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The 2010 draft is holding us back

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Old
06-15-2014, 01:51 PM
  #26
KingWantsCup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Oh, it's this thread, again.

Every draft where we somehow didn't draft the best future superstar available is holding us back ever I guess. Why didn't Sather draft Jamie Benn in 2007?
I demand answers!




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06-15-2014, 01:53 PM
  #27
haveandare
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IMO, there are few things less valuable to dwell on than drafts in hindsight. Especially when we start talking about who would have helped most in a cup run that was not even close to being on anybody's radar at the time of the draft.

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06-15-2014, 01:58 PM
  #28
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Normally, I can get behind the idea of "hindsight is 20/20" because the draft IS ultimately a bit of a crapshoot.

But in this instance, foresight was also 20/20. There is no doubt the Rangers reached, tried to get too cute and wound up outsmarting themselves.

I am holding out hope for McIlrath, don't get me wrong. But 4 years later this absolutely looks like a blown pick, when it REALLY didn't have to be. We are not talking about passing on Jamie Benn in the 4th round.

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06-15-2014, 01:58 PM
  #29
NickyFotiu
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I wonder if McIlrath was a Torts pick. He just does not fit the skill team that Sather has been trying to create ever since he traded for Nash. Drafting any player top 10, much less a defenseman in part because of his fighting skills in a league where fighting is going the way of the dodo is painfully stupid.
The coaches, Slats, scouts, etc all give their input. The Rangers were planning on Dylan all along based on Gordie Clark's recommendation in that draft BUT when Fowler fell Slats gave Gordie Clark the option to change his pick. Gordie choose to stay with Dylan. Gordie made the final decision.

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06-15-2014, 02:07 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
As for everyone else, oh well. MTL could've had Chris Kreider and picked Louie Leblanc (rereading this, my point may not be too clear. editing before anybody says obviously that was a different draft). Teams blow it sometimes.
Montreal also drafted McDonagh, Pacioretty, and Subban with their first 3 picks 2 years prior to that. Some teams also just draft consistently better than the Rangers do, and some teams change the direction of their whole team with 1 draft.

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06-15-2014, 02:09 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
The coaches, Slats, scouts, etc all give their input. The Rangers were planning on Dylan all along based on Gordie Clark's recommendation in that draft BUT when Fowler fell Slats gave Gordie Clark the option to change his pick. Gordie choose to stay with Dylan. Gordie made the final decision.
Ha!

I knew the guy was a jerk!

Sather rules!

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06-15-2014, 02:14 PM
  #32
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The draft is a crapshoot. Sometimes you get lucky with a Lundqvist sometimes things dont and you get a Cherepanov. If you had the luxury of looking back four years and picking, no kidding, you'd never make a mistake.

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06-15-2014, 02:17 PM
  #33
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The Kings have only graduated Toffoli from 2010. Chicago has graduated nobody. Boston got nothing of real relevance from 2008 and 2009. The draft is an inexact science and if one or two drafts without anything to show for it was enough to sink a team then nobody would ever win the Stanley Cup. Because no team drafts well every time.

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06-15-2014, 02:33 PM
  #34
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Says you he would have been gone by #12



Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Still a massive project for a top 10 pick.

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06-15-2014, 02:36 PM
  #35
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The Kings have only graduated Toffoli from 2010. Chicago has graduated nobody. Boston got nothing of real relevance from 2008 and 2009. The draft is an inexact science and if one or two drafts without anything to show for it was enough to sink a team then nobody would ever win the Stanley Cup. Because no team drafts well every time.
At least your first rounder actually signed with your team ,, Hawks pick is about to walk away as a FA after the Hawks waited 4 years for him to finish NCAA career

Hawks have very little to show from what once appeared to be promising draft

D Stephen Johns (60th overall)
C/W Joakim Nordstrom (90th overall)

At least you guys are getting hits on some of your higher picks thru years (Stepan , Del Zotto , Kreider and Miller)

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06-15-2014, 02:58 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
At least your first rounder actually signed with your team ,, Hawks pick is about to walk away as a FA after the Hawks waited 4 years for him to finish NCAA career

Hawks have very little to show from what once appeared to be promising draft

D Stephen Johns (60th overall)
C/W Joakim Nordstrom (90th overall)

At least you guys are getting hits on some of your higher picks thru years (Stepan , Del Zotto , Kreider and Miller)
It's like............you don't always have a successful draft? Who would've thought?

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06-15-2014, 03:02 PM
  #37
Barbara Underhill
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So if it wasn't for that 2010 draft we'd have multiple cups?

We just lost in the finals to a very good team, if we got that far while being held back by one draft then that's pretty damn good.

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06-15-2014, 03:09 PM
  #38
stan the caddy
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Not drafting Fowler was dumb then and it's even dumber now.

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06-15-2014, 03:12 PM
  #39
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If McIlrath ends up being a nasty mother****er of a Top 4 defenseman, is it still holding us back? Kid is exactly what we needed against LA.

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06-15-2014, 03:13 PM
  #40
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If you subscribe to revisionist/hindsight history, you could blame Del Zotto for 2010. Say we drafted Jordan Eberle instead of DZ. We'd have - not an elite #1 center - but a #1 center. In 2010, we'd still have need for a PMD/PPQ and Fowler would probably have been selected. I want to point out, if Fowler was on our current roster - say instead of Klein - I still don't think we win vs LA. Eberle however IIRC is pretty clutch. I remember being a lot of people wanted Toffolli as much as people wanting Getzlaf. Outside the 1st two rounds of 2010, that draft has shown to be pretty barren.

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06-15-2014, 03:15 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
At least your first rounder actually signed with your team ,, Hawks pick is about to walk away as a FA after the Hawks waited 4 years for him to finish NCAA career

Hawks have very little to show from what once appeared to be promising draft

D Stephen Johns (60th overall)
C/W Joakim Nordstrom (90th overall)

At least you guys are getting hits on some of your higher picks thru years (Stepan , Del Zotto , Kreider and Miller)
uh what? Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews? Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook? right there you have 4 of the best players in the game and a very big part of the Hawk's 2 cup wins. poor Chicago....

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06-15-2014, 03:19 PM
  #42
stan the caddy
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
If you subscribe to revisionist/hindsight history, you could blame Del Zotto for 2010. Say we drafted Jordan Eberle instead of DZ. We'd have - not an elite #1 center - but a #1 center. In 2010, we'd still have need for a PMD/PPQ and Fowler would probably have been selected. I want to point out, if Fowler was on our current roster - say instead of Klein - I still don't think we win vs LA. Eberle however IIRC is pretty clutch. I remember being a lot of people wanted Toffolli as much as people wanting Getzlaf. Outside the 1st two rounds of 2010, that draft has shown to be pretty barren.
It's not really revisionist history because Fowler was widely regarded as a top/the top defenseman in the draft. Somehow he fell to us and the logic used by some people was, "well, he fell to us so there must be something wrong with him."

I don't agree that it's cost us Cups or anything but holy ****, what a draft disaster that was. I remember being so happy that Fowler was on the board and then BOOOOOOM, McIlrath, because we need FIGHTS!!!

The joke is one of the reasons why this years team did so well was because Sather finally didn't have to have some no talent goon in the lineup.

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06-15-2014, 03:21 PM
  #43
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And the reason the Kings had free parking in front of Hank all series is because none of our defensemen can clear the crease. I can't WAIT for the smorgasbord of crow this kid is gonna serve.

He's ****ing 22.

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06-15-2014, 03:25 PM
  #44
NickyFotiu
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Cam Fowlers physicality would have been the answer for us against the Kings big forwards said nobody that ever watched him play in his own zone.

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06-15-2014, 03:28 PM
  #45
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The Rangers have a reasonably strong possession team, but still struggle to score goals. They generated chance after chance in the OT periods, but seem to have a distinct lack of finishers. While the first rounds of the 2003 and 2006 drafts can be blamed for awful first round choices, 2010 stands out. We missed on more than just our first rounder, had a higher pick than any year since 2004, and are left with fewer questions of how different selections would've affected our current roster thanks to recency. This is our 2010 draft:



Obviously the McIlrath pick sticks out as the most obvious target since everybody here wanted Tarasenko at the time. They also missed out on Schwartz, Fowler, and several other interesting prospects such as Bjugstad, Etem, Kuznetsov, and Coyle. McIlrath may ultimately make it as a third pairing defenseman, but the chances of him becoming a top level player are not strong.

McIlrath was not our only questionable 2010 pick. Second rounder Christian Thomas has already been flipped for Danny Kristo, who had a mediocre first AHL season. After the Rangers selected Thomas, the Ducks and Kings used their picks on Devante Smith-Pelly and Tyler Toffoli respectively (Phoenix chose Oscar Lindberg, who we of course dealt Werek for). Toffoli is an especially painful miss considering he just helped beat us in the Final.

Of our later picks, only sixth rounder Jesper Fast appears to have a strong shot of being an NHL player. Andrew Yogan may develop into a bottom six grinder if everything goes right.

The 2010 draft probably represented our most recent chance to add true impact talent(s) to our forward crop. It also left us scrambling for expensive scoring talent and added depth in the Nash and Gaborik deals. While not every pick can be expected to pan out, we missed on high end pieces with both our first and second rounders in 2010.
But in may 2010, Sather got you Zucc as an UFA. It help a little, doesn't it?

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Old
06-15-2014, 03:28 PM
  #46
stan the caddy
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Cam Fowlers physicality would have been the answer for us against the Kings big forwards said nobody that ever watched him play in his own zone.
Cam Fowler's speed would have been a HUGE difference maker considering the Kings dump and forecheck and make your defenders win/try to win races all game long. Girardi's horrible play and turnovers was all a result of his lack of speed. For whatever reason people talk about the Kings like it was all size, the reason why their forecheck works is because they win races to the corners. And a major reason for those big hit totals is because they play chase which requires hitting.

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06-15-2014, 03:32 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Cam Fowler's speed would have been a HUGE difference maker considering the Kings dump and forecheck and make your defenders win/try to win races all game long. Girardi's horrible play and turnovers was all a result of his lack of speed. For whatever reason people talk about the Kings like it was all size, the reason why their forecheck works is because they win races to the corners. And a major reason for those big hit totals is because they play chase which requires hitting.
Cam Fowler often plays the left side. Dan plays the right side so Dans bad play is kind of irrelavant. Cam Fowler is defiitely not better than McD. His competition would be Staal and Moore. Fowler is not faster than Moore but he is a better dman. Staal had a rough series but is 2000 times more physical than Fowler.

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06-15-2014, 03:37 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Cam fowler plays the left side. Dan plays the right side so Dans bad play is kind of irrelavant. Cam Fowler is defiitely not better than McD. His competition would be Staal and Moore. Fowler is not faster than Moore but he is a better dman. Staal had a rough series but is 2000 times more physical than Fowler.
I'm not trying to say swap Girardi with Fowler. I'm using Girardi as an example because he was our one defender that got completely destroyed in that series and it was all because he wasn't quick enough. Fowler on the other hand is one of the best skaters in the whole league. He would have been a huge asset in that series. It wasn't about physical play from our dmen, it was being too slow and a lack of conditioning that killed us. While usually really good at 1 on 1 d, Girardi and Staal were slow to every puck causing a bunch of turnovers. Girardi could barely get the puck out of the zone he was so slow.

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06-15-2014, 03:42 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
I'm not trying to say swap Girardi with Fowler. I'm using Girardi as an example because he was our one defender that got completely destroyed in that series and it was all because he wasn't quick enough. Fowler on the other hand is one of the best skaters in the whole league. He would have been a huge asset in that series. It wasn't about physical play from our dmen, it was being too slow and a lack of conditioning that killed us. While usually really good at 1 on 1 d, Girardi and Staal were slow to every puck causing a bunch of turnovers. Girardi could barely get the puck out of the zone he was so slow.
Speed could have played a role at times but most of the Rangers dmen are very mobile. Dan did get burned by some speed a couple of times but many of his turnovers were with the puck on his stick and no Kings player within 10 feet of him. He just had a really bad series. He seemed like his confidence was shell shocked. I have been a NY Ranger fan for decades. I know how some Ranger fans would react to Fowler just letting guys stand around in the crease. Fowler is a very good dman but he is also one of the least physical dmen in the league.

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06-15-2014, 03:49 PM
  #50
stan the caddy
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Speed could have played a role at times but most of the Rangers dmen are very mobile. Dan did get burned by some speed a couple of times but many of his turnovers were with the puck on his stick and no Kings player within 10 feet of him. He just had a really bad series. He seemed like his confidence was shell shocked. I have been a NY Ranger fan for decades. I know how some Ranger fans would react to Fowler just letting guys stand around in the crease. Fowler is a very good dman but he is also one of the least physical dmen in the league.
Girardi didn't really get burned, he's actually really good 1 on 1 with a guy coming down the wing. He's always got good positioning and he blocks a ton of shots. Where he gets ****ing abused is on the boards because he too slow to get there in time when teams are dumping on him. If he's constantly laboring to just get to a puck and chip it up he's going to turn it over a bunch and he did. Those plays are so much easier for a guy like Fowler because he's never slow to the puck. You dump it on him and he's going to win his races.

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