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Prospect Thread XXVII

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Old
06-14-2014, 09:56 PM
  #851
Canucker
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Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
Horvat kinda looks like a young Ray Liotta.
HA....I was thinking that myself. I was gonna say he looked like he's a mobster's kid.

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06-14-2014, 10:04 PM
  #852
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Originally Posted by Stories Tales Lies View Post
Also the 3 people in the reflection of the jersey...


And LOL at how many people make decisions on players based on photos...

Forget stat scouting, face book scouting is the new advanced stats...
they r ghosts

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06-14-2014, 11:03 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Stories Tales Lies View Post
Also the 3 people in the reflection of the jersey...


And LOL at how many people make decisions on players based on photos...

Forget stat scouting, [b]face book scouting[b] is the new advanced stats...
Our scouting might improve.

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Old
06-14-2014, 11:06 PM
  #854
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lol at the guy in the background
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Kessel looks like my 50 year old uncle, it don't matter...
Case solved

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Old
06-15-2014, 01:41 AM
  #855
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Our scouting might improve.
Considering Nylander would be our pick... I'm inclined to agree

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Old
06-15-2014, 02:43 AM
  #856
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How the F did they put Johansen at 11??! o_O

No wonder the Canucks drafted like morons.

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Old
06-15-2014, 03:10 AM
  #857
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
How the F did they put Johansen at 11??! o_O

No wonder the Canucks drafted like morons.
I honestly believe that a couple of you guys who post here on HF could've done a significantly better job with our scouting over the last few years. Really, going at least as far back as the Kopitar incident... ugh.

To be clear, I'm not saying anyone on a random website will be better than the professionals... but a few posters here are absolutely on top of the ball with scouting. Whereas the scouting under Nonis was, as far as I can make out, a practical joke by a GM that thought he'd be fired after 1 season, while the president didn't catch on to the joke for another 4 years. And the scouting has clearly improved under Gillis, but not enough.

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06-15-2014, 03:14 AM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
I honestly believe that a couple of you guys who post here on HF could've done a significantly better job with our scouting over the last few years. Really, going at least as far back as the Kopitar incident... ugh.

To be clear, I'm not saying anyone on a random website will be better than the professionals... but a few posters here are absolutely on top of the ball with scouting. Whereas the scouting under Nonis was, as far as I can make out, a practical joke by a GM that thought he'd be fired after 1 season, while the president didn't catch on to the joke for another 4 years. And the scouting has clearly improved under Gillis, but not enough.
all you have to do is to make the obvious consensuses picks and you will do better than most people. it's these out of the box off the board picks that kills you. like the White/Mallets/Ellington/Not picking Kopitar/ that never seem to pan out for the Canucks.

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Old
06-15-2014, 03:28 AM
  #859
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Originally Posted by jigsaw99 View Post
all you have to do is to make the obvious consensuses picks and you will do better than most people. it's these out of the box off the board picks that kills you. like the White/Mallets/Ellington/Not picking Kopitar/ that never seem to pan out for the Canucks.
I mostly agree but Kopitar is the main big one depending on who's consensus.

Compare how the team has done since the Kopitar draft vs the consensus and it's not half bad.

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Old
06-15-2014, 04:23 AM
  #860
vanuck
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I mostly agree but Kopitar is the main big one depending on who's consensus.

Compare how the team has done since the Kopitar draft vs the consensus and it's not half bad.
Is there somewhere to look back on this? Doesn't Mackenzie only do such lists for, say, the top 60 players? Would be interesting to look at, yes.

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Old
06-15-2014, 04:38 AM
  #861
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Is there somewhere to look back on this? Doesn't Mackenzie only do such lists for, say, the top 60 players? Would be interesting to look at, yes.
Well, here's what I posted the last time we talked about it:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=103

Here's a comparison:

Canucks - Kesler, Schneider, Bourdon, Grabner, White, Hodgson, Schroeder, Jensen, Gaunce

ISS - ???, Graham, Koipitar, Vasyunov, Mayorov, Hodgson, Schroeder, Grimaldi, Gaune
TSN - Glazachev, Bolland, Kopitar, Sanguinetti, Petrecki, Hodgson, Schroeder, Saad, Gaunce
CSS - Fritsche, Bolland, Kopitar, Stewart, Perron, Myers, Schroeder, Rattie, Gaunce (Note, CSS only does NA and Intl. so I picked the NA or Intl. based on who was higher on TSN's list to try and make it fair)
Redline - A. Stewart, Green, Skille, Williams, Katic, Petrov, Schroeder, Khokhlachev, Finn

Based on this comparison, I'd probably rank the lists as follows:
1. CSS
2. TSN
3. Canucks
4. ISS (really depends on who they get in 2003...they didn't exist I don't think)
5. Redline

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Old
06-15-2014, 05:02 AM
  #862
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Well, here's what I posted the last time we talked about it:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=103

Here's a comparison:

Canucks - Kesler, Schneider, Bourdon, Grabner, White, Hodgson, Schroeder, Jensen, Gaunce

ISS - ???, Graham, Koipitar, Vasyunov, Mayorov, Hodgson, Schroeder, Grimaldi, Gaune
TSN - Glazachev, Bolland, Kopitar, Sanguinetti, Petrecki, Hodgson, Schroeder, Saad, Gaunce
CSS - Fritsche, Bolland, Kopitar, Stewart, Perron, Myers, Schroeder, Rattie, Gaunce (Note, CSS only does NA and Intl. so I picked the NA or Intl. based on who was higher on TSN's list to try and make it fair)
Redline - A. Stewart, Green, Skille, Williams, Katic, Petrov, Schroeder, Khokhlachev, Finn

Based on this comparison, I'd probably rank the lists as follows:
1. CSS
2. TSN
3. Canucks
4. ISS (really depends on who they get in 2003...they didn't exist I don't think)
5. Redline
Nice work. Indeed, TSN and CSS look good in that light. These lists only go up to about 30 players each?

I think it's time we started compiling a list of our own for HF Canucks and see how good the fan consensus for people here turns out. Though once it gets to maybe the 3rd round and beyond I think it would be difficult as most Canucks fans know less and less about the guys who are still on the board, which is what would make a comparison harder to do. That's the point I've been trying to make - this is where your pros, i.e the scouts, come in past a certain point.

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Old
06-15-2014, 02:10 PM
  #863
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How did the Canucks pick Skille on Redline's list? He was gone before their pick.

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Old
06-15-2014, 02:10 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by jigsaw99 View Post
all you have to do is to make the obvious consensuses picks and you will do better than most people. it's these out of the box off the board picks that kills you. like the White/Mallets/Ellington/Not picking Kopitar/ that never seem to pan out for the Canucks.
Kesler wasn't a consensus pick. He's the best player we've drafted in a decade.

The Canucks need to do a better job of trading down and acquiring assets along with picking there guy. There needs to be a system where if the guy you want is ranked 20 or a random number spots behind that placement a trade down situation needs to be initiated.

We end up with Schroeder on almost all the lists, so you can draft busts on a consensus as well.

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Old
06-15-2014, 02:43 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Kesler wasn't a consensus pick. He's the best player we've drafted in a decade.

The Canucks need to do a better job of trading down and acquiring assets along with picking there guy. There needs to be a system where if the guy you want is ranked 20 or a random number spots behind that placement a trade down situation needs to be initiated.

We end up with Schroeder on almost all the lists, so you can draft busts on a consensus as well.
Kesler was the best player we drafted in a decade for sure but it was the 2003 1st round pick. look that draft! you are bound to hit something in the top two rounds. Almost everything left with a star player that draft except for the NYR. The other concenses pick for us that draft instead of Kesler was Tamberelli, Richards, Perry.

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Old
06-15-2014, 03:00 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by jigsaw99 View Post
Kesler was the best player we drafted in a decade for sure but it was the 2003 1st round pick. look that draft! you are bound to hit something in the top two rounds. Almost everything left with a star player that draft except for the NYR. The other concenses pick for us that draft instead of Kesler was Tamberelli, Richards, Perry.
But that is hindsight bias.

Nobody knew kesler would develop as well as he has.

I just think the idea of taking the consensus guy is poor strategy.

I agree that player should be within a certain range or they need to trade down for their certain targets.

Like I said. You get Schroeder every time and sadly he barely looks like a replacement player at this point, 5 years after his draft.

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Old
06-15-2014, 03:19 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
We end up with Schroeder on almost all the lists, so you can draft busts on a consensus as well.
Of course, I don't anyone would argue otherwise. The question is whether you'd get more or less value out of the draft, not whether you eliminate busts.

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Old
06-15-2014, 08:58 PM
  #868
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Sounds like the Westerholm twins are stepping up to the SHL next season to play for Brynas.


And yes, I am aware we have no rights over either of the two.

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Old
06-15-2014, 11:13 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by Hansen 36 View Post
Sounds like the Westerholm twins are stepping up to the SHL next season to play for Brynas.


And yes, I am aware we have no rights over either of the two.
That leads me to believe the Pathrik pick was at the behest of Hammarstrom, who is one of main scouts for Brynas.

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Old
06-16-2014, 12:19 AM
  #870
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
How did the Canucks pick Skille on Redline's list? He was gone before their pick.
Really just a mistake looking at the lists...here's Redline's top 10 for 2005:
1. Sidney Crosby
2. Gilbert Brule
3. Benoit Pouliot
4. Jack Skille
5. Anze Kopitar
6. Guillaume Latendresse
7. Bobby Ryan
8. Ryan O'Marra
9. Marek Zagrapan
10.Alex Bourret

(per = http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...e-report_x.htm ...interesting to note that both his sleepers delivered which is pretty impressive - he also had Jannick Hansen as a riser and sleeper in 2004 - looking for more articles)

...so I guess we end up with Latendresse rather than Skille on the RLR list...doesn't really change the analysis too much.


Last edited by DJOpus: 06-16-2014 at 12:26 AM.
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06-16-2014, 12:31 AM
  #871
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Really just a mistake looking at the lists...here's Redline's top 10 for 2005:
1. Sidney Crosby
2. Gilbert Brule
3. Benoit Pouliot
4. Jack Skille
5. Anze Kopitar
6. Guillaume Latendresse
7. Bobby Ryan
8. Ryan O'Marra
9. Marek Zagrapan
10.Alex Bourret

(per = http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...e-report_x.htm ...interesting to note that both his sleepers delivered which is pretty impressive - he also had Jannick Hansen as a riser and sleeper in 2004 - looking for more articles)

...so I guess we end up with Latendresse rather than Skille on the RLR list...doesn't really change the analysis too much.
I may be reading this wrong but don't we get Kopitar?

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06-16-2014, 02:19 AM
  #872
DJOpus
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Originally Posted by Ausar View Post
I may be reading this wrong but don't we get Kopitar?
Yeah, you're completely right.

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Old
06-16-2014, 03:53 AM
  #873
vanuck
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Yeah, you're completely right.
Don't worry - passing on Kopitar has been so ingrained into our heads that I didn't even catch it at first as well.

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Old
06-16-2014, 06:54 PM
  #874
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Originally Posted by jigsaw99 View Post
Kesler was the best player we drafted in a decade for sure but it was the 2003 1st round pick. look that draft! you are bound to hit something in the top two rounds. Almost everything left with a star player that draft except for the NYR. The other concenses pick for us that draft instead of Kesler was Tamberelli, Richards, Perry.
Top options for us at 23 IIRC were Tambellini, Stewart, O'Sullivan, and Richards. Don't recall hearing much about Perry at the time but I guess he could have been an option too. Would have been easy to get a dud, even in the stacked 2003 draft. Just be glad Edm opted for the immortal MA Pouiliot instead of Kes.

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Old
06-17-2014, 05:21 PM
  #875
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Not sure if you guys already know but there are a few videos of Jordan Subban's training on facebook on this page if you guys are interested https://www.facebook.com/laylor.perf...ation=timeline

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