back-end. That said, I think this past season is evidence that the Lightning holding onto vets, especially those whose best days are behind them, is anything but a prerequisite for success.

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if he has another decent season I think we might bring him back as a 6/7 for cheap the following year.
If the Lightning elect not to buy him out, I really think you'd do best to steel yourself for the team opting to go Brewer-less beyond this upcoming season.

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06-14-2014, 04:30 PM
  #532
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There's a possibility he is bought out but I think it's extremely slim that happens so I'm taking a stance that its not likely. Yes he's overpaid in terms of what a bottom pair player makes but his value to the team IMO makes his contract reasonable. We paid Salo the same last season and Brewer was the much better player. Why can't he figure into our plans after this season? He hasn't turned into crap, he's a reliable player and a veteran presence. A short team deal for a much smaller salary isn't far fetched. We signed 38 year old Salo and some want a 38 year old Boyle.

Barberio might have played more games but didn't look the better player. He needs a strong defensive partner which Brewer is so that's why I say we need him to pair with Barberio. Sustr is much more defensive reliable that he would be ok with another partner besides Brewer but I don't think him and Barberio are ready to play together yet. I agree it would be best for Gudas to play bottom pair minutes with occasional top 4 to improve his consistency but not sure that'll be an option.

It would cost a 5.25million more to buyout Purcell then Brewer. The thing with Purcell is we have internal options to fill his spot so we wouldn't need to bring anybody in. We don't have a reliable presence to replace Brewer so we'd have to sign a FA for his spot which would make the salary savings not much anymore. I'd rather trade Purcell, buyout Malone and keep Brewer. We'll see how SY handles the last buyout and the Purcell situation.

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06-14-2014, 07:21 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
We don't have a reliable presence to replace Brewer so we'd have to sign a FA for his spot which would make the salary savings not much anymore. I'd rather trade Purcell, buyout Malone and keep Brewer. We'll see how SY handles the last buyout and the Purcell situation.
Totally agree with this. In addition, SY should sign an UFA a defender or trade for one.

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06-14-2014, 08:12 PM
  #534
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I agree with Hosed. There's no need to buy out Brewer when he does his job well - this organization has no current cap problems so there's no urgency to throw over valuable players who are overpaid.

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06-14-2014, 08:47 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Steve Yzerman View Post
I agree with Hosed. There's no need to buy out Brewer when he does his job well - this organization has no current cap problems so there's no urgency to throw over valuable players who are overpaid.
That there's no need to buy Brewer out is an irrelevant point, though. I certainly didn't say it was a necessity and I'm pretty sure nobody else said it was, either. What's drawn this all out is HoseEmDown stating, unequivocally, was that there would be absolutely "no sense" to buying Brewer out. It doesn't take but a few neurons to fire to realize that's an extreme position that's ignoring very obvious potential benefits.

Now, I think it's fair to question whether the marginal benefits -- particularly at a time where, yes, creating cap room isn't an urgent issue -- outweigh the uncertainty surrounding how Brewer would be replaced but to say there's absolutely no perceivable logic why the team might go that route? That, in my opinion, is a bit bull-headed.

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06-14-2014, 09:37 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by nhljohnson View Post
That there's no need to buy Brewer out is an irrelevant point, though. I certainly didn't say it was a necessity and I'm pretty sure nobody else said it was, either. What's drawn this all out is HoseEmDown stating, unequivocally, was that there would be absolutely "no sense" to buying Brewer out. It doesn't take but a few neurons to fire to realize that's an extreme position that's ignoring very obvious potential benefits.

Now, I think it's fair to question whether the marginal benefits -- particularly at a time where, yes, creating cap room isn't an urgent issue -- outweigh the uncertainty surrounding how Brewer would be replaced but to say there's absolutely no perceivable logic why the team might go that route? That, in my opinion, is a bit bull-headed.
As opposed to taking a statement like "no sense" and drawing it out to its absolute limit?

Pretty sure Hose simply meant the negatives of buying out Brewer would outweigh the positives, which I think most people agree with.

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06-16-2014, 01:54 PM
  #537
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From Bob McKenzie @TSN:

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Pending UFA Ryan Callahan is still talking to TB about a new deal but no one will be surprised if he goes to UFA on July 1. #TSN


At this rate I'm starting to get worried.

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06-16-2014, 02:09 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by tidus37 View Post
From Bob McKenzie @TSN:

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Pending UFA Ryan Callahan is still talking to TB about a new deal but no one will be surprised if he goes to UFA on July 1. #TSN


At this rate I'm starting to get worried.
I'm not. He's just stating the obvious. And we all know how secretive SFY is.

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06-16-2014, 02:16 PM
  #539
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That's true, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best!

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06-16-2014, 02:36 PM
  #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tidus37 View Post
From Bob McKenzie @TSN:

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Pending UFA Ryan Callahan is still talking to TB about a new deal but no one will be surprised if he goes to UFA on July 1. #TSN


At this rate I'm starting to get worried.
Well he is still talking so that's good, but I think we all knew this would go past July 1st, does not mean Tampa has lost him whatsoever.

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06-16-2014, 02:36 PM
  #541
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I'll be shocked if he does sign in Tampa to be honest.

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06-16-2014, 03:12 PM
  #542
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He is going after money. Injury prone player wants more than 6 mil. per year. More and more I think he will sign anywhere else. Hope SFY will keep him, but for the right price, not overpayment.

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06-16-2014, 03:15 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Kusic View Post
He is going after money. Injury prone player wants more than 6 mil. per year. More and more I think he will sign anywhere else. Hope SFY will keep him, but for the right price, not overpayment.
Don't forget the tax situation.

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06-16-2014, 04:36 PM
  #544
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1.) I don't think Callahan will end up signing with the organization. Of course Yzerman wants to sign him, but I think he's smarter than signing him to a long term 6m contract. I think he could have gotten that money in New York as their captain, but I don't see why he'd get that kind of deal here. If he gets signed for less money, for maybe 1 or 2 years, I'm all about it. Anything more than that, let him go. There are other options.

2.) Brewer can stay. He should not be bought out, at all. Buyout Malone. If the organization can manage to sign Dan Boyle (which would be great) and maybe pick up another depth d-man in free agency (Brooks Orpik, Kyle Quincey, etc), Eric Brewer can play better as a bottom 6 guy. Leave Sustr in Syracuse for a little while. I like him, he's a big body and definitely has potential, but he didn't look great at all when he dressed this season. Let him develop more. No need to rush him onto the team at all, especially with so many options in free agency.

3.) Marty lost.

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06-16-2014, 04:52 PM
  #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObviTylerJohnson View Post
1.) I don't think Callahan will end up signing with the organization. Of course Yzerman wants to sign him, but I think he's smarter than signing him to a long term 6m contract. I think he could have gotten that money in New York as their captain, but I don't see why he'd get that kind of deal here. If he gets signed for less money, for maybe 1 or 2 years, I'm all about it. Anything more than that, let him go. There are other options.

2.) Brewer can stay. He should not be bought out, at all. Buyout Malone. If the organization can manage to sign Dan Boyle (which would be great) and maybe pick up another depth d-man in free agency (Brooks Orpik, Kyle Quincey, etc), Eric Brewer can play better as a bottom 6 guy. Leave Sustr in Syracuse for a little while. I like him, he's a big body and definitely has potential, but he didn't look great at all when he dressed this season. Let him develop more. No need to rush him onto the team at all, especially with so many options in free agency.

3.) Marty lost.

Welcome obvi

If we touch quincey with a ten foot pole I will ask for drug testing.

Disagree on 1-2 years that wont cut it for callahan.

Disagree on sustr he is ready for nhl.

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06-16-2014, 05:09 PM
  #546
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The ideal contract for Callahan and us is similar to Filppula. 5yrs - 25mil. ..in my opinion.

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06-16-2014, 05:11 PM
  #547
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Quote:
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The ideal contract for Callahan and us is similar to Filppula. 5yrs - 25mil. ..in my opinion.
im ok between carle and flipper deals so a little more cash for 5 years or the 5 for six.

All these guys are asking for 6 million up ufa's especially defenders meaning 3-4 guys are asking for six million?

So im ok with callahan getting that it seems to be the new trend. Couple years his contract wont seem bad as long as he plays well does his job stays moderately healthy.

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06-16-2014, 05:36 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by ObviTylerJohnson View Post
1.) I don't think Callahan will end up signing with the organization. Of course Yzerman wants to sign him, but I think he's smarter than signing him to a long term 6m contract. I think he could have gotten that money in New York as their captain, but I don't see why he'd get that kind of deal here. If he gets signed for less money, for maybe 1 or 2 years, I'm all about it. Anything more than that, let him go. There are other options.

2.) Brewer can stay. He should not be bought out, at all. Buyout Malone. If the organization can manage to sign Dan Boyle (which would be great) and maybe pick up another depth d-man in free agency (Brooks Orpik, Kyle Quincey, etc), Eric Brewer can play better as a bottom 6 guy. Leave Sustr in Syracuse for a little while. I like him, he's a big body and definitely has potential, but he didn't look great at all when he dressed this season. Let him develop more. No need to rush him onto the team at all, especially with so many options in free agency.

3.) Marty lost.
First off, welcome.

Cally walked away from 6 and 6, why we would he sign for only 2 years? Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but the guy gave up a lot to get a payday now. So Yzerman has to come up to 6 and 6, imo. The Tax situation will make it a pay day for him, because it will be like making 6.7 in NY. So both parties win here.

If he was not interested in staying or they were really far apart and had no chance to re-sign him, they would likely not be talking still with July 1st in 2 weeks. Just an example Vanek is going to FA, so no talks between his agent(same as Cally's) and Montreal, since he has no interest to stay in Montreal.

Also back before the trade deadline, Callahan had also tested the market with Glen Sather giving his agent permission to talk to other teams, and only one team came close to his offer, and that was Buffalo for around 6.5 million. That is when his price came down from 7 million to around 6 million.

Accoring to TSN his worth is around 5.5 million, so 5 million is underpaying for him.

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06-16-2014, 05:59 PM
  #549
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No. Ryan made a splash when he first got here but sort of tailed off. I liked what I saw and he obviously had an effect on some of the younger players who were inspired to play his style. Brown was one of those.
It will be interesting to see what SY does. SY didn't really target Ryan but we ended up with him because of the Marty thing. Ryan sort of showed his colors when he turned down a really fair offer by the Rangers.

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06-16-2014, 06:02 PM
  #550
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No. Ryan made a splash when he first got here but sort of tailed off. I liked what I saw and he obviously had an effect on some of the younger players who were inspired to play his style. Brown was one of those.
It will be interesting to see what SY does. SY didn't really target Ryan but we ended up with him because of the Marty thing. Ryan sort of showed his colors when he turned down a really fair offer by the Rangers.
It was not the money, it was the Job security though. Sather gave him no NTC/NMC options. That is something that sent him packing not the money.

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